Safety when infusing tobacco

[Susanne Hindle Kher]

I'm working on a ganache recipe that uses pipe tobacco infused either in water or with the cream. I've pulled together a few recipes and they sure vary widely on the amount of tobacco to use. None of them address how much nicotine actually ends up in the ganache - and I read a post (http://www.artofdrink.com/blog/nicotini-tobacco-infusions/) that makes me want to be absolutely sure I know this before offering it to anyone.

 

Do any of you have experience with this? I'd love to hear your thoughts. I tasted a truffle from Vosges that had a tobacco infusion and it was good - barely noticable, just enough. 

[gfweb]

I'd say be careful. Tobacco varies in the amount of nicotine it contains. I don't know how anyone could tell you what is safe. 

 

You'll get advice on the order of  "I did it by this method and nobody died". 

 

The scheme of a potentially safe method would be a technique that extracts flavor but no nicotine. According to Wikipedia nicotine base is soluble in alcohol and ether but not water unless in its base form.  So in theory one could manipulate conditions to do an aqueous extract of tobacco that would get flavor, but not nicotine.  Or you  could ether extract tobacco to remove nicotine, and then aqueous extract for flavors.

 

Assuming the flavor is water soluble.

 

Or maybe just buy  tobacco flavoring.

[Susanne Hindle Kher]

I'd say be careful. Tobacco varies in the amount of nicotine it contains. I don't know how anyone could tell you what is safe. 

 

You'll get advice on the order of  "I did it by this method and nobody died". 

 

The scheme of a potentially safe method would be a technique that extracts flavor but no nicotine. According to Wikipedia nicotine base is soluble in alcohol and ether but not water unless in its base form.  So in theory one could manipulate conditions to do an aqueous extract of tobacco that would get flavor, but not nicotine.  Or you  could ether extract tobacco to remove nicotine, and then aqueous extract for flavors.

 

Assuming the flavor is water soluble.

 

Or maybe just buy  tobacco flavoring.

 

That's interesting! One recipe I found called for a water infusion using quite a lot of pipe tobacco and the other called for infusing the tobacco in the cream, at much lower quantity. I think I've read enough to make me want to hold off until I figure this out better. Another option *maybe* is using my smoke gun that I use for foods...stick some tobacco in there (normally uses wood chips) and see if it will give a smoky quality to either the chocolate or cream or the ganache (that actually retains its aroma...).

 

Thanks for the thoughts. Customer survival is key to success!

[AlaMoi]

run, don't walk, from this idea.

 

nicotine is soluable in water.  it's a pH thing.

 

an old fashioned insecticide is tobacco steeped in water - multiple fatalities involved.

 

nicotine is exceedingly readily absorbed thru skin/membranes.

it affects the central nervious system and it can easily be lethal - we're talking milligram level amounts.

 

I suppose there's a difference between a tobacco flavor and nicotine poisioning.  without expert lab experience / analysis, I do not know how one can extract 'the flavor' without 'the nicotine' - nicotine is easily extracted by polar and non-polar solvents - meaning water, alcohol, ether, .... rafts of 'other'

[gfweb]

Yes. The "pH thing" was what I was referring to when I said "manipulate conditions" in my extraction scheme. I think that it could be done safely and expensively by a good chemist.

 

But why bother?  Too risky and for what?

[Mjx]

I'm working on a ganache recipe that uses pipe tobacco infused either in water or with the cream. I've pulled together a few recipes and they sure vary widely on the amount of tobacco to use. None of them address how much nicotine actually ends up in the ganache - and I read a post (http://www.artofdrink.com/blog/nicotini-tobacco-infusions/) that makes me want to be absolutely sure I know this before offering it to anyone.

 

Do any of you have experience with this? I'd love to hear your thoughts. I tasted a truffle from Vosges that had a tobacco infusion and it was good - barely noticable, just enough. 

 

I've done this on several occasions, and posted about it in another discussion (http://forums.egullet.org/topic/135873-christmas-2010-sweets/?p=1774604). Just a pinch of tobacco gives a lovely scent, without risks to flavour or health (well below levels that are toxic, you get an unpalatable bitterness).

 

The monograph I linked to in that post was extremely helpful, and as you can see in the monograph, the amount of tobacco required to give a distinct and pleasant scent is way, way below what would be toxic, even for an extremely small human (and of course, mention the presence of tobacco, so those who should not, or prefer to not consume even a trace of tobacco can do so).

 

Make sure to use fresh tobacco, so you get maximum scent from the smallest possible quantity, and if you use pipe tobacco, make sure that the ingredients don't include something that should not be ingested, even at low doses; if there's no clear ingredient list, I'd recommend using plain, organically-grown tobacco, instead.

[Susanne Hindle Kher]

I've done this on several occasions, and posted about it in another discussion (http://forums.egullet.org/topic/135873-christmas-2010-sweets/?p=1774604). Just a pinch of tobacco gives a lovely scent, without risks to flavour or health (well below levels that are toxic, you get an unpalatable bitterness).

 

The monograph I linked to in that post was extremely helpful, and as you can see in the monograph, the amount of tobacco required to give a distinct and pleasant scent is way, way below what would be toxic, even for an extremely small human (and of course, mention the presence of tobacco, so those who should not, or prefer to not consume even a trace of tobacco can do so).

 

Make sure to use fresh tobacco, so you get maximum scent from the smallest possible quantity, and if you use pipe tobacco, make sure that the ingredients don't include something that should not be ingested, even at low doses; if there's no clear ingredient list, I'd recommend using plain, organically-grown tobacco, instead.

