Freeze Dryers and Freeze Dried Food (Part 1)

[MelissaH]

That makes sense, I'll give it another go using vinegar this evening. Still doesn't accomplish what I'd hoped for though. I wasn't worried about being able to turn it back into a hot sauce, I was hoping to see a dry powder that still tasted like the original sauce, albeit concentrated.

 

If you're looking for something you can just add water to, what about mixing the hot sauce powder with sodium acetate?

[Tim P.]

Just curious if any HR owners have oil appearing under their vacuum pumps. I do to not think it is coming from the vent.

It appears to be coming. from the shaft seal. It does not appear to be coming from the oil drain plug.

I just added about a quarter site glass full to get the oil level back up. I added about a 1/2 site glass full a few weeks back.

Every time. I talked to Scott Neville at HR and he said it's just the nature of a vacuum pump. When my pump first turns on it sprays and small amount out the oil de-mister. I just keep a paper towel over the de-mister and it solves the spray problem.

[huiray]

I don't have experience with freeze-drying trays and trays of foodstuff in the tray-type freeze dryers - but in my previous life where I used the manifold-type freeze dryers if there was substantial water in the oil after each run it meant the cooling cylinder was just not trapping water efficiently enough.  Vacuum that was not low enough would also tend to do this.  Water in the pump oil also tended to hurt the pump and reduce the vacuum pull of the pump...

[Mr. Mike]

TIP for filling Bags:

 

If you have a light n fluffy product or a lot of it to fill vac or mylar bags, here is a technique I use to make the filling go VERY fast with less spillage.  You can use this for filing any bag if you want.

 

I use a folding-pliable cutting mat.  I roll it up and put the smaller-cone end in the mouth of the bag.. let it expand slightly and then pour the product "down the chute: into the bag.  Fill til full.  "Rinse and repeat"  (joke)

 

I use this for anything that is hard to fill (small bags) or very light and "airey" product like scrambled egg mix, sour creme, grated cheese etc...

 

Makes the turn time very fast with very little to no loss due to spillage.

 

 

 

Hope this helps

 

Mr. Mike

Edited October 9, 2014 by Mr. Mike (log)

[Lisa Shock]

I just saw today's Ideas In Food and thought you might want to have a go at Moule-Sel.

[Kerry Beal]

I just saw today's Ideas In Food and thought you might want to have a go at Moule-Sel.

Not sure - might give a very different result that what they are after - we'd get crispy smoked mussels instead of chewy smoked mussels.  Of course if you dried them first as they have, then FD'd them - they would be easily powdered for sprinkling on things.

 

Smoked oysters are probably too oily to FD.

[Kerry Beal]

TIP for filling Bags:

 

If you have a light n fluffy product or a lot of it to fill vac or mylar bags, here is a technique I use to make the filling go VERY fast with less spillage.  You can use this for filing any bag if you want.

 

I use a folding-pliable cutting mat.  I roll it up and put the smaller-cone end in the mouth of the bag.. let it expand slightly and then pour the product "down the chute: into the bag.  Fill til full.  "Rinse and repeat"  (joke)

 

I use this for anything that is hard to fill (small bags) or very light and "airey" product like scrambled egg mix, sour creme, grated cheese etc...

 

Makes the turn time very fast with very little to no loss due to spillage.

 

IMG_4280.JPG

 

IMG_4284.JPG

 

Hope this helps

 

Mr. Mike

Excellent idea Mike.  I do something similar when filling bags with things like jelly beans or chocolate covered nuts.

[Kerry Beal]

Playing with my freeze dried cream cheese over here.

[Mr. Mike]

Made some chicken teriyaki-ginger marinade..-Home made -sauce.  And did some Guac.

 

The guac was straight out of the bag... already seasoned.. not to "my liking", but I didn't have time to doctor it up to the "Mr. Mike's Standards."

 

Pretty good tasting "as is" dried.

 

 

Did 5 lbs of cottage cheese.. Pretty tasty dried as well.

 

 

I see this thread is slowing down..

 

SO.. What's in YOUR dryer.?

