Wine & Spirits Bargains at the PLCB (Part 2)

[wkl]

if the wax on top of the cork was cracked, your bottle was exposed to heat.either at your house or the state store.or both. the heat would have forced the cork up, thereby cracking the wax seal.

it doesn't take much temperature change to make this happen.

the bottle may also have been overfilled, which can make leakage due to heat exposure happen even easier.

[Jeff L]

BTW, the party was a lot of fun and everyone was line dancing to Boz Scaggs by 2:00AM.

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Hey I love Boz Scaggs as much as the next guy, but line dancing? This doesn't make for a pretty picture at all but I'm sure you had some wine induced fun nonetheless

[Dennis]

BTW, the party was a lot of fun and everyone was line dancing to Boz Scaggs by 2:00AM.

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Hey I love Boz Scaggs as much as the next guy, but line dancing? This doesn't make for a pretty picture at all but I'm sure you had some wine induced fun nonetheless

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Hey, I almost forgot...we also Indian Leg Wresteled before the line dancing episode!

[phillyirish]

"Indian Leg Wrestling"....

Now there's an image that hasn't crossed my mind for many, many years.

And I thought I was here just for the wine.

But here's an LCB question for everyone. Are other specialty stores as barren of Chairman Selections as the store in State College? My bet is that Bryn Mawr and Lemoyne are chock full, while many of us are wating for the next stage coach to make it out to the frontier.

Dan

[PaniniGuy]

Are other specialty stores as barren of Chairman Selections as the store in State College?  My bet is that Bryn Mawr and Lemoyne are chock full, while many of us are wating for the next stage coach to make it out to the frontier. 

Dan

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Sorry to hear that (and you must be really p.o'd to come back for post #2 just to mention that).

We have Chairman's Selections here at our store in Bethel Park, but BFD. Nothing on sale here where the same or better quality couldn't be had in CT or NY for less.

Having moved here from CT where a young boy could grow up to be anything he wanted, INCLUDING a wine merchant/liquor store owner, I have to ask the question: has any gubernatorial candidate in PA ever talked about dismantling/reforming the LCB. In four years here I've never heard a peep from any politico. Figured the Repubs would be all over this because the system is communist/big state and the Dems would be on it because, hey, Libs like to party.

Not taking sides. Just would like to see the LCB gone and stores like Scarsdale's Zachy's or Stamford's Warehouse Liquors around here in place instead of the status quo.

I imagine you've had this argument before, but I couldn't find it anywhere. Any lobbying orgs fighting this?

If this post is inappropriate for this thread, feel free to pull it. No offense taken.

[yeldarb]

We have Chairman's Selections here at our store in Bethel Park, but BFD.  Nothing on sale here where the same or better quality couldn't be had in CT or NY for less.

Having moved here from CT where a young boy could grow up to be anything he wanted, INCLUDING a wine merchant/liquor store owner, I have to ask the question:  has any gubernatorial candidate in PA ever talked about dismantling/reforming the LCB.  In four years here I've never heard a peep from any politico.  Figured the Repubs would be all over this because the system is communist/big state and the Dems would be on it because, hey, Libs like to party.

Not taking sides.  Just would like to see the LCB gone and stores like Scarsdale's Zachy's or Stamford's Warehouse Liquors around here in place instead of the status quo.

I imagine you've had this argument before, but I couldn't find it anywhere.  Any lobbying orgs fighting this?

If this post is inappropriate for this thread, feel free to pull it.  No offense taken.

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I hope this post isn't deleted, because it's extremely accurate, imho. I've lived in PA all my life but have the benefit of a friend who lives near Zachy's and numerous other wine stores that put even the best PA Wine & Spirits shops to shame. Don't get me wrong, I think Jon Newman has brought tremendous improvements... but while he deserves being lauded, let's keep in mind that what he started with was a pretty abysmal system.

