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Knife sharpening-how fine?

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Hi All,

 

I'm in the process of sharpening my Hattori knives (VG-10) and have gone up to 1000 grit stones and they're quite sharp. I was curious if I should go finer though using wet stones or strops. I can go up to 10000 grit but not sure what the best balance is between polish and tooth.

Thanks for any thoughts or advice.

 

Joe

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I reset the edge on my Shun last week using 220, 800 and finishing on a 3000. Edge seems nice, especially for a first try. I'd recommend looking at http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/ if you want to find a lot more info on sharpening and steel types - not sure that the volume of knowledge on egullet can really stand up (in the case of knives and knife sharpening at least) to that site.

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I have a Hattori petty w. VG10 core. I don't go higher than 1200 grit ANSI, which is about 2000 for some Japanese stones. Around 6 microns for the grit. I don't need extremely fine cuts, and 1200 is more than enough. I've tried stropping w. diamond paste, 3 microns, and the results weren't worth the effort.

 

From what I've read, VG10 won't hold an edge at 10000 grit, and may not even take one that fine.

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The sharper the edge, the quicker it gets dulled, and the easier it can be damaged.

 

Don't need to go sharper than sharp enough for your kind of cutting.

 

Some knife sites have a tendency to advise you to make your knives "scary sharp"

 

 

dcarch

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I do a first pass on a 1000g then either jump to 2000g or 4000g to finish. All sharpening ends with the burr removed a a few passes on a basal wood strop charged with a 0.125 micron diamond spray

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As Darch says, there is such a thing as too sharp.  You want a little 'tooth' to the blade.  If it cuts what you need to cut, it's time to stop sharpening.  I actually use a canoe shaped stone like my mom used 70 years ago and find it does as good and as quick a job as any thing else I've tired.

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Toothy acts like a serrated edge. It's a slippery slope. I want to feel nothing as my knife pass through the item to be cut. As if I was cutting through air. Anything less is dull.[emoji39]

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Toothy acts like a serrated edge. It's a slippery slope. I want to feel nothing as my knife pass through the item to be cut. As if I was cutting through air. Anything less is dull.[emoji39]

 

I want just enough tooth for tomatoes to be a breeze.


Porthos Potwatcher
The Once and Future Cook

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I want just enough tooth for tomatoes to be a breeze.

Contrary to popular belief, a serrated or toothy knife is not better on tomatoes than a sharp one, but it is better than a dull knife.

 

Tomatoes are mindlessly easy to cut with a well sharpened knife.

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on knifeforum there are a lot of threads on there being a micro-toothy-ness on knives and if perfectly smooth even when highly magnified

 

is a mistake as the knive then slips etc

 

I use the edgePro.  with a very light touch and experience, using those stones, I doubt Ill get better cutting in the kitchen setting on a

 

plastic-poly board above 600  using the EP numbers  I do go to 1000 on those stones as i enjoy doing it.

 

you are cutting food, not shaving.  still the sharpening when carefully done w any system you enjoy is :

 

cheaper and much more effective than Psycho-Therapy.

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on knifeforum there are a lot of threads on there being a micro-toothy-ness on knives and if perfectly smooth even when highly magnified

is a mistake as the knive then slips etc

I use the edgePro. with a very light touch and experience, using those stones, I doubt Ill get better cutting in the kitchen setting on a

plastic-poly board above 600 using the EP numbers I do go to 1000 on those stones as i enjoy doing it.

you are cutting food, not shaving. still the sharpening when carefully done w any system you enjoy is :

cheaper and much more effective than Psycho-Therapy.

Few people are good enough with a stone to get their knives smooth on a microscopic level. If that's what he meant, my mistake.

I use the EdgePro as well, though I still only use the 320 and 220 stones included. I think I'll get the 800 now, just to see if there is much of a difference. If there is, I doubt it will be noticeable during normal use.

In fact, I just finished sharpening. As usual, the tomatoes didn't stand a chance.

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EP has a 'new' ( not so new now ) 400 stone that replaces their 320.   I called and spoke w the owner about this as i wanted a second 320

 

as I use the second stone to keep each grit completely flat   just a little rub under running water

 

its a stunning stone.

 

800 is new to me, it seems to be made by 3d party  let me know how you like it.

 

consider a second stone of the ones you commonly use to keep all stones ultra flat, which makes a world of a difference.

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EP has a 'new' ( not so new now ) 400 stone that replaces their 320.   I called and spoke w the owner about this as i wanted a second 320

 

as I use the second stone to keep each grit completely flat   just a little rub under running water

 

its a stunning stone.

 

800 is new to me, it seems to be made by 3d party  let me know how you like it.

