Rick Bayless and Burger King - Part 2

[hillbill]

No In N Out or Fat Burger or Houston's in NYC.

We have Houston's in NYC...

Unless there's some other burger place out there with the same name?

Oh, it's a new name to me. But I'm about as downscale as can be anyway, more of the In N Out kinda customer.

The web site is odd (or unfinished.) Very slick with a list of locations, but absolutely no info about the type of food, or menus, or anything.

Edited October 15, 2003 by hillbill (log)

[sherribabee]

No In N Out or Fat Burger or Houston's in NYC.

We have Houston's in NYC...

Unless there's some other burger place out there with the same name?

Oh, it's a new name to me. But I'm about as downscale as can be anyway, more of the In N Out kinda customer.

I've never had a burger at Houston's (had the crabcakes though -- gross!), but I hear they're decent.

[Toliver]

Perhaps, BK is trying to re-position itself as an "upscale" fast food joint and use the concept that "if it appeals to people who are food professionals, it must be good."

Do we have anyone who reads Ad Age or the like here who can comment on a possible re-positioning?

I had thought about posting a similar idea on the "Rick Bayless/Burger King" thread but figured it would be too off-thread.

I think it's very curious that BK has enlisted both RB & Rachel Ray to shill their food. The audience for RB & RR are definitely not the typical fast food audience. I think Taco Bell's demographic is males 13-24 or there about. As you mentioned, Mickey-D's is aiming at a similar audience with their new "I'm lovin' it" campaign.

BK's fast food demo has to be similar. Do they really think RB & RR will drag a new demo into their restaurants? Is the "why" that obvious?

Or are they just trying anything to boost sales and the latest consultant said to try this? Perhaps sales are down and they're willing to try anything?

Anyone remember BK's recent campaign aimed at African-Americans? I wonder how successful that was (or wasn't)?

Maybe BK will do what Jack-in-the-Box did a couple years ago and blow up their clown "mascot"...now there's a story.

[jhlurie]

this is what i don't get. if you are so opposed to the schilling...

DON'T BUY IT!!

Why then are you opposed to people being opposed to the shilling? And why should my decision to buy the product necessarily be affected by my opinion of the shillers? I'm a reasoning being and can seperate out my impressions of the product from the advertising. Why can't I dislike the ads independant of any other action or reaction?

Heck, I'm one of the few who said that Baguette Sandwich #1 was "no worse than most other fast food sandwiches".

Now if you'd said "if are so opposed to the schilling then don't watch the commercials" you might have had a point. Or even better "if are so opposed to the schilling then never buy a book written by Mr. Bayless or Ms. Ray".

I actually have no objection to Burger King's role in this. I fully expect them to do whatever they need to in order to help their business, and they aren't pretending to represent anyone else's interest except their own.

Pot kettle indeed.

[hillbill]

In California, or at least Southern California, I think there are better choices than Johnny Rockets (tho I like their grilled chicken breast snadwich).  On the low end, you can get better burgers for  the same or less at Fat Burger or In N Out.  On the higher end, you can go to Houston's, pay a little more and take advantage of the more extensive menu choices there.

I just remembered that when I was in LA about 10 years ago I was amazed at how many small burger chains were still in existence. Is this still the case, and is this a unique LA phenomenon (i.e. what is it about LA that allows all these guys to survive the McCorporate onslaught when they seemingly haven't elsewhere, at least in the east coast areas I'm familiar with?)

[bilrus]

I don't understand the theory behind Burger King using these two or even Crest using Emeril for those annoying (is that redundant - Emeril and Annoying?) toothpaste ads.

While these are big stars of Food TV (although you can't even say that about Bayless) Food TV is a farily small network in the scheme of things. Most of us on eGullet know who they are, but how many people really know them. Why not just go the route of "I'm not a chef/food personality, but I play one on TV" and put the guy in a big Touque carrying a spatula.

Not to veer this completely off topic but I get the same feeling watching K Street on HBO. On there they use Politicians and Political Pundits in cameos without identifying who they are. I am in the business so I know them, but I can't help but wonder how many people are completely baffled by this program. I'm baffled by it enough myself.

I guess niche marketing is becoming more and more mainstream.

[ronnie_suburban]

Why can't I dislike the ads independant of any other action or reaction?

I was thinking the same thing about Bayless' doing the ad in the first place...

=R=

[sherribabee]

(is that redundant - Emeril and Annoying?)

Yes.

