Drinks! 2014 (Part 1)

[Hassouni]

Chris, Dan, and Rafa:

I like menthol and I like bitter. I don't know what it is, but there is something from the depths of hell within. Is that's unknown something that makes it vile and therefore bad.

I've had it neat, both room temp and chilled, and in cocktails, and I find it repulsive. And I do like weird tastes in both food and drink. I would much rather take a shot of aromatic bitters than a drop of Fernet Branca.

[Rafa]

Me too, but that's just because Angostura is delicious.

[Rafa]

Different strokes. I don't really like Ramazzotti neat—tastes like orange peel in stale root beer.

[EvergreenDan]

I personally think Branca Menta is harder to like than Fernet.

Put that shot of Angostura in this: Trinidad Sour.

[Hassouni]

Oh I have done, many times. One of the best drinks ever. I introduced the Passenger to it and they featured it as a special a few weeks later. With no credit to me...

[JoNorvelleWalker]

Trinidad Sour sounds like something I would really like. Alas, no rye in house, though my local store has a rather nice assortment of brands and bottles. Not sure if my next paycheck will cover it. I'd really like to try a bottle of rye to see if I like it.

Tonight I'm on my second daiquiri -- of a day that featured lying in the road, in ice water, in the cold rain. Somewhat glad to be alive however.

What I have just noticed, getting back to the topic at hand, is that when I say a drink tastes weak, what I really mean is that the drink tastes low in citrus. My drinks are certainly never weak in alcohol. I have not found a mixed drink without lime or lemon, or other acidic fruit that I enjoy. More the better. Is this normal?

[ChrisTaylor]

be that as it may, fernet is fucking vile. and I ain't no non-drinker.

This here, kids, is a person that cannot be trusted. It's on par with disliking kittens. Or disliking deformed bald kittens.

EDIT

Just made a daiquiri using Rhum JM 50. 2 rum to 1 lime to 0.5 simple.

Edited January 12, 2014 by ChrisTaylor (log)

[ChrisTaylor]

From a recipe inspired by a killer line from one of my favourite Tom Waits songs.

Smoke My Friends Down to the Filter

1:1:1 mezcal (Ilegal), Punt e Mes and Campari stirred with .25 oz lemon juice. Strained over a single, particularly robust ice spheroid.

I like it a whole lot. At first I thought the mezcal monstered the Punt e Mes and Campari out of the way and that maybe something more assertive like Cynar might be welcome but having had a few sips, now, I think they're there but this is just a more spirit-forward version of a Negroni than I'm familiar with (I always, always, always use the 1:1:1 ratio and distrust people that basically pour gin into a glass and say the word 'Campari' over it). A winner.

[Hassouni]

Trinidad Sour sounds like something I would really like. Alas, no rye in house, though my local store has a rather nice assortment of brands and bottles. Not sure if my next paycheck will cover it. I'd really like to try a bottle of rye to see if I like it.

Tonight I'm on my second daiquiri -- of a day that featured lying in the road, in ice water, in the cold rain. Somewhat glad to be alive however.

What I have just noticed, getting back to the topic at hand, is that when I say a drink tastes weak, what I really mean is that the drink tastes low in citrus. My drinks are certainly never weak in alcohol. I have not found a mixed drink without lime or lemon, or other acidic fruit that I enjoy. More the better. Is this normal?

Got a rye-heavy bourbon? I've done it with both Rittenhouse 100 and Wild Turkey 101 and it comes out great both ways.

be that as it may, fernet is fucking vile. and I ain't no non-drinker.

This here, kids, is a person that cannot be trusted. It's on par with disliking kittens. Or disliking deformed bald kittens.

Bah! How about independent thinking, eh?

[Adam George]

One of us! One of us!

[EvergreenDan]

Kittens are fucking vile -- the Cake Vodka of the animal world.

JNW -- I hope you're okay. Accident? Fall? Sounds bad.

[JoNorvelleWalker]

Kittens are fucking vile -- the Cake Vodka of the animal world.

JNW -- I hope you're okay. Accident? Fall? Sounds bad.

Thanks for the well wishes. It was a fall on the way to work. I walk. I'm a bit sore and banged up but nothing broken. I was very fortunate.

[JoNorvelleWalker]

Trinidad Sour sounds like something I would really like. Alas, no rye in house, though my local store has a rather nice assortment of brands and bottles. Not sure if my next paycheck will cover it. I'd really like to try a bottle of rye to see if I like it.

Tonight I'm on my second daiquiri -- of a day that featured lying in the road, in ice water, in the cold rain. Somewhat glad to be alive however.

What I have just noticed, getting back to the topic at hand, is that when I say a drink tastes weak, what I really mean is that the drink tastes low in citrus. My drinks are certainly never weak in alcohol. I have not found a mixed drink without lime or lemon, or other acidic fruit that I enjoy. More the better. Is this normal?

