The Ultimate Roast Chicken

[patrickamory]

Great thread. I'm roasting a chicken as I write this, funnily enough. As usual, Murray's cooked the Hazan way - dry rub, stuffed with pierced lemons, trussed front and back, roasted low upside-down and right side-up, and finished high.

weinoo, as you probably know, Murray's is a cooperative of farms so the chickens vary. Bell & Evans is more consistent, but in my experience, the best Murray's chickens are better. You can, however, tell the origin of a Murray's chicken from the code on the sticker. Tonight it's 0813, which equates to a few farms along Troxelville Road in Middleburg, PA - I've Google Earthed them. Just because I can tell what farm it's from doesn't mean it's better, though I think I've done well with 0813 in the past. Will report on the taste after dinner!

[OliverB]

I just got a rotisserie for my weber and the chicken turned out great, heat was on the high side (about 350F measured through a top vent). Very tasty (I threw in a piece of oak from a tree we had to take down) and very juicy. Just a supermarket chicken from Safeway, not brined, I never brined anything.

But making it on the big green egg is still a bit better I think, haven't done that since last year, maybe I make two side by side someday. Heat in the 350-450 range, indirect with platesetter underneath, either on a "beercan" holder or on a roasting rack. Juicy, crunchy skin, perfect.

An other fun way to bbq chicken is to "leapfrog" it, where you take scissors and cut sideways around the chest but not all the way through, open it up and lay it flat. Everything cooks perfectly at the same time and it's just fun to look at, like a frog. http://www.gourmet.com/magazine/2000s/2009/06/leaping-frog-chicken has the instructions. I've done that many times, always turns out great. On the weber and on the BGE.

I never stuff or truss chicken. I never stuff anything under the skin, tried it but could not tell much of a difference since it doesn't dry out with my methods anyway.

I also smoked whole chicken, but the skin was not really edible, turned into a hard rubbery something with way too much smoke flavor. If I want smoked chicken I use skinless now.

Oh, temperature, thighs at 165 or just the "juices run clear" test.

[judiu]

Oliver, don't you find that smoking chicken without the skin results in a tough over-smoked outside layer on the meat? That's always been a problem for me...

[rotuts]

re BCC: any soda can will do with about 1/3 full of water is fine/ season the cavity first.

[Keith_W]

But - you still haven't told us what the really great secret to roast chicken is - and that's what kind of bird you're roasting. So please - let us in on that.

Hi weinoo, i'm not sure if it would make much sense to you but I use a Bannockburn free range chicken. Over here, "free range" is not a controlled or regulated term in the same way that the French have an appellation or the Italians have a DOP rating. A French Bresse chicken specifies the farming density (i.e. how many chickens are allowed per square km of land) and mandates that the chickens are fed naturally - i.e. they eat worms, insects, and whatever they can forage. An Australian "free range" chicken can be anything from a real free ranging chicken (like the Bresse chickens), to a chicken that spends most of the day and night in barns and given an hour of fresh air every day.

There are some terms that do irk me - "free range" is one of them, and so does "organic" and "chemical free". None of these terms are clearly defined under Australian law, so they are essentially meaningless. But that is a separate discussion.

[SobaAddict70]

I use Keller's method for roast chicken. I typically get my chicken from Quattro's or Belle Rouge at USGM (short for Union Square Greenmarket). No stuffing. I truss or not, depends on mood. Seasoning and cooking position are in his recipe. Works like a dream every time.




Roast poussin, spring vegetables, Chardonnay jus

[rotuts]

AsI recall the Bresse chicken is also a particular breed ( or used to be ) and in typical FR. fashion has FR. colors : blue legs, white feathers and red, you know that red stuff on top of its head.

used to anyway .... which always made me wonder if the genetics of that bird were so good why are they not grown under similar methods elsewhere: ie my back yard?

