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paulraphael

Locust bean gum

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I've been experimenting with stabilizer blends for ice cream, and am currently using a variation on one recommended by Francisco Migoya:  xanthan, locust bean gum, and guar gum in a ratio of about 1 : 1.4 : 1.4.

 

My one hesitation with this blend is that LCB requires a lot of heat (according to some sources) to hydrate fully. Modernist Cuisine and a couple of other sources say it needs to go above 90°C.  I'd like to not have to cook the dairy this high.

 

Some other sources say LCB only needs 80°C, and others say 47°C.

 

This is a lot of variation, and I'm curious if it's because of actual variation in versions of the product, different standards of solubility (including different amounts of time), or because someone's misinformed.

 

If it's just a question of time, I'm wondering if I can get away with lower temperatures, because my base has some egg custard and needs to be cooked anyhow (I cook in a water bath for about 30 minutes but could go longer ... temperature of at least 79°C) and the mix then ages at least 8 hours in the fridge.

 

Any thoughts?

 

Edited to add: I've been trying to get information from the manufacturer, with no success. My LCB comes from CP Kelco, who were nice enough to send a sample, but I can't get them to return email or phone calls. 


Edited by paulraphael (log)
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Finally got a scientist on the phone. She said 80°C. I asked what happens at lower temps and she said that fractionally smaller amounts of the gum would hydrate. So, at 75°C, maybe only 80% or so of the gum would disolve and contribute to thickening. And she said this was independent of the time spent at temperature. 

 

She said this had to do with normal organic variation from one molecule to the next.


Edited by paulraphael (log)
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Would you be able to hydrate the gum in a small amount of milk at the higher temp then add it to your ice cream base after cooling slightly? Not sure how these things work, just an idea.

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Yes, that would be possible. I think I won't have to do this, though. The temperature the manufacturer gave me is probably as low as I need to go. There's egg custard in my recipe as well, and that needs cooking.

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Guest Caren Palevitz

I've been experimenting with stabilizer blends for ice cream, and am currently using a variation on one recommended by Francisco Migoya:  xanthan, locust bean gum, and guar gum in a ratio of about 1 : 1.4 : 1.4.

 

My one hesitation with this blend is that LCB requires a lot of heat (according to some sources) to hydrate fully. Modernist Cuisine and a couple of other sources say it needs to go above 90°C.  I'd like to not have to cook the dairy this high.

 

Some other sources say LCB only needs 80°C, and others say 47°C.

 

This is a lot of variation, and I'm curious if it's because of actual variation in versions of the product, different standards of solubility (including different amounts of time), or because someone's misinformed.

 

If it's just a question of time, I'm wondering if I can get away with lower temperatures, because my base has some egg custard and needs to be cooked anyhow (I cook in a water bath for about 30 minutes but could go longer ... temperature of at least 79°C) and the mix then ages at least 8 hours in the fridge.

 

Any thoughts?

 

Edited to add: I've been trying to get information from the manufacturer, with no success. My LCB comes from CP Kelco, who were nice enough to send a sample, but I can't get them to return email or phone calls. 

 

Hope we can still help with this one! The higher the temperature, the more of it will hydrate. You can absolutely use lower temperatures, but less of it will hydrate. If you decide to use a lower temp, we recommend increasing the amount of LCB by 20%.

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Thank you Caren. 

 

I suspected there were hydrocolloid gurus hiding in the shadows. Do you know much about ice cream stabilizer blends in general?

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On 6/8/2014 at 11:49 AM, paulraphael said:

 

I've been experimenting with stabilizer blends for ice cream, and am currently using a variation on one recommended by Francisco Migoya:  xanthan, locust bean gum, and guar gum in a ratio of about 1 : 1.4 : 1.4.

 

How much of the mixture do you put into a batch of ice cream?  I'm currently using a recipe that starts at 1,000 g and is reduced to 850 g before putting it into the ice bath.

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I forgot this topic existed. And am glad no one was overly confused by my abbreviating locust bean gum "lcb."

 

I've done a lot of experimenting since last year and have completely ditched this Migoya formula, but not locust bean gum, which seems to be the best of the conventional gums for taming ice crystals. 

 

The xanthan / lbg combination forms a pretty strong gel. The base will turn into a thick pudding when it ages, and will need to be turned into a fluid gel with a stick blender before you can spin it. Even then, the viscosity will be very high; more than what's ideal for most ice creams. This formula might work for a very low-fat or no-fat ice cream that benefits from the gelling (to make up for a lack of creaminess. 

 

Xanthan is also not the most efficient stabilizer. I've ditched it and now use a more conventional combination of locust, guar, and carrageenan (I use lambda carrageenan, because it doesn't form a gel in dairy). 

 

Right now my favorite ratio is 4 : 2 : 1, with the total of this used at around 0.15%. There's a lot of wiggle room. If you want more body and chew, increase the guar. If you want a thicker, creamier melted viscosity, increase the carrageenan. 

 

I've written about this in much greater detail here

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