I'm sure the reason the LCB is not dismantled is that it brings in huge revenues to the state, and employs lots of people (some of whom are excellent wine consultants, but some of whom are shlubs with a 'government job' attitude.) Don't forget, we have that Johnstown flood to pay for... ;-)

At least you can go buy a single bottle of wine, now even on Sundays in some places. I have an even bigger issue with PA's crazy 3-tier beer distribution system. I know this is a wine forum but since I also lvoe microbrews I can help but chime in on how stupid it is that I have to buy a whole CASE of something I want to try, when in neighboring states I can just buy a 2 or 3 bottles at a grocery store, or at most a six-pack. Yes there are bars in PA that sell six-packs, but they overcharge for the convenience and cater mostly to the Bud crowd anyway.

I'd happily vote for someone (elephant or donkey) who promised real reform of PA's wine and beer regulations. At least it's an issue everyone can understand! (privatization of highways and bridges, anyone? http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/06262/722995-147.stm)

[urbanfabric]

Having moved here from CT where a young boy could grow up to be anything he wanted, INCLUDING a wine merchant/liquor store owner, I have to ask the question:  has any gubernatorial candidate in PA ever talked about dismantling/reforming the LCB.  In four years here I've never heard a peep from any politico.  Figured the Repubs would be all over this because the system is communist/big state and the Dems would be on it because, hey, Libs like to party.

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Actually in the four years since Rendell has taken office, the state now allows a certain percentage of stores to be open on Sunday (this may have been before his time, anyone remember?) which has increased subsequently, we can buy wine and spirits on election day, and we can now buy corkscrews in state stores.

It's still an absolutely ridiculous system, but all of the changes are at least making it more manageable. And, from what I can tell, the Chairman's Selections are an opportunity to bring in new and interesting things more easily.

I figure that Rendell's taking all the baby steps he can without meeting much resistance. The real issue seems to be the money. From what I've read, if we sold off all the stores, the immediate payoff would be great, but the long term result would be a huge loss of revenue for the state. All the changes in the last four years have resulted in more income for the state.

I've also wondered if anyone was willing to fight the system... how can a state regulate interstate commerce? Maybe alcohol, tobacco, and firearms are excluded? I don't know enough to know the answer.

[wkl]

i wonder what would happen if the state allowed independent and state run retail stores. a little in state competition would be interesting.

it really sucks that a pennsylvania resident, who has the dream of opening their own retail wine shop, has to leave the state to do it.

[newsgal]

Countless governors, candidates, House and Senate members, etc. have all tried the idea of privatizing the state stores, but it's turned down each and every time. Why? Both the revenue the state stores bring, and from what I've been told - labor unions representing the state store employees.

So...yes...it's been discussed, but always nixed. I will agree, however, that's it's gotten MUCH better in recent years. I just returned from a trip to Sonoma, and the tasting room clerks there were all interested in the Chairman's Selection program and wondered how they could become a part of it.

Edited September 27, 2006 by newsgal (log)

[PaniniGuy]

Countless governors, candidates, House and Senate members, etc.  have all tried the idea of privatizing the state stores, but it's turned down each and every time. Why? Both the revenue the state stores bring, and from what I've been told - labor unions representing the state store employees. 

So...yes...it's been discussed, but always nixed.  I will agree, however, that's it's gotten MUCH better in recent years.  I just returned from a trip to Sonoma, and the tasting room clerks there were all interested in the Chairman's Selection program and wondered how they could become a part of it.

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It's still a business model that has no place in a free market society. You have to wonder who's paying for the financial wizardry that goes into the balance sheet analysis that gets reported. There's simply no way that a state-run enterprise employing state-paid employees is more efficient than a private enterprise model.

It's simply that we, wine-loving citizens, haven't brought about enough pressure.

People aren't running around getting hammered on good wine. While not ideal, there are states that allow indie merchants to sell wine/beer while the state sells hootch - and in many cases cheaper wines.

Before moving here, I've lived my entire life in states that are in the top half of US per capita wine consumption. PA is in the seventh decile, closer to eighth. While it's almost a given that there's a big swath in the middle of the state that might not be wine drinkers, same can be said for rural areas of NY and MD.

Although PA is in the seventh decile, NJ is in the third, NY is in the fourth, MD is in the fifth. I'd take that as pretty convincing evidence that a lot of wine is being brought in over the borders because the labels are not available here or are cheaper elsewhere.