[OliverB]

I find you have to be careful with smoking chicken, I use just a small piece of wood at the beginning, something that burns off in a couple of minutes. I guess you could smoke it more and then cut off the skin, I just found the skin turned to a strange rubbery texture the two or three times I tried it. Practically inedible. If I make it in the BGE I actually don't add any smoking wood anymore, the charcoal (I use BGE brand) gives enough smoky flavor for my taste. I also don't like things too heavily smoked.

[ChrisTaylor]

But - you still haven't told us what the really great secret to roast chicken is - and that's what kind of bird you're roasting. So please - let us in on that.

Hi weinoo, i'm not sure if it would make much sense to you but I use a Bannockburn free range chicken. Over here, "free range" is not a controlled or regulated term in the same way that the French have an appellation or the Italians have a DOP rating. A French Bresse chicken specifies the farming density (i.e. how many chickens are allowed per square km of land) and mandates that the chickens are fed naturally - i.e. they eat worms, insects, and whatever they can forage. An Australian "free range" chicken can be anything from a real free ranging chicken (like the Bresse chickens), to a chicken that spends most of the day and night in barns and given an hour of fresh air every day.

There are some terms that do irk me - "free range" is one of them, and so does "organic" and "chemical free". None of these terms are clearly defined under Australian law, so they are essentially meaningless. But that is a separate discussion.

To add to what Keith is saying and go off on a few tangents of my own: I remember a while ago The Age got a bunch of chefs together and road tested a variety of commercially avaliable chickens, ranging from $8 supermaket 'free rangers' (i.e. Lilydale and Macro) to what, I think, remains the most expensive (Saskia Beer's organic chickens). It was done as a blind tasting: people weren't influenced by a sense of, shit, this bird costs 3 times as much as some of the others but isn't 3 times tastier. They also tested a number of chickens priced between those two extremes: Bannockburn, Game Farm, et al. They covered most of the chickens I've seen for sale, anyway. I usually buy Game Farm or Bannockburn but I've also bought Macro fairly often. It's easy to find. For the sake of foreigners, these chickens are more expensive than your battery farmed ones but not overly so. Macro, for instance, is a supermarket brand but is a couple of steps up from the entry-level bird and is maybe $2/kilo more. Game Farm is slightly more expensive than Macro, from memory. You can pay a lot more.

The point was, I think the 'best' bird got no more than a 70% approval rating from The Age's panel.This was the very best of them. Saskia Beer's $30 chicken wasn't that highly regarded but, then again, the worst bird got a rating of 50something%. A fair spread in prices but not in rankings (and, iirc, one of the supermarket free rangers was among the most highly regarded). I guess there's some small supplier, somewhere in Australia turning out really nice chickens but I think that we are limited. You can get amazing beef if you're prepared to pay for it (shit, if you go to Sarde's in Queen Vic you're paying only a little more for Cape Grim than you would for a regular steak somewhere else). You can get very good lamb. With chicken, tho', you can buy 'okay' birds but there doesn't seem to be anything that's truly amazing. The article sat nicely with my own experience. I've tried, over the years, most of the brands readily avaliable through supermarkets, poultry stores and so on. From barn-raised to the most expensive organic chickens. And, you know what? There isn't a huge difference. The ones in the $10-15 price range (I buy small birds and I'm guessing, Keith, you'd do the same) are either superior to the $30 chickens or aren't so inferior as to make a $15-20 price bump seem reasonable.

For comparison, the 'road runner' I had in Zimbabwe, which was cooked very simply--no brining or careful monitoring of the cooking or internal temperatures here--was vastly superior to any chicken I've ever had in Australia. I could only imagine what it would be like if you bagged the breasts and cooked them at 60C or treated the whole bird to one of the popular roasting methods used around these parts (Blumenthal, Keller or Zuni--take your pick, really). Obviously this quality isn't something you could reach with a mass produced bird, at least not at a reasonable price (altho' given Beer is charging 2-3 x as much as even some very good suppliers of chickens, it might be doable for $30) but I see no reason why a small supplier couldn't achieve similar results. It's being done with most other meats, after all. If you organised a panel of chefs or critics or regular punters to, say, rate a number of beef suppliers based on the tasting of some medium rare steaks--perhaps some cheap and cheerful stuff, some Cape Grim, some David Blackmore, some supermarket Angus (yeah) and a few others--I don't think you'd wind up with the 'best' receiving such a mediocre score as 7/10, even if you'll always get one or two individual reviewers with divergent opinions.

