Cheese (2008– )

[Dave Hatfield]

I've got a great French cheese story for you, but first lets see if we have any real French speakers/ culture fiends out there.

The story concerns a cheese called: crottin de Chavignol. Not such a rare cheese, but the question is as follows:

What does "crottin" mean? Or to put it another way what is a 'crottin'?

No prizes other than fame on eGullet.

[suzilightning]

I've got a great French cheese story for you, but first lets see if we have any real French speakers/ culture fiends out there.

The story concerns a cheese called: crottin de Chavignol. Not such a rare cheese, but the question is as follows:

What does "crottin" mean? Or to put it another way what is a 'crottin'?

No prizes other than fame on eGullet.

←

does it mean button? as in a small button of cheese?

[Dave Hatfield]

I've got a great French cheese story for you, but first lets see if we have any real French speakers/ culture fiends out there.

The story concerns a cheese called: crottin de Chavignol. Not such a rare cheese, but the question is as follows:

What does "crottin" mean? Or to put it another way what is a 'crottin'?

No prizes other than fame on eGullet.

←

does it mean button? as in a small button of cheese?

←

Sorry, Suzi, but actually the answer is somewhat rude.

[suzilightning]

Sorry, Suzi, but actually the answer is somewhat rude.

←

ok, dave

does it have something to do with it's dung-like appearance?

[Katie Meadow]

Is it a sheep's milk cheese, Dave? Crotte means to befoul, yeah? I'm with Suzi, and assume that cheese is some good s--t, c'est vrai? Do I want to know how they age it?

We buy a cheese called a Mutton Button here. Maybe what you've got is just a Mutton Butt?

Edited April 1, 2008 by Katie Meadow (log)

[Dave Hatfield]

Suzi & Katie, you were both pretty close. He's the story:

Last week Linda was a her Anglo- French meeting where both Nationalities try to help one another with their language skills. They were discussing the menu of a restaurant where they were proposing to go for a meal. The cheese course was; "Croustillant de crottin de Chavignol et son confit de figues".

Linda pipes up & asks "what's a crottin"? Immediate peals of laughter from all of the French speakers, puzzlement from the English speakers. Once the laughter died down Annie & Bernadette explained the a 'crottin' is a dung dropping from a horse, a sheep, a rabbit.

Thus (as you guessed) the name for the cheese from its shape & color. It turns out that a 'crote' is a dog dropping and that a 'bouse' is a cow pat.

They don't teach you these things in language school do they?

Crottin de Chavignol is from the Loire and is made from goats milk. It only ages 2-3 days in it's little pots then decanted and aged for at least another 10 day. At this point the flavor is mild. If allowed to age longer it it will pick up flavor and lose weight.

So, think of this story and, hopefully, smile the next time you enjoy a crottin de Chavignol.

[Katie Meadow]

Okay, I can see the cartoon right now: the cute goat with a chef's toque cheerfully straddling the conveyer belt and dropping perfect crottins while the cheesemonger with his clipboard happily check's em off! the French have such an earthy sense of humor, non?

[gariotin]

That's a good one, Katie!

[LindsayAnn]

I just got myself three VERY very nice cheese selections from pastoral cheese in Wrigleyville, Chicago. Two of the three I have had before - one is new to me (at least I THINK it is, I am always buying new cheeses, and I am stupid enough to NOT remember - or pay attention - to the cheese's names). So, the first two I have had before, the last is new (and probably the one I am enjoying the most of the three, at this particular point in time at least):

1.) Keen's English Farmhouse Cheddar - cows milk. This lovely cheese is from England. I love the fact that it is sooo aged that it has the little crystals randomly throughout the cheese. I love this. this is a nutty, sharp cheese. It is dense (not smooth in texture, more crumbly due to it's firmness - I like it like that thou - so those are all positive marks).

2.) Mont st. Francis, Raw Goats Milk - from Indiana. This beauty is a favorite of mine - but I haven't purchased it in a-while....mainly because of the absence of our lovely farmers market (damn chicago winters) - thus - this is a Capriole Farms cheese....the goats cheese vendor in Indiana that I always gloat about. I LOVE this producer - my favorite. I enjoy buying it in the summer even more because I get the satisfaction of knowing that I am buying it RIGHT from the hands of the farmers - fresh fresh cheese is soooo yummy. I cannot wait for summer!

3.) Here we go - the new one (for me it's new, I am sure it's not new on the market). Winnemere, raw cows milk from vermont. It is so creamy and OOZY - I love oozy cheese. It has a nice rind that is darker in color. MMMMM It is sooooo wipe - maybe that is why i like it so much. The cheese monger told me (as I was tasting it) that is was more pronounced in flavor that it normally is (she tasted it when I did) - she was shocked at the flavor. She said "oh wow, it's stronger/stinkier than I thought - a lot stronger than the last time I sampled it. It must be because of it's stage of ripeness."