Got a rye-heavy bourbon? I've done it with both Rittenhouse 100 and Wild Turkey 101 and it comes out great both ways.

I have no bourbon either. I have tasted bourbon, years ago, and I remember that I liked it. I've read the entire eG thread on rye but still have no firm idea of what it tastes like. I feel like such a virgin. One thing I do not like (with all apologies to Canadians) is Canadian blended whiskey. If rye tastes like blended whiskey I will pass.

Is tannic a taste in rye? If so, are some brands of rye less tannic than others? As I said I have a lot of local rye choices, including Rittenhouse 100. Less tannic the better as far as I am concerned.

Nothing new to contribute to the thread tonight. I'm on my second cup of "whiskey" punch made with Black Barrel rum. I can't believe I made it thtough the bottle. It may be my last whiskey punch till I find a replacement. Which won't be till payday. The recipe does call for rye.

[Rafa]

Rye is much closer to bourbon than to Canadian blended whisky, or anything else. Its flavor is generally dryer than bourbon, with less corn sweetness, and more mouth-tingling spice, notably hot cinnamon and white pepper. Brands with a lot of rye grain in the mashbill (Bulleit, Templeton, Dickel rye) can have mint and evergreen flavors as well. If you've liked bourbon in the past then give rye a shot; order some Rittenhouse or Bulleit at a bar.

[ChrisTaylor]

Two things. One finer than the other,

Margarita following a 2:scant 1:scant 1:mere dash of agave syrup format using Ilegal's reposado mezcal. Pretty flash.

I made a Paper Plane/Aeroplane/Aircraft/Flying Machine from Kindred. 1:1:1:1 with bourbon (Buffalo), Aperol, Amaro Nonino and lemon juice. Should've realised that in Anglais 'accessible introduction to amari' means 'too fucking sweet, like some kind of lolly'. Have attacked it with some orange bitters (Regan's and Angostura).

[EvergreenDan]

Poo. Sorry to disappoint you. You made the original Paper Plane (Nonino, Aperol). It isn't my favorite variation, but it should not be sweet. Nonino is pretty dry compared to the average amaro. I'm guessing it needs more acid. Perhaps your lemons were a bit less sour than normal?

My favorite variation, which I served to guests two days ago, is Campari and Ramazzotti. It is better than the original -- more bitter and synergistic. It is definitely not sweet. I call this variation a Paper Airplane, a name I got from the chwhnd forum.

[Rafa]

@Dan you may like the Cryptic Memo, a Boulevardier variation with rye, Campari, and Ramazzotti that's like an aromatic version of the Paper Airplane.

[sbumgarner]

I made a Paper Plane/Aeroplane/Aircraft/Flying Machine from Kindred. 1:1:1:1 with bourbon (Buffalo), Aperol, Amaro Nonino and lemon juice. Should've realised that in Anglais 'accessible introduction to amari' means 'too fucking sweet, like some kind of lolly'. Have attacked it with some orange bitters (Regan's and Angostura).

Yeah, that's weird, I actually find that drink a touch too dry when made with Buffalo Trace, I find I need something like EC 12 to round it off. I am now intrigued to try Dan's version with Campari and Ramazzotti.

[Hassouni]

Trinidad Sour sounds like something I would really like. Alas, no rye in house, though my local store has a rather nice assortment of brands and bottles. Not sure if my next paycheck will cover it. I'd really like to try a bottle of rye to see if I like it.

Tonight I'm on my second daiquiri -- of a day that featured lying in the road, in ice water, in the cold rain. Somewhat glad to be alive however.

What I have just noticed, getting back to the topic at hand, is that when I say a drink tastes weak, what I really mean is that the drink tastes low in citrus. My drinks are certainly never weak in alcohol. I have not found a mixed drink without lime or lemon, or other acidic fruit that I enjoy. More the better. Is this normal?

Got a rye-heavy bourbon? I've done it with both Rittenhouse 100 and Wild Turkey 101 and it comes out great both ways.

I have no bourbon either. I have tasted bourbon, years ago, and I remember that I liked it. I've read the entire eG thread on rye but still have no firm idea of what it tastes like. I feel like such a virgin. One thing I do not like (with all apologies to Canadians) is Canadian blended whiskey. If rye tastes like blended whiskey I will pass.

Is tannic a taste in rye? If so, are some brands of rye less tannic than others? As I said I have a lot of local rye choices, including Rittenhouse 100. Less tannic the better as far as I am concerned.

Nothing new to contribute to the thread tonight. I'm on my second cup of "whiskey" punch made with Black Barrel rum. I can't believe I made it thtough the bottle. It may be my last whiskey punch till I find a replacement. Which won't be till payday. The recipe does call for rye.