[mrbigjas]

It's simply that we, wine-loving citizens, haven't brought about enough pressure. 

i don't think that's the case--we've brought as much pressure as we could.

i think it's more likely that we, the wine-loving citizens, make up too small a percentage of the state's populace to make a difference in a 73 year-old, unionized, highly political, and extraordinarily profitable entrenched bureaucracy.

i mean for each of the six of us talking on this thread on egullet, there are 100,000 people who just don't care.

[Jeff L]

It's simply that we, wine-loving citizens, haven't brought about enough pressure. 

i don't think that's the case--we've brought as much pressure as we could.

i think it's more likely that we, the wine-loving citizens, make up too small a percentage of the state's populace to make a difference in a 73 year-old, unionized, highly political, and extraordinarily profitable entrenched bureaucracy.

i mean for each of the six of us talking on this thread on egullet, there are 100,000 people who just don't care.

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James, this is exactly right. I know I have talked it up to everyone I knew when it looked like privatization was a possiblity during the republican controlled government. Mostly I was met with total apathy from folks who share, to a degree, my passion for wine.

I think people are resigned to things the way they are and have learned to deal with it. I suspect this lack of action on most peoples parts is not limited to wine laws in our commonwealth but indicitive of a larger apathy out there.

That said, as I have menmtioned elsewhere, I think Jonathan Newman is doing a bang up job on many fronts. Think back to the way things were at state stores (doesn't that sounds like a communist system?) It will never be perfect but it's sure a lot better than it was.

[KatieLoeb]

Not a wine bargain, but for those of you into mixing up serious and interesting cocktails, the Yellow Chartreuse is on closeout for $30.99/bottle. You can plug in your location at the link above and see where the nearest bottle is located.

[Capaneus]

Today's NYT speaks highly of Stonehaven Riesling. While it isn't currently available in stores, the quoted price for SLO is $10.29 - lower than $13 apparently charged to our Empire State neighbors, courtesy of the Free Market.

I might try me some of this here wine.

Anyone have any recent PLCB Riesling experiences worth checking out? I find myself in that mood again.

[KatieLoeb]

Happened into the Franklin Mills Outlet store tonight, as I happened to be up in that neck of the woods.

Good overall stock of various Chairman's Selections, including the Kaiken Ultra, Murphy-Goode Fume Blanc The Duece, The Whitehall Lane Cabernet at a steal price of $14.99 (I tried this last weekend. It's damned tasty wine at that price), as well as several others. Once I taste the spoils of this trip I'll report back.

[doviakw]

Happened into the Franklin Mills Outlet store tonight, as I happened to be up in that neck of the woods.

Good overall stock of various Chairman's Selections, including the Kaiken Ultra, ...

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There are two vintages of the Kaiken Malbec Ultra in PLCB stores: 2003 and 2004. We tried some of the 2004 this past weekend with stuffed peppers in a tomato gravy. This wine is MUCH "bigger" than last year's "lesser" Kaiken Malbec offering (opened one of those last night w/pot roast ... only four left out of the original two cases). The Ultra 2004 is dense with a very rich mouthfeel and a strong tannic grip even after vigorous decanting. I don't have enough experience to say what difference some years in the cellar will bring but maybe the tannins will loosen up a bit. Even then, for me it's more of a sip-in-front-of-the-fire-on-a-cold-evening wine rather than a dinner accompanyment unless dinner is roasted or grilled beef.

I am interested in other's opinions since I am always trying to learn.

[Dennis]

I had the Robert Mondavi '96 Cab last night and was disappointed...It had a great nose but the color was already turning brown and other than some tast of pepper, I wasn't getting much else out of it. I preferred the 2003 Ultra Kaiken.

I bought a bottle of the Grant Burge to try this weekend and hope it is as good as the bottle that I had in Doylestown about 3 years ago...that was great but I couldn't find any at the state stores here of over in Delaware at Total Wine.

[doviakw]

Happened into the Franklin Mills Outlet store tonight, as I happened to be up in that neck of the woods.

Good overall stock of various Chairman's Selections, including ... The Whitehall Lane Cabernet at a steal price of $14.99 (I tried this last weekend.  It's damned tasty wine at that price), ...