 

Mr. Mike

Edited October 17, 2014 by Mr. Mike (log)

[Deryn]

Kerry is away, Mike so she can't contribute here right now (though she is using some of the products from her recent experiments in freeze-drying). I would love to contribute but don't have my FD yet - soon, I promise. Please keep posting your pictures and comments - I LOVE this thread and am drinking it all in. Thanks.

 

I appreciate very much you telling us what is good to eat in its freeze-dried form too, without reconstituting at all. I have all sorts of reasons for wanting a FD but 'food storage' for long periods is one of those, along with convenience for everyday eating, and just getting to play with new ideas in food, if you will.

Edited October 17, 2014 by Deryn (log)

[loosethreads]

I did some sliced tomatoes earlier this week and then did 4 dozen raw eggs. Last week I freeze dried some apple sauce ( no sugar added) and found the results interesting. The flavor was very good. The crunch was acceptable (my grandson calls them apple crackers). However, the color was kind of a pinkish tan and did not look too appetizing!

Next week I want to get a few meals done (stew and chili) for my guys who are leaving for hunting soon.

So far that's it!

[Kerry Beal]

I did some sliced tomatoes earlier this week and then did 4 dozen raw eggs. Last week I freeze dried some apple sauce ( no sugar added) and found the results interesting. The flavor was very good. The crunch was acceptable (my grandson calls them apple crackers). However, the color was kind of a pinkish tan and did not look too appetizing!

Next week I want to get a few meals done (stew and chili) for my guys who are leaving for hunting soon.

So far that's it!

How thinly did you spread the applesauce?  Like the idea of 'apple crackers'.

[Mr. Mike]

KA-runchy Cheese:

 

I've done a LOT of fine shredded cheese.. the grandkids, 1 and 3 just LOVED the dried cheese... it's a mexi blend- fine grate.  The 3 y/o calls it "crunchy cheese"

the 1 y/o is a PICKEY eater and SHE would ask for more of the cheese...of which is amaizing.... she prefers cookies and chocolate over anything.. she sees a "sweet bag" she's ALL over it..

 

Anyway... I put abput 1-2 tbl in a vac bag and it's the "healty snack" easy to carry and use.  I cut down and seal a vac bag to about 1.5 in by 4" wide and seal with the cheese inside.  Cut the short end off the bag and it disperses like a "straw".  Easy peasy.

 

I will say that it is pretty good.

 

Mr Mike

[Mr. Mike]

Liq. Eggs TIPS

 

If you are going to do a liq. egg product.. like scrambled egg mix.. you will want to freeze it in the tray first (flat) as the "slant" of the machine will let the liq. product flow to the downhill end and possibly over flow.  No.. I didn't  have that clean up problem...just adverted it before it was a problem.

 

Three trays is the max. you want to do with the liq. eg product.  Four trays will ovehelm the machine with ice.

 

The picure above with the flex cutting board is the liq. eggs I dried and I useed the flex board to fill the bags. ..hope that helps.

 

Mr. Mike

[Mr. Mike]

Lunch meat:

 

I buy my bulk stuff from a place called "Resturant Depot" GREAT way to buy in bulk.  It's not open for the "public" but if you have a food related "bidness" you can open up an account.  I opened up mine under another business... I "cater" stuff to my customers to get my membership and I buy for myself..  Meats are CHEAP.. like lunch meats... 3.50-4.00/ lb for name brand stuff.

 

Anyway.. I'll go and look at the discount shelf and but stuff even more reduced due to a "leaker" lose seal cryo vac or a "soon to be out of date" product... anthing like angus tenderloin to lunch meats.

 

SO.. I bought (6) 8-10 lbs of various turkey breast meats.. hand sliced them and dried them..here they are.

 

 

 

Also did some homemade Teriyaki ginger maridated pork... THAT was tasty good...

 

 

The wifee likes to snack on the various meats and dried eggs on the way to work

 

Mr. Mike

Edited October 18, 2014 by Mr. Mike (log)

[Deryn]

Question for you FD'er pros - When you FD anything that can oxidize quickly (avocadoes, apple slices, etc.) do you dip in acidulated water first? The avocado pics you have posted are so pristinely green and beautiful, but, I would think that they should have oxidized somewhat before they actually got too cold for that process to happen unless you dipped them after peeling/slicing?