Rye is much closer to bourbon than to Canadian blended whisky, or anything else. Its flavor is generally dryer than bourbon, with less corn sweetness, and more mouth-tingling spice, notably hot cinnamon and white pepper. Brands with a lot of rye grain in the mashbill (Bulleit, Templeton, Dickel rye) can have mint and evergreen flavors as well. If you've liked bourbon in the past then give rye a shot; order some Rittenhouse or Bulleit at a bar.

Rafa hit the nail so squarely on the head I'm not sure what else I can say, but here's my attempt:

I prefer rye to bourbon because of the so-described dryness. Granted, this varies in ryes and varies in bourbons, depending on how much rye/corn/wheat is involved.

Bourbon must be min. 51% corn, rye must be min 51% rye. What makes up that remaining 49% is open to the distiller. The higher the rye content (for either whisky), the spicier and less sweet it will be. For example, Bulleit Rye is 95% rye. I believe Rittenhouse is also high up there. Both are by no means sweet, and with the 100 proof of the Rittenhouse, it's perfect for cocktails, whereas a lower percentage and lower proof rye, such as Pikesville, while quite unobjectionable, doesn't stand out the same way.

Bourbons such as Maker's Mark, as Rafa and others have said elsewhere, are heavy on the wheat for the remaining 49%. These tend towards being too sweet for my tastes. My go-to Bourbon, though, Wild Turkey 101, is as I understand it, heavy on the rye for its 49% and comes off far less sweet, and more bracing than most bourbons. Just like Rittenhouse, that quality plus its proof make it a great cocktail spirit.

As for tannic qualities, if I'm not mistaken that's just a function of time in the barrel, as tannins are released from oak. So theoretically, bourbon and rye should have the same amount of tannins given the same age and same type of barrel. That said, though, there is a somewhat astringent quality in the high-rye mashbill spirits, but this is why rye is so favored among cocktail enthusiasts (at least those who dislike sweet drinks!)

Finally, Canadian whisky has nothing to do with real rye and you should not confuse the two.

[Adam George]

Unless it's Whistlepig, which is real rye. Confusing, huh?

[tanstaafl2]

Trinidad Sour sounds like something I would really like. Alas, no rye in house, though my local store has a rather nice assortment of brands and bottles. Not sure if my next paycheck will cover it. I'd really like to try a bottle of rye to see if I like it.

Tonight I'm on my second daiquiri -- of a day that featured lying in the road, in ice water, in the cold rain. Somewhat glad to be alive however.

What I have just noticed, getting back to the topic at hand, is that when I say a drink tastes weak, what I really mean is that the drink tastes low in citrus. My drinks are certainly never weak in alcohol. I have not found a mixed drink without lime or lemon, or other acidic fruit that I enjoy. More the better. Is this normal?

Got a rye-heavy bourbon? I've done it with both Rittenhouse 100 and Wild Turkey 101 and it comes out great both ways.

I have no bourbon either. I have tasted bourbon, years ago, and I remember that I liked it. I've read the entire eG thread on rye but still have no firm idea of what it tastes like. I feel like such a virgin. One thing I do not like (with all apologies to Canadians) is Canadian blended whiskey. If rye tastes like blended whiskey I will pass.

Is tannic a taste in rye? If so, are some brands of rye less tannic than others? As I said I have a lot of local rye choices, including Rittenhouse 100. Less tannic the better as far as I am concerned.

Nothing new to contribute to the thread tonight. I'm on my second cup of "whiskey" punch made with Black Barrel rum. I can't believe I made it thtough the bottle. It may be my last whiskey punch till I find a replacement. Which won't be till payday. The recipe does call for rye.

Rye is much closer to bourbon than to Canadian blended whisky, or anything else. Its flavor is generally dryer than bourbon, with less corn sweetness, and more mouth-tingling spice, notably hot cinnamon and white pepper. Brands with a lot of rye grain in the mashbill (Bulleit, Templeton, Dickel rye) can have mint and evergreen flavors as well. If you've liked bourbon in the past then give rye a shot; order some Rittenhouse or Bulleit at a bar.

Rafa hit the nail so squarely on the head I'm not sure what else I can say, but here's my attempt:

I prefer rye to bourbon because of the so-described dryness. Granted, this varies in ryes and varies in bourbons, depending on how much rye/corn/wheat is involved.

Bourbon must be min. 51% corn, rye must be min 51% rye. What makes up that remaining 49% is open to the distiller. The higher the rye content (for either whisky), the spicier and less sweet it will be. For example, Bulleit Rye is 95% rye. I believe Rittenhouse is also high up there. Both are by no means sweet, and with the 100 proof of the Rittenhouse, it's perfect for cocktails, whereas a lower percentage and lower proof rye, such as Pikesville, while quite unobjectionable, doesn't stand out the same way.