You see, after I tasted the winnemere I tasted a different cheese. I tried the winnemere first - than this other cheese (dont know the name since i didnt buy it, refer back to the beginning of this post where I describe my lack of remembering/paying attention to the names of cheeses that I sample). Right before I tried the cheese that I did not purchase I asked "is this cheese that you're cutting a sample of for me now stronger/stinkier than the Winnemere?". She responded "Yes, it's a bit stinkier". So - naturally I was psyched to taste it. After tasting I commented "Hmm...it is actually much milder to my pallet - that is weird!?!? The Winnemere is much stinkier!". That is when she decided to sample the winnemere...and as she did she said "Wow, you are 100% right - the winnemere is much stinkier than I ever remember it being!". And then she said "You DO like stinky cheese, don't you?".

It is soo good - if you can find it GET it. MMMMMM

[jsmeeker]

how does everyone deal with "stinky cheese" in their fridge?

The other weekend, I bought some cheeses that I had before. I will say that this thread is what insprired me to do so. Now, I can't for the life of me remember what it was. But it was French. And it was cows milk. It was soft, but not oozy soft. I opened it up the day after I bought it. It had a slight "stink" too it. But nothing close to being offensive. I ate some. I expected it to have a stonger flavor than it did. Actually, it had very little flavor. I was dissapointed. I wrapped it back up and stuck it back in the fridge.

A few days later, I noticed this odor in my freezer. I couldn't for the life of me figure out what it was from. My feezer never gets a "funk" like that. I was checking and sniffing things in the freezer, looking for the source. Couldn't track it down. Back in the fridge, I realized it was that cheese!!

Ughh.. How did it stink up my freezer? My ice seemed to have picked some of the scent, too. That's BAD because I don't want my cocktails

smelling of this cheese.

So, I tossed the cheese.

<sigh>

What am I supposed to do here? How should I store "fine" cheeses that have a "stink" to them? I just can't have stinky ice. That's not gonna fly with me and my love of cocktails.

[LindsayAnn]

jsmeeker,

What do you do about the stink? You deal with it - it's really the BEST option.

However, things that help: baking soda in the fridge (put the lil carton in there, opened - right near the cheese. It will absorb *some* of the smell. Or - purchase a small itty bitty fridge only for cheese/stinky things....you could also put aluminum pop/beer cans in the mini - the smell should NOT penetrate the aluminum.

What I have done.....is limited the purchasing of such offendors...which is a sucky solution - since i love the stinkers! I could deal with lingering smell in the fridge (I don't LIKE it, but I COULD deal with it) - its the fiance who could NOT. And - he really couldnt....he has SUCH a weak stomache....I couldnt put him through it more than every so often.....he used to smell the odor when he was on the couch and I would open the fridge (kitchen to the family room...now THAT is a stinker)....put it this way - he likes KRAFT MILD OR MEDIUM cheddar.....sharp is TOO strong for him. Oh waht opposite pallets we have. Well - I take that back, I love alot of the stuff he loves (including the kraft), it's just that my likes FAR extend outside of his limited choices......that's all

So - sorry I wasn't much help!

[jsmeeker]

I guess it boils down to what I like more. Right now, it's cocktails..

The sad thing is that the cheese itself really wasn't *that* stinky and it really didn't have much flavor. if it had a lot of good flavor, I probably would have complained less. (though I might have changed my mind if my Negronis had an odd funk to them)

I guess I'll stick to my cheddars and mozzerella and parmagiano ands grueyeres and so on for the time being. But thanks for posting those tips.

[gariotin]

Since I am so into cheese, and sell it for a living, I don't often own up to the fact that I have absolutely no sense of smell. (I had an accident several years ago that severed the nerves from my brain to my nose.)

The first thing my daughter does when she comes to visit and opens my fridge, freaks out about how awful it smells! When she tracks down the culprit, it is inevitably some nice fresh stinky piece of wonderful cheese.

I think it's kinda funny that I have no idea that my fridge, (and probably all the rest of the food in it) reeks, and I go happily about my business....

[Dave Hatfield]

My solution to stinky cheeses is just to eat all of them before they ever make it to the fridge.

I buy fresh & try to get 'just' enough although that's hard sometimes.

If I have to keep them, overnight for instance, then they go in the cave with the wine. So far I haven't opened any cheese stink wine so I guess 'm doing Ok.

Other cheeses just get wrapped in the special paper that all of the cheese sellers here seem to use. It seems to let the cheese get air without letting out all of the smell.

[pennylane]

I do what Dave does and try to buy small quantities and eat it right away. I can get my husband to help if I give it to him with crackers and fruit and stuff.

If I'm really desperate, I wrap the cheese in several plastic bags. I know that's a big no-no in the cheese world. But it really works. And frankly I didn't find that it affected the cheese much.

[LindsayAnn]

But Epoisses (sp?) you CANNOT (at least not here) but it in small quantities ---only comes in the little wooden tube - and they way they sell them they are big (like 12 servings of Epoisses, which is like 4 servings for me....so it has to be put back in the fridge because I would never throw out half a thing of Epoisses - too expensive to do that!).

[LindsayAnn]

pennylane - my fiance will NOT eat the cheese with me, not alone, not with crackers, not with fruit (greg eat cheese WITH fruit? No way!). Not in recipes. Not, not...not at all....it's not getting past his lips. Not even a bland brie. If its soft and squishy he doesn't like it. Now add in smelly - NO WAY!