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I haven't tried the Whitehall Lane C.S. Cabernet Sauvignon 2005 yet but I find the pricing interesting. This is a wine that was made specifically for the PLCB and is not available anywhere else. It's not even available directly from the winery where the latest cab. sauv. release is 2003. My question: How can the PLCB state a savings of $30 from a $45 suggested retail price when the wine is not for sale anywhere else at any price (I contacted the winery directly and received a reply from the sales manager)? This seems disingenuous at best and, unless there is something that I'm missing, somewhat dishonest.

We have a bottle at home and may get to it this weekend. The winery stated that the grapes are from various unspecified Napa sources, that the wine was aged in a mix of new French and American oak and was just recently bottled.

I notice that there are other wines in the Chairman's Selection list with the "C.S." designation so I assume that the same question applies to those, as well. Again, I'm not questioning the value; just the stated "savings".

[handmc]

I know this is a tired whine but I live in the pottstown area should I really have to drive 1/2 hour to even be able to shop the chairman's selections.

[Capaneus]

...I'm not questioning the value; just the stated "savings".

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That's one part of the program that's always been problematic for me: even items where the Suggested Retail has a basis in fact, that number is often vastly different from actual prevailing market price. Generally, I deal with it by ignoring that and checking actual online prices. Which is not a help in this case, of course.

I wonder why they don't just quote the wineries' release price where available - and skip that altogether in these proprietary offerings.

[KatieLoeb]

Happened into the Franklin Mills Outlet store tonight, as I happened to be up in that neck of the woods.

Good overall stock of various Chairman's Selections, including ... The Whitehall Lane Cabernet at a steal price of $14.99 (I tried this last weekend.  It's damned tasty wine at that price), ...

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I haven't tried the Whitehall Lane C.S. Cabernet Sauvignon 2005 yet but I find the pricing interesting. This is a wine that was made specifically for the PLCB and is not available anywhere else. It's not even available directly from the winery where the latest cab. sauv. release is 2003. My question: How can the PLCB state a savings of $30 from a $45 suggested retail price when the wine is not for sale anywhere else at any price (I contacted the winery directly and received a reply from the sales manager)? This seems disingenuous at best and, unless there is something that I'm missing, somewhat dishonest.

We have a bottle at home and may get to it this weekend. The winery stated that the grapes are from various unspecified Napa sources, that the wine was aged in a mix of new French and American oak and was just recently bottled.

I notice that there are other wines in the Chairman's Selection list with the "C.S." designation so I assume that the same question applies to those, as well. Again, I'm not questioning the value; just the stated "savings".

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I have to presume that they're going by the retail price for a similar current release from the same winery, sourced from the same grapes, made by the same folks, etc. Or perhaps what other wineries in the same area using similar raw ingredients are commanding for their wines.

In the end it's like a lot of things with a nebulous value. It's what the market will bear. :shrug:

[Misha]

There are two vintages of the Kaiken Malbec Ultra in PLCB stores: 2003 and 2004.

Would suggest if you want some of the '03 (perhaps for a side-by-side comparison), that you call the store prior to confirm that that, indeed, is what they have in stock, as I tried two stores in Bucks Co. last night that the PLCB web said had loads of it, only to find out that what they really had was all '04's.

Edited October 7, 2006 by Misha (log)

[KatieLoeb]

I always call ahead when it seems there's only a couple of bottles of whatever it is I'm seeking, but this goes to show you that it always pays to call ahead, even if there appears to be boatloads of something. The information in the computer is only as good as whomever entered it, right?

[Natasha]

I'll be interested to hear what others think of the Whitehall Lane. We opened a bottle on Friday night, and while I thought it was just OK, my husband actively disliked it. He thought there was no real forward taste, no mouth feel and no finish. I know you liked it Katie, and that recommendation should be enough for plenty of others to try it. I was surprised that we didn't like it, but then again taste preferences are so individual.

[KatieLoeb]

I liked the Whitehall Lane Cab for $15. For $45, I probably wouldn't have liked it nearly as much.

Interestingly, Chairman Newman said something similar to me when he was explaining how he decided what to buy and what prices to set. It's true that the price is directly proportional to how much I like a particular wine sometimes.

Someday, when I trace back my geneology and find the stinking filthy rich family I was supposed to be born into and get the account number to that long overdue trust fund, I might feel differently. For now, I stick with the hand dealt me.