[sherribabee]

Not to veer this completely off topic but I get the same feeling watching K Street on HBO.  On there they use Politicians and Political Pundits in cameos without identifying who they are.  I am in the business so I know them, but I can't help but wonder how many people are completely baffled by this program.  I'm baffled by it enough myself.

I doubt anyone with little interest in politics would be inclined to even watch K Street. I'm not in the political biz, but I'm a fairly informed citizen and haven't had any problems knowing who is who on that show.

OK, Back on topic...

[hollywood]

I just remembered that when I was in LA about 10 years ago I was amazed at how many small burger chains were still in existence.  Is this still the case, and is this a unique LA phenomenon (i.e. what is it about LA that allows all these guys to survive the McCorporate onslaught when they seemingly haven't elsewhere, at least in the east coast areas I'm familiar with?)

I'd say it's still the case. Off the top of my head, we have chains like In N Out, Fat Burger (Magic Johnson owned some of this, not sure if he still does), Tommy's, Jim's and Astro Burger. There are even little chains with names like Tom's, Tomas, etc. playing off the popularity of Tommy's. There's also Carl's Jr. but it fits the model of the national chains. Virtually every mid range and below restaurant offers burgers. As to why this is, I'm guessing but possibilities are: low paid immigrant/illegal labor, family businesses run by hardworking families (often immigrants), undeclared cash receipts, a populace that likes burgers and tacos and chicken, etc. eaten on the run. I don't know if this is unique to LA (when I was growing up in Texas, there were numerous small chains but that was years ago), but generally these folks make better burgers than McD's etc. Let's not forget the original McD's was a family run shop in, I think, Downey or El Monte or somewhere around here. For reasons that continue to escape me, Fat Burger does not make it in the LA Zagat guide whereas In N Out, Astro and Tommy's do.

[Mayhaw Man]

, I think, Downey or El Monte or somewhere around here.

The third McDonalds (Ithink this is the one you are referring to and until five minutes ago I thought it was the first as well (Google knows all, Google sees all) is on Lakewood in Downey. It's actually kind of neat in a throwback way, arches and all, souvenir stand next door.

O.K. In the interest of science and feeling like I was eating for the good of mankind (or at least the slice of it that frequents egullet) I stopped on my way home this evening at Burger King (the first time I have spent a fast food dollar in years) and bought Baguette #2. I totally concur that it is just another sandwich. It was not bad, but I would not buy another. Bread was rather chewy and tasteless (and why they are cutting off the ends I will never understand. I watched the person behind the counter throw away about a 1/2 dozen bread ends while I was waiting. What a waste.) and the "grilled" chicken breast had no, and I MEAN NO, taste. It was not objectionable, just didn't taste like anything. The sauce tasted like any run of the mill sweet mustard (that kind that comes in the container that looks like a bear comes to mind). Happily, there was one solid piece of decent lettuce and a couple of slices of hydro tomato. The sandwich was plain and there was very little to object to. Just plain.

Now, I may be a harsh critic.I do live in South Louisiana. The sandwich capital of the planet (imho). Within one hour of my house I can get the premier examples of some of the best sandwiches served on this or any other planet. Oyster po boys from Casamentos or Acme. Shrimp po boys from Domilises or Crabby Jacks. Grilled trout po boys from Uglesiches. Muffelettas from Central Grocery. All of these are made with care and thought and only top notch ingredients and the best bread (Zip, Leidenheimers, Binders, all of these make the perfect vehicle for a swell sandwich). Softshell Crab Po Boys from THe Seafood Galley on the Westbank (the Jazz Fest version is my favorite dining experience of all time, bar none, in any category, fine, casual, home, etc.)

Anyway, I took one for the team and lived to tell about it. I would take a chance again for the good of man kind, but probably not on that particular item.

[hillbill]

I stopped on my way home this evening at Burger King (the first time I have spent a fast food dollar in years) and bought Baguette #2. I totally concur that it is just another sandwich. It was not bad, but I would not buy another.

Yes, but was it the size of your finger like this one?

[Mayhaw Man]

I stopped on my way home this evening at Burger King (the first time I have spent a fast food dollar in years) and bought Baguette #2. I totally concur that it is just another sandwich. It was not bad, but I would not buy another.

Yes, but was it the size of your finger like this one?

Hillbill,

Try to imagine my own dissapointment and need to engage in self mutilation when I realized that I did not digitally preserve my dining experience at BK. How can I ever move on in the ranks of great foodwriting until I learn to totally document every dining experience? I am shamed. I will now slink off from my keyboard and go watch the Cubs (hopefully win).