[jsmeeker]

I guess if I want to really buy several cheeses to try them out, I should have a cheese party. Then we could have cocktails.

[suzilightning]

jeff- if i have a stinky cheese i wrap it in parchment then put them in a zip top bag. course i try not to buy more than we can eat within 3-4 days.

cocktail party and wine tasting? count me in.

here is what we have to try this weekend.

one of my favorite blues!!

the next two i haven't had so it will be fun.

i'm actually thinking about serving the last two with an english ale.

[heidih]

I am just wondering, for those that are willing yo go the plastic bag route, have you ever tried a glass jar? I started this method with strawberries and garlic (not together!) I know the cheeses need to breathe, but if you are trying to trap in the smell the glass jar seems to do it without the moisture and slime issue of plastic zippy bags. Throwing it out there...

[gariotin]

Suzi -

You do not know how lucky you are to have that piece of Roaring 40s, so enjoy it knowing you are one of the few Americans with some!

Many people have heard about the terrible drought in Australia - it has been going on for years. Milk is becoming scarcer and scarcer and since the R40s is made on King Island, their only source of milk comes from the herds on the island. At the moment, they have stopped making cream, to put all available milk into cheese, but are only able to produce 500 Roarings a week. I am doing my best to get as much put aside for export to the States, but demand has certainly been outpacing supply, and the cheese is unavailable more than there is product to sell.

We are all hoping that the situation gets better over there, because it is a wonderful cheese and people really enjoy it.

As to the Black Mountain and Tintern, they would be terrific with beer or ale. They are made by a nice family-owned company in Wales, called the Abergavenny Cheese Co and while they are not the most sophisticated cheeses in the world, they are very likable and easy to eat.

[suzilightning]

Suzi -

You do not know how lucky you are to have that piece of Roaring 40s, so enjoy it knowing you are one of the few Americans with some!

Many people have heard about the terrible drought in Australia - it has been going on for years.  Milk is becoming scarcer and scarcer and since the R40s is made on King Island, their only source of milk comes from the herds on the island.  At the moment, they have stopped making cream, to put all available milk into cheese, but are only able to produce 500 Roarings a week. I am doing my best to get as much put aside for export to the States, but demand has certainly been outpacing supply, and the cheese is unavailable more than there is product to sell.

We are all hoping that the situation gets better over there, because it is a wonderful cheese and people really enjoy it.

←

wow- didn't know about that! the place i bought this had about 5 or 6 of those little wheels all going for 9.50 US.

[pennylane]

So I read this thing about how it was the National Cheese Day here in France. And apparently only 15% of French cheese is made from raw milk. That explains why I am always seeing pasteurised cheese here. I try to avoid it - is that the right thing to do? Is the raw milk cheese always better?

[tamiam]

Gariotin - Thanks for the info on Roaring 40s. I had no idea and it makes me appreciate how lucky we are to get some, and in our own small way, hopefully help support the people there.

I had an interesting cheese experience recently. About the ultimately opposite end of the spectrum from hand-crafted small batch cheese, which, being pretty new to cheese-loving, I have yet to experience in person. In my work as an environmental consultant I recently had the chance to call upon a place that takes in 4.5 million pounds of raw milk and turns it into 450,000 pounds of cheese and 300,000 pounds of whey every day, seven days per week. The products include cheese, whey powder, milk powder, condensed skim milk, sweet cream, milk protein concentrate, and whey cream. Amazingly enough, that huge amount of milk is all sourced locally, within a relatively small radius.

I took pictures for you folks on the thread, but I am too inept to post them easily, so words will have to do. Here's the general process: The milk is tested for the level of antibiotics and, if acceptable, stored in large silos. Then it is pasteurized (180,000 lb/hr), inoculated with culture, and placed in smaller vats to form curds. Curds are drained (whey comes off) and salted. Cheese is vacuum pressed into 40 lb blocks for aging and shipment. The cheese from this plant which is located way over here in the northwest is shipped all over the U.S. At retail you will not find the well known label of the factory where it is produced. It all goes to secondary packers. You may have eaten some of this cheese, especially if you ever bought a grocery store brand Jack or Cheddar. I dont have a sense of their share of the commodity cheese market, but it must be significant.

Amazing experience. While I have been in other types of factories, this was my first time in a huge food production plant. Putting that word "production" between "food" and "plant" is a bit foreign to me, but it was fascinating nonetheless. Spotless. Folks who knew what they were doing at a very high level. Creating some serious jobs in a place where they are scarce. Great logistics.

Damn, I wish I liked their cheese.

[gariotin]

Tamiam,

That's a great description of a large, commodity milk & cheese processor - they may not make the most outstanding cheese, but the majority of cheese in world gets made just that way.

Smaller cheesemakers just do it on a scaled-down level, but there's a whole lot of milk out there to be processed, and the big guys definitely have their place. Hey - we all grew up on Cracker Barrel and Velveeta, and we used to think that's what cheese was all about.