 

consider a second stone of the ones you commonly use to keep all stones ultra flat, which makes a world of a difference.

So you just rub the stones (same grit) together under water? I was considering the leveling kit, but if this trick works, it would be about the same price, but I'd get backup stones.

 

What is so stunning about the 400?

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get two of each grit.  on the back mark 1 and 2 on the steel ends of #1  and 3 and 4 on the back of #2

 

you rotate the blanks if  you can remember each time or so from time to time when  you use them

 

when you are finished sharpening, rub the same grit stones under running water to remove the metal filings and now each stone is also

 

flat.  works for me and I now have a lifetime of stones.

 

the 400 for some reason 'cuts' much more efficiently and when starting fresh  ( clean of filings ) get you thought that grit much faster

 

the owner said something about a different porosity.  as there were no more 320 I got two and that's the first stone I use

 

once my knives have been EP's for the first time.

 

I looked at the 800 and am interested, but I have 2 600's and 2 1000 so its a stretch.

 

of note  ( and this may only be cosmetic ) its the same color as the 400 so I wonder if it has that porosity


Edited by rotuts (log)

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So what is the problem with curved stone?

 

dcarch


Edited by dcarch (log)

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well, Im no expert

 

:blink:

 

the blade is flat, so the stone should be also be flat.

 

it might just be that its easier that way.

 

EP now makes blanks that are not as wide for curved blades.  

 

you would have to go to the EP site and see the vids which are good in the sense that they give you an idea what what the stones

 

that move do to your blade.

 

a flat stone just might get the job better done sooner so you can 

 

1 ) pull a cork

 

2 ) have some Methode  Rotuts

 

what they really need is a circular stone for those curved blade

 

I had a lot of things like that when I shaped my tools for making rotary items like bowls and turned " legs '

 

not chicken legs, wood legs.


Edited by rotuts (log)

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1. Isn't it a nice thing to have a convex edge? You get that with a curved stone.

 

2. Besides, if you look at the geometry, a highly curved stone will give you almost imperceptible angle change on the knife's edges.

 

dcarch

 

Sharpeningstone_1_zps9f35c502.jpg 

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so many Excellent Points

 

 

dcarch

 

how ever, at a certain point of all of are lives, we might not have those fine motor skills

 

this might be a 1 year   10 years  or my age.

 

the EP is a simply  a ( brilliant )  jig  ie something that helps you do something more simply and ultra precise 

 

than what you might do by "hand"

 

the actually edge on the EP system it beveled w one very light hone on a ceramic stone.

 

you have to look at their vids

 

very light is the key.


Edited by rotuts (log)
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the EP is a simply  a ( brilliant )  jig  ie something that helps you do something more simply and ultra precise 

 

than what you might do by "hand"

 

The EP allows for very repeatable edge angles. It also, once you are experienced with it, allows for fairly quick work on a particular knife. In June I went through both of my regular knife rolls and my mini-roll with six paring knives in it to sharpen them all (about 15 knives) in somewhere between 2 and 21/2 hours.

 

So far as the tooth/no tooth discussion: I have not done the level of research that Chad Ward did to produce his book An Edge In The Kitchen. He made a good case for a small bit of tooth that makes sense to me. With regards to the EP, I start with the 220 stone to raise a burr, then a quick few passes with the 400 and finish with the 600 then a quick "steeling" on the ceramic steel that is part of the kit. I am happy with the results and the people who use the knives I supply for  my ren faire kitchens are happy with the knives. If something else makes someone else happy then go with it.


Edited by Porthos (log)

Porthos Potwatcher
The Once and Future Cook

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and you enjoyed it immensely ?

 

:biggrin:


Edited by rotuts (log)

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Yes I did. :smile:


Porthos Potwatcher
The Once and Future Cook

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you don't just get the 'blade of your dreams'

 

you get ultra satisfaction.

 

ultra

 

you can get this free hand, for sure, I don't doubt that

 

I did for a long time.

 

now I I can get that satisfaction, and have the Inner Strength to ' pull a cork " or look into the 

 

PureFizz.

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So what is the problem with curved stone?

dcarch

you won't sharpen evenly if you have high and low points on the stone
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I really have to chuckle at some of this.

 

it goes back to the condition of knife-nuts.

 

"dished" stones - yup, they will not maintain a consistent angle. 

does it make a difference?

see:  how big is your dished.

see:  knife nuts.

 

....but it's toothed, Jim!

anyone looked under magnification at those coarse, fine, finer, finest, mini-micro-nano serrations..... _after_ steeling a knife?

 

it's sharp and does the job.

it's not sharp enough for the job.

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