Incidentally, the one that I had, while the mustard version, was, in all fairness, a reasonably close facsimile of the photo over the counter. It didn't look bad at all. Just not good. Kind of plain, like I said.

Edited for the typing challenged (me)

Edited October 16, 2003 by Mayhaw Man (log)

[Fat Guy]

Fat Guy- It was an exchange between you and eliotmorgan (sp?) on about page 21.

Still not sure what this is in reference to, but happy to follow-up if specifics can be provided.

[jhlurie]

Turns out my local BK is so unenthusiastic about the Baguettes that it doesn't bother to put up signs for them. When I went to try Baguette #1 last week, there was only a sign on one of the outer windows for it and no display inside. Not on the pricing board, nor even little cards over the registers. Today, looking for Baguette #2, they didn't even have the outside sign. In fact, the pimply faced teenager didn't know what I was talking about, so I wound up leaving without one.

Edited October 16, 2003 by jhlurie (log)

[jhlurie]

Oh no... not Shaq too! Yup, I just saw the commercial.

By the way... Crappy Baguette #3 is on the way. According to the information I saw "The Smoky BBQ Chicken Baguette, available starting Oct. 27, is topped with peppers, onions and a barbecue sauce."

Let's start guessing which food personality will advertise that one.

EDIT - Okay, I posted this briefly in its own topic called "Shaq and Burger King", to make fun of the multiple threads of this nature, but management was not amused. But I really am wondering who the inevitable third Celeb chef person will be. Shaq's presense in the new commercial for Bag#2 seems to be independent of the other Celeb chef campaign.

Edited October 16, 2003 by jhlurie (log)

[elyse]

Michel, your member number is at sixes and sevens.  (Sorry, I love that expression).

I just noticed that I'm member number 6666. Does that make me extra devilish? Devilish squared? Super-sized devil?

and that was your 66th post.

creepy.

You're not serious. He's been here too long to have 10 posts in one day. Are you serious?

hillbill, yes you have a touch extra evil.

[ScorchedPalate]

By the way... Crappy Baguette #3 is on the way. According to the information I saw "The Smoky BBQ Chicken Baguette, available starting Oct. 27, is topped with peppers, onions and a barbecue sauce." 

Let's start guessing which food personality will advertise that one.

Hmm, Let's see: Rick Bayless for southwestern, Rachael Ray for honey mustard... I'm guessing Bobby 'boy meets grill' Flay for a BBQ version.

Whaddya think?

[Fat Guy]

I'd vote no on Flay. He's too expensive. I have a feeling they're getting these second-stringers cheap -- a few hundred grand at the most -- and marveling at how easy it is to buy chefs.

[jhlurie]

Not sure if this deserves it's own topic, but it sort of fits here:

Fast-food restaurants put their menus on a diet

Mentions the Bayless/BK thing, but also has some info on other current Fast Food efforts towards faux-healthy food.

Hardees plan actually sounds like one of the more honest ones:

Hardee's streamlined its menu this year to focus on the "Thickburger," an Angus beef sandwich that can be ordered with 5 ounces of meat - or supersized to nearly 11 ounces. Hardee's sales in August rose 6.5 percent over last year. But the chain also is testing a lower-fat turkey burger and a low-carbohydrate burger in a handful of St. Louis restaurants, and it plans to post nutritional information in all its restaurants within the next month.

[Mayhaw Man]

I'd vote no on Flay. He's too expensive. I have a feeling they're getting these second-stringers cheap -- a few hundred grand at the most -- and marveling at how easy it is to buy chefs.

I'm thinking Al Roker. He already has a hokey show on Food TV, and I am pretty sure a TV weatherman qualifies as a second stringer.

Edited October 16, 2003 by Mayhaw Man (log)

[tommy]

By the way... Crappy Baguette #3 is on the way.  According to the information I saw "The Smoky BBQ Chicken Baguette, available starting Oct. 27, is topped with peppers, onions and a barbecue sauce." 

what a minute. that sounds exactly like the sante fe thing.

[Jason Perlow]

I'd vote no on Flay. He's too expensive. I have a feeling they're getting these second-stringers cheap -- a few hundred grand at the most -- and marveling at how easy it is to buy chefs.

I'm guessing Ming Tsai for the teriyaki with scallions one.

[docsconz]

I saw Shaq with a chicken sandwich. I don't remember which one.

[jhlurie]

I saw Shaq with a chicken sandwich. I don't remember which one.

It was Crappy Baguette #2--the so-called "Savory Mustard" model.

Then again it's Shaq. Does it matter what he's selling?