Edited March 30, 2013 by ChrisTaylor (log)

[Martin Fisher]

When preparing in the oven I've come to favor a combination of methods, Jacques Pépin's quick-roasted chicken, Judy Rodgers' Zuni Cafe roast chicken and Heston Blumenthal's perfect crispy roast chicken.

I dry brine the bird (Judy Rodgers.)

I butterfly the bird and cut partway through both sides of the joint between the thighs and the drumsticks as well as the joint between the wings and breast. I also pop the thigh out of the socket. This ensures that those stubborn areas cook properly when roasting hot and fast (Jacques Pépin.)

I thoroughly dry the skin (Heston Blumenthal.)

I preheat an appropriately sized cast iron skillet on medium high heat and the oven at 450 degrees.

Toss the chicken in the skillet and into the oven to roast for 30-45 minutes (Jacques Pépin.)

Juicy meat and crispy skin every time!

We raise our own chickens, I'm very picky about how they should be raised and butchered.

For a few years we raised as many as 1,300 each summer. I'm glad I don't do that anymore!!!!!!!!

~Martin

[davidkeay]

I butterfly the bird and cut partway through both sides of the joint between the thighs and the drumsticks as well as the joint between the wings and breast. I also pop the thigh out of the socket. This ensures that those stubborn areas cook properly when roasting hot and fast (Jacques Pépin.)

I thoroughly dry the skin (Heston Blumenthal.)

I preheat an appropriately sized cast iron skillet on medium high heat and the oven at 450 degrees.

Toss the chicken in the skillet and into the oven to roast for 30-45 minutes (Jacques Pépin.)

~Martin

I do the same, and am consistently happy with the results! I also like chopping the tips of the legs off (the stems, as Jacques Pepin calls them), which helps eliminate that tough extended tendon that shows up in the drumsticks.

[Martin Fisher]

I also like chopping the tips of the legs off (the stems, as Jacques Pepin calls them), which helps eliminate that tough extended tendon that shows up in the drumsticks.

Yes, that's a good idea.

Jacques video.....

http://youtu.be/ogwXvV_LcJE?t=5m18s

~Martin

[rotuts]

JP: the Dean of Cooking. forgot all about that Ck. no so sure about non-stick in 450 F ...

[rlibkind]

Easy is best. Which is why I rarely roast a whole chicken these days but can still get a chicken with great roast flavor.

I use the best bird I can easily buy (that usually means Bell & Evans or Eberle) and ask the butcher to remove the backbone and split the bird. At home I salt it for an hour then before cooking use whatever spices or herbs suit my fancy. (Last night it was a classic thyme/sage rub). I turn up all three burners of my gas grill to high. When ready I turn off back burner, apply oil to grates over that area and cook split halves skin side up. About 15 minutes in I switch positions of halves to insure even cooking, but keep them skin side up through the entire cooking process. (I also cooked the back alongside them and gnawed on that as an appetizer while the rest finished cooking.)

The 3.5 pound bird took half an hour last night. As juicy as any bird I've ever roasted with a lot less work. And the skin was as perfectly done as could be: deep mahogany, crackly thin. It tasted roasted, not grilled, because all cooking was indirect.

When I'm really ambitious I'll spatchcock the bird myself (including removal of breastbone, delicately) without splitting, then cooking by same technique, though it will take a bit longer.

[coz]

Four Story Hill Farms birds are incredible.

I've tried so many cooking techniques from the famous chefs the longest being Modernist Cuisine at Home. My favorite is Christian Delouvrier's recipe where he bastes the bird with a combination of soy sauce and butter at high temps. I love trying new roast chicken recipes but I think for a quick delicious meal this is my favorite!