 

Thanks! How did customers react?

[Mjx]

Thanks! How did customers react?

 

You're welcome. I've made these for friends, not customers (I don't do this professionally), and they went over incredibly well. The inital reaction has been 'What?! You put WHAT in the truffles?', then a tiny, cautious bite, then a bigger bite, then reaching for a lot more. There are never any left over. I think the postive reaction is due to the fact that there is often a tobacco-y note in chocolate, and adding a little tobacco amplifies this, resulting in something that is more complex, without there being a distinct, separate note.

[rotuts]

the flavor of tabacco might smoke might contain what  your a looking into

 

look else ware

 

Nicotine is a neuro transmitter which is why people get addicted to it.

 

nicotine is a lethal item if ingested in excess.  

 

1/2 of an ordinary 'smoke' is enough to kill a small child.

 

good news  they will throw it up,

 

what about Vanilla for your project ?

[teonzo]

The link provided by Mjx is a good resource to extimate how safe you can be. Remember people eat just a fraction of your batch, this comes in your favour. For example if you make 80 pralines from 2 g of tobacco, then each praline will contain the nicotine extracted from 0.025 g of tobacco (and it won't be ALL the nicotine included in that 0.025 g of tobacco).

I used tobacco in various desserts, including a praline. The recipe was 200 g tobacco infusion (220 g cream, 2 g tobacco, cold infused for 12 hours), 320 g dark chocolate 70%. They tasted quite strong, you can halve the tobacco.

 

 

 

Teo

[ChrisTaylor]

Just kicking this out there--I know nothing about tobacco and even less about pastry--but why not achieve the flavour through alternative means? I think Perique (the liqueur, not the tobacco) is nice. It's made with tobacco. Presumably the people that manufacture this fine liqueur know what they're about. The fact you're permitted to import into a nanny state like Australia suggests they do. In the same way people make, say, a Strega cream with which they fill cannoli, why not make a Perique cream? You get the flavour, plus the booze (as a flavour-carrier) and you don't need to stress about killing the people that pay your bills.

[Susanne Hindle Kher]

Just kicking this out there--I know nothing about tobacco and even less about pastry--but why not achieve the flavour through alternative means? I think Perique (the liqueur, not the tobacco) is nice. It's made with tobacco. Presumably the people that manufacture this fine liqueur know what they're about. The fact you're permitted to import into a nanny state like Australia suggests they do. In the same way people make, say, a Strega cream with which they fill cannoli, why not make a Perique cream? You get the flavour, plus the booze (as a flavour-carrier) and you don't need to stress about killing the people that pay your bills.

I love your ideas Chris, thanks!

[philippeberthoud]

Just had the swiss kitchen talk about "smoking" Had a demo of a member of the swiss culinary team presenting Chocolate Cigars with smoke" You will find a foto on swisskitchentalk.blogspot.ch incl. recipe. Recipe in German. Let me know if you need the translation. Ps. Also had Francois Benzi - inventor of foodpairing with heston blumenthal. Greetings, Philippe

[KennethT]

I had a dish at El Cellar de Can Roca years ago that had ice cream that was infused with cigar smoke... When I tasted it, it blew my mind - the cigar smoke aroma was powerful and intoxicating (not actually intoxicating - but an expression) and stayed in my head for the rest of teh day in a good way... I had once found a video of how they did it, but can't find it now - but this link gives you the basic idea...

http://www.molecularrecipes.com/ice-creams/cigar-smoke-ice-cream/

[Susanne Hindle Kher]

Just had the swiss kitchen talk about "smoking" Had a demo of a member of the swiss culinary team presenting Chocolate Cigars with smoke" You will find a foto on swisskitchentalk.blogspot.ch incl. recipe. Recipe in German. Let me know if you need the translation. Ps. Also had Francois Benzi - inventor of foodpairing with heston blumenthal. Greetings, Philippe

Thanks Phillipe. Looks like the 3 variations each are applying smoke to a different ingredient (cream, chocolate or both). So, I am thinking the smoke is applied as cold smoke, rather than infusing in the cream?  This probably would not have health effects - was this mentioned. 

 

By the way, this is great blog (luckily, I speak German as I'm from Austria...partly). Thanks again!

[Susanne Hindle Kher]

I had a dish at El Cellar de Can Roca years ago that had ice cream that was infused with cigar smoke... When I tasted it, it blew my mind - the cigar smoke aroma was powerful and intoxicating (not actually intoxicating - but an expression) and stayed in my head for the rest of teh day in a good way... I had once found a video of how they did it, but can't find it now - but this link gives you the basic idea...

http://www.molecularrecipes.com/ice-creams/cigar-smoke-ice-cream/

That's pretty awesome, great photos. I am getting the impression that there aren't health hazards with smoking, like there would be with an actual infusion of the leaves in a liquid. I appreciate this link.

[Mjx]

Keep in mind that smoking and infusing will give two different flavours (which may be perfect for what you have in mind). For whatever it's worth, I take worrying to spectacular levels, which was the reason I researched the safety of a tobacco infusion; if the results had indicated that there was any risk, I wouldn't have touched it.

[Susanne Hindle Kher]

Keep in mind that smoking and infusing will give two different flavours (which may be perfect for what you have in mind). For whatever it's worth, I take worrying to spectacular levels, which was the reason I researched the safety of a tobacco infusion; if the results had indicated that there was any risk, I wouldn't have touched it.

 

Thank you!!