[dbinokc]

Mike,

thanks for the tips. I tried a few slices of already cooked port last week. I was not really impressed with the results after rehydration. It came out a little tough once rehydrated. I probably will not try it again, unless I do pork dices that I can through in a recipe.I did have some leftover precooked stew meat taking up space in the freezer that I dried last week. Those came out nicely. and are not too bad just eaten dry. Almost like kibbles for people.

 

Deryn,

So far I have just bought presliced apples from Sams, which  being pre-sliced and  not paying for the weight of the core, is not too bad of a deal IMO. When I do some whole fruit, I have some  fruit saver powder that I will use to keep it from browning before it freezes.

Edited October 18, 2014 by dbinokc (log)

[huiray]

I would like to ask a general question.

 

How do you view these freeze-dried ingredients you make?  Are they "preserved versions" (no more than that) of "fresh" ingredients?  Are they just a form of "stuff you would eat" held for longer?  Are they stuff that are "less fresh and less desirable than fresh" ingredients?  Are they stuff that happily has more concentrated flavors in some cases but are still 'not the fresh stuff preferred'?  Or are they separate ingredients in their own right?

 

I ask because there is often a perception that "dried foodstuff" is a poor substitute for the fresh/real thing in Western cuisine, whereas many things in "Asian" cuisine (E/SE Asian in particular) value the dried ingredients as ingredients in their own right, whereby they have developed a certain characteristic that is irreproducible if one were to try using the fresh ingredient which would then, in fact, be a poor substitute for the dried ingredient.  Taste, texture, etc.  For that matter, in Western cuisine I can't imagine that bacon would be regarded as a poor substitute for fresh pork anymore.  Ditto any number of salumi.  But what about "freeze-dried substances"??  Yes, I note Mr Mike describing how he and his family members munch on freeze-dried stuff and like the concentrated flavor in some cases and the convenience in other cases.  But what is the general perception of such things in regards to whether they are just a "not fresh" version o0f the real thing or as a separate thing in itself?

 

I've described elsewhere how various things in the Chinese kitchen such as dried bok choy or salted plums or pickled mustard are all separate ingredients in their own right and CANNOT be substituted with the fresh equivalent.  Or dried & salted cuttlefish or anchovies or fish.  Etc etc etc.  What about "freeze-dried ingredients" in a general sense?  Or would you say that the two things (freeze-drying vs salting/preserving/pickling) are not comparable?  If not, why not, in terms of "preservation"?  (I'm fishing for statements for why the two are not comparable too, if that is the case, if that is how you view it)

[Deryn]

Huiray .. I am not yet using a home FD, however, I have purchased both 'dehydrated' and 'freeze-dried' ingredients for years (and cooked with them), and have dehydrated my own as well.

 

I would say that 'all of the above' may be my answer to what seem to be the questions you pose throughout your post, depending on the type of food and the 'interests' of those who will use those foods. For me, freeze drying is a different method of food preservation with more long term benefits than canning or dehydrating. To your final query - is FD'ing 'comparable' to salting/pickling/preserving' - again I would say yes .. but not the same.

 

I do now, and intend to continue to, keep some FD'd items for very long periods of time - so it IS a very viable and successful method of preservation and for many FD'd items, not just a mere shadow of the fresh version. Those who have been posting their results on this thread have mentioned about many FD'd foods, when reconstituted they are very, very close to fresh..

 

I think dehydrating (regular drying of an ingredient) is a different beast from freeze-drying the same food, but not always - in terms of taste and reconstitutability (is that a word?). Dehydrating requires heat. Freeze drying doesn't (except to remove the water at very low temperatures - so not heat that could 'cook' something). In terms of nutritional, texture and longevity aspects, I think they are different generally. A freshly dehydrated food when reconstituted may have a similar fresh taste though its nutritional benefits may depend on how long and at how high a heat it was dehydrated. It will usually be much denser and have lost its recognizable shape in its dehydrated form (but natural form may resume if reconstituted), but not so if it is freeze-dried. It will generally not keep as well or long as a freeze-dried product.