Bourbons such as Maker's Mark, as Rafa and others have said elsewhere, are heavy on the wheat for the remaining 49%. These tend towards being too sweet for my tastes. My go-to Bourbon, though, Wild Turkey 101, is as I understand it, heavy on the rye for its 49% and comes off far less sweet, and more bracing than most bourbons. Just like Rittenhouse, that quality plus its proof make it a great cocktail spirit.

As for tannic qualities, if I'm not mistaken that's just a function of time in the barrel, as tannins are released from oak. So theoretically, bourbon and rye should have the same amount of tannins given the same age and same type of barrel. That said, though, there is a somewhat astringent quality in the high-rye mashbill spirits, but this is why rye is so favored among cocktail enthusiasts (at least those who dislike sweet drinks!)

Finally, Canadian whisky has nothing to do with real rye and you should not confuse the two.

My two cents. Typical Canadian whiskey is in no way similar to a true rye as noted. It often has less rye than some straight bourbons. Long story on why it got that association that I can't type here! That said, many of the most interesting rye whiskey of late is coming from Canada. Whistlepig, Mastersons, Jefferson, Lock Stock and Barrel. It is all 100% rye from Canada.There is a reason for that too. I will try to find some links when I get time if anyone is interested in all the dry historical stuff!

Bulleit, Templeton and Dickel are all 95% ryes from LDI/MGP. The mintiness of those ryes (to me) is a distillery characteristic of LDI/MGP (Which interestingly has been undergoing some turmoil of late!).

Rittenhouse (a Heaven Hill product, now made at Heaven Hill but used to be made at Brown Forman) is a "Barely Rye" rye (meaning it is 51% rye or maybe a tad more. Much more like bourbon than the higher ryes noted previously. That said it is an excellent introductory rye and as noted great in cocktails.

Wild Turkey 101 (which has just recently been reintroduced) is also a lower rye content rye, closer to Rittenhouse. But it is perfectly nice as well. The WT Rye 81 proof is not so good. YMMV!

Tannins are indeed a function in part of barrel aging and the degree of temperature fluctuation a barrel is subjected to, probably among many other things (barrel entry proof for example) about which I am no expert, and rye does not necessarily have more than a similarly aged bourbon.

Wild Turkey bourbon is not particularly high in rye content. thought to be around 13%. Most major brands of bourbon are around this level. Some of the highest rye content among readily available bourbon are the Four Roses bourbons that use the "B" mashbill (OBSV is 35% rye as compared to OESV for example which is 20%). Bulleit bourbon also comes from Four Roses at present (only the Bulleit Rye comes from LDI/MGP) and has a fairly high rye mashbill.

[Hassouni]

Hm, was unaware that WT101 had such a low rye content. Be that as it may, JoNorvelleWalker, I find it FAR less cloying than most other bourbons I've had.

[EvergreenDan]

I am now intrigued to try Dan's version with Campari and Ramazzotti.

Just to be clear, I didn't create the version with Campari and Ramazzotti. I got it from someone on chwhnd. This is indeed my favorite variation.

And -- this is embarrassing -- Toby Maloney probably created the Campari / Nonino version, and perhaps intentionally (or unintentionally) changed the name to Airplane. The Ramazzotti variation is either Plane nor Airplane.

If made with Gran Classico and Amaro CioCiaro (my invention), I call it a Balsa Airplane and is also excellent.

[Rafa]

Hassouni—I'm not sure whether you've tried it yet, but Old Grand Dad 114 sounds like it'd be right up your alley. High proof, high rye, with all the spice and kick you could want. A worthy upgrade to WT101,* both stronger and more refined, and I say that as a big fan of the turkey. I prefer OGD to most ryes I've tried, especially for sipping.

*Before tanstaafl2 objects/interjects, let me state that I know that OGD isn't a Turkey product, but a Beam-owned (or I suppose soon to be Suntory-owned) brand with a unique yeast and mashbill shared only with the (inferior imo) Basil Hayden.

[campus five]

I got a bottle of Zucca probably 16 months ago, but I never really new what to do with it.

But, I recently dropped by a new branch of small chain-let called Settebello, which has certified authentic Neapolitan pizza.

Unlike the other branch I'd been to (Pasadena, Ca), this one (Marina del Rey, CA)had a proper cocktail program by Proprietors LLC, aka Alex Day and Dave Kaplan. Not only was the cocktail really standout, but I finally gave me something to use Zucca in.

Manhattan Beach (clever if only because the city of Manhattan Beach is a couple towns over from Marina Del Rey)

2 oz Bourbon

0.5 oz Cocchi Vermouth di Torrino

0.5 oz Zucca

stir, strain, coupe, orange peel