[forever_young_ca]

I have been making Ina Garten's "Jeffery's Roast Chicken" or "Engagement Chicken" for several months now.

Here is the link to the receipe http://www.foodnetwork.com/recipes/ina-garten/engagement-roast-chicken-recipe/index.html

I find it is easy to prepare, and tastes fantastic. No brining, no fuss, no muss. I love lemon in anything, so this is perfect for me. I have done it with meyer lemons with even better results. I do find that it takes a bit longer than the recipe calls for, but maybe that is because I have a bigger chicken and I like the skin very crispy and the onions very soft.

I have served it for casual suppers, to rave reviews. During the first 39 years of marriage my husband never liked roast chicken - too tasteless and non descript for his taste. This roast chicken is now one of his favourite dishes.

Edited April 2, 2013 by forever_young_ca (log)

[Keith_W]

Updated the opinions list Note: if you simply say "I use Keller's recipe" I will NOT include your submission, because it is too much work for me to go hunt down his recipe for this list. Really, my idea was to start a poll but eG doesn't seem to have the option of polls. So i'm doing it manually. It's a bit annoying that people aren't following the format because it is a pain to read through the post in detail, find that not all questions have been answered, and then manually updating the list. So - if people could actually follow the format AND answer all the questions, it would be appreciated!

- Desired final cooking temperature: breast xxxC, thighs xxxC (or F).

Keith_W: breast 60C, thighs 65C

OliverB: 74C

- Stuffing: Yes or No

Keith_W: no stuffing

patrickarmory: stuffed with pierced lemon

mgaretz: no stuffing

Mjx: no stuffing

ChrisTaylor: no stuffing

OliverB: no stuffing

DiggingDogFarm: no stuffing

rlibkind: no stuffing

- Trussing: Yes or No

Keith_W: not trussed

Ttogull: trussed

patrickarmory: trussed

mgaretz: not trussed

Mjx: not trussed

ChrisTaylor: not trussed

OliverB: not trussed

DiggingDogFarm: not trussed

rlibkind: not trussed

- Cooking position: breast side up on a rack, or rotisserie, or vertical (beer can), or butterfly

Keith_W: rotisserie

FeChef: rotisserie

JoNorvelleWalker: rotisserie

Mjx: turned on a rack

ChrisTaylor: breast side up on a tray

OliverB: beer can or breast side up

DiggingDogFarm: butterfly

rlibkind: butterfly

- Cooking time: low temperature and slow, or high temperature and fast

Keith_W: low temperature with high temp finish

FeChef: high temperature

Ttogull: high temperature

patrickarmory: low temperature with high temp finish

rotuts: high temperature

mgaretz: high temperature

Mjx: medium temperature with high temp finish

ChrisTaylor: high temperature

OliverB: high temperature

DiggingDogFarm: hot skillet then high temperature oven

rlibkind: high temperature

- Heat source: electric oven, combi oven, combined (e.g. sous vide followed by oven), charcoal, or smoker

Keith_W: charcoal

FeChef: charcoal or smoker

Ttogull: oven

mgaretz: smoker

rotuts: charcoal

Mjx: oven

ChrisTaylor: oven

OliverB: charcoal

DiggingDogFarm: oven

rlibkind: gas griller

- Seasoning: none, or dry brine (includes rubs), or wet brine (includes marinades), or injection brine

Keith_W: injection brine + dry rub

FeChef: wet brine + dry rub

Ttogull: wet brine

patrickarmory: dry rub

rotuts: dry rub

Mjx: wet brine

ChrisTaylor: dry brine

DiggingDogFarm: dry brine

rlibkind: dry brine

Oh yes, here is my effort from last night. A "double" roast chicken. I call it "double" because the roast chicken was injected with stock made from another roast chicken:

[weinoo]

Easy is best. Which is why I rarely roast a whole chicken these days but can still get a chicken with great roast flavor.