 

Canning/pickling, smoking, and salting I think usually alter a food in its natural state more than FD'ing (or even dehydrating). And why not freeze-dry something that is already smoked, has been canned, salted or pickled? Therefore if you look at it this way they are completely different.

 

FD'd foods are both separate ingredients and just regular ingredients that you may or may not reconstitute.

 

Some FD'd items one will usually, if not always, reconstitute before eating or combining with other ingredients. Some FD items are very edible obviously in their FD state - and indeed, some of those won't ever reconstitute well anyway. Therefore some FD'd foods will be a 'poor substitute' for their fresh counterpart - and one would treat those as 'separate ingredients' in my opinion.

 

FD'ing preserves nutrients much better than dehydration does and the foods that are FD'd keep MUCH longer (up to 25 years if packed correctly).

 

And I believe someone posted about freeze-drying pickles. I don't know how those compare to the types of pickles you mention.

 

There are many more experiments to come I imagine from many of us - and we will probably get to trying enough Asian ingredients that we can give you a better answer down the line. If it is not fatty or very over-sweetened .. it is my understanding that we can hope to freeze dry it successfully. I hope to try working with a lot of seafood/shellfish (including salted and smoked ones) and will let you know if my opinion changes.

 

Not sure if that answers your question(s) - and this is merely one opinion. When I started writing this post I thought I understood how to attack the subject, but now I am not sure I was successful.

 

edited because I apparently can't spell the word that I am not even sure IS a word.

Edited October 18, 2014 by Deryn (log)

[Deryn]

dbinokc - Thanks. I am sure the 'pre-sliced apples' are dipped in something or have something added to them as well. The food saver powder is also a good idea - will keep that in mind. So I guess the answer is yes.

Edited October 18, 2014 by Deryn (log)

[Kerry Beal]

So far I haven't bothered with acidulated water or any other preservatives to prevent darkening - just cut and put in the freezer right away. 

[Kerry Beal]

My thoughts on Huiray's question - I think I'm just in the experimental stages of seeing what I get when I freeze dry things.  That will determine if I would consider rehydrating, using as an ingredient as is or something else.

 

When I reconstituted cantaloupe I didn't care for the texture.  So it will be used dry.  Loved the texture of the freeze dried yogurt - don't see reconstituting that unless I am desparate for some yogurt and don't have any.

 

Freeze dried citrus - crunched up and used dried - it's very different from fresh or from dehydrated. 

 

The egg whites, eggs - I can see using those as ingredients for baking.

 

Mashed potatoes - reconstitued for sure - going to be great for hubby to make meals for the rug rat if I'm away.

 

As to why freeze drying and other methods of preservation are not the same - I think for me it's the crunch.  Dehydrated red pepper is leathery, chewy little nubbins, freeze dried is crunchy - if I put each in chocoate I get two different products - and for me the crunchy is more edible than the leathery. 

[Mr. Mike]

My reasons for FD.  I use it as long term storage, short term usage and a possible business.

 

I've had toooooo many freezers go out and just RUIN a LOT of my game meats...along with the store bought items... I HAD 4 freezers.... I now have 3.. one just died last week.. was able to catch it in time... IF I didn't have the FR'r going.. I would have lost it all.  FDing makes me go into the garage almost daily.  I have one more freezer that doesn't defrost and collects ice at the bottom door area..

 

As soon as I process the contents out of it.. off the the salvage yard it goes.. then I'm down to 1 big and 1 small freezer.  SO...grilling, smoking and cooking some meats now to be in que for drying.

 

I'll have to buy another big freezer..at least one for the fall season.

 

As far as shot term.. If I need a veggie... I have it.  if  I want  a "meat snack".. I just opejn a bag and use it for the week.

 

As far as a "specific" purpose... I don't have just (1).  It's multi purpose.

 

Pickled products get REAL salty.

 

Mr. Mike

[huiray]

Thanks all.

 

Wow, Mr Mike, you have some adventures with freezers!

[Kerry Beal]

Freeze dried kimchi here