I use the best bird I can easily buy (that usually means Bell & Evans or Eberle) and ask the butcher to remove the backbone and split the bird. At home I salt it for an hour then before cooking use whatever spices or herbs suit my fancy. (Last night it was a classic thyme/sage rub).

I tried the Eberle chicken last night and it's really good (WF seems to be in the process once again of messing around with the types of chickens they sell and how they sell them, but that's another story).

I probably won't be part of the "poll" above since I'm not following the format, but the dry-rub worked nicely .

[nickrey]

Chris Young, who was one of the authors of "Modernist Cuisine" and Heston Blumenthal's manager of food research, has set up a website called Chefsteps.

His recipe for ultimate roast chicken and a video demonstrating the process is at this link.

Edited April 4, 2013 by nickrey (log)

[Keith_W]

Thank you, Nick! I have bookmarked that page. He has plenty of nice little snippets in there besides the roast chicken. I spent an enjoyable couple of hours looking around at that site.

[nickrey]

And rest the roast chicken breast down before serving.

(Tip courtesy of Maggie Beer appearing on "Ask the butcher")

[DanM]

I thought I would take a straw poll to see what methods you guys consider "best practice" to cook a whole roast chicken. Please choose from the following options and elaborate as you see fit.

- Desired final cooking temperature: breast xxxC, thighs xxxC (or F).

- Stuffing: Yes or No

- Trussing: Yes or No

- Cooking position: breast side up on a rack, or rotisserie, or vertical (beer can), or butterfly

- Cooking time: low temperature and slow, or high temperature and fast

- Heat source: electric oven, combi oven, combined (e.g. sous vide followed by oven), charcoal, or smoker

- Seasoning: none, or dry brine (includes rubs), or wet brine (includes marinades), or injection brine

I think I have more or less covered all the variables. I would be interested to hear your responses.

My method is different than most. One important question is missing above; whole, broken down, spatchcocked, etc??

Stuffing - No

Trussing - No

Cooking Position - Broken down chicken, skin side up

Cooking time - low and slow - 350ish for 1.25 hours

Heat Source - Electric oven

Seasoning - Either Back of the Yards blend or Milwaukee Iron blend from The Spice house.

I roast my chicken over a bed of root veg (potatoes, turnips, celeriac, etc... depends on what is good) plus 1-2 heads of garlic and several branches of thyme in a cast iron pan. When the chicken is done, I put the root veg back in the oven to cook until the pan juices concentrate.

[JoNorvelleWalker]

I truss my chicken when I use the rotisserie. Does anyone *not* truss a chicken when using a rotisserie? Heat source is an open air electric grill. I like my chicken well done. I do not measure temperature but I cook it till it is falling off the bone. I don't stuff it because the stuffing would just fall out. For seasoning I have been using a Moroccan mechoui recipe from Paula Wolfert, but in the past I have used just butter, or an Indian inspired recipe of yoghurt and ground nuts. My cooking time is high temperature and slow, typically a couple hours.

When I am in a hurry I sometimes roast a chicken breast side up in the oven, but the results are never as good as the rotisserie.

[Rozin Abbas]

dry brining: not recommended. This method draws moisture out of the chicken and results in a taste and texture resembling cured meat.

Dry brining only draws moisture out initially but it is reabsorbed. I don't think it tastes like cured meat or the texture either but I suppose length has something to do with this. Kenji over at Serious Eat's is a proponent of it over a wet brine.

I don't recall reading about injecton brining or why Modernist Cuisine prefers it but I'll have to go back and read it. That aside, I think brining in general is overrated, especially wet brines.

[sigma]

I am the opposite of most of you. I salt a day or two before, truss with a needle, stuff with a couple cloves of garlic and some thyme, cover in soft butter and cook at high temp in a traditional gas rotisserie until it is 62 in the leg, about 40 minutes or so for a 3.5 lb chicken. It comes out very well.