Sous Vide: Recipes, Techniques & Equipment, 2011

[mmille24]

Didn't like how the 75 degree egg for 15 minutes came out. Egg white was far too runny for my liking.

Going to try the other method (ie 65 degrees for 40 minutes and finish off in boiling water for 2.5 minutes).

Let us know how it goes. It is possible that you needed another minute or two at 75C or you might need to raise the temperature slightly. Have you checked the calibration of your cooking device? Eggs are the thing that I cook that are most sensitive to issues of calibration.

The temperature in my device is rather consistent. I tried leaving in a few minutes more and the yellow started to set and the white was still too runny for my liking.

Edited July 30, 2011 by mmille24 (log)

[Robert Jueneman]

I must admit that I still have not tried Douglas' latest method at 75C, perhaps because I'm still trying for nirvana with the Khymos 6xC technique. I made eggs today SV at 63C for 70 minutes, to a cool bath for 15 minutes, boiled for 3 minutes, and again to a cool bath for a few minutes before serving. Best results yet.

To Peter's assertion of rubbery whites using this method: yes, there is a very thin layer of white that can be said is rubbery, but this adheres to the shell and mostly unnoticeable unless you make a real effort to scrape it out.

I completely agree.

I've written up a six page blog, complete with pictures, showing the results with both a 2 minute and 3 minute pre-boil step, followed by chilling for 30 minutes to room temperature, then cooking for 60, 75, and 125 minutes at 63C. The blog has been posted on the Fresh Meals Solutions site (the makers of the Sous Vide Magic), but their new web site is still under construction, perhaps for the next week or so. Check www.freshmealssolutions.com periodically, and I'll post a note once it is available.

But the 3 minute pre-boil followed by 125 minute yolk cooking was fantastic. The egg yolk held together very nicely, there was very little egg white around it (there was a thin coating that stuck to the egg shell which I didn't bother to scrape out, and the yolk itself had a consistency of honey -- not too runny, and not too firm. Perfect!

[mmille24]

So here is a 63C egg for 50 minutes, dipped in ice bath for 15 minutes, then thrown in boiling water, then back in ice bath so I can handle the egg.

What I found doing it in this method was:

1) Egg Yoke consistency incredible - far superior to 15 minute at 75C - far superior to traditional method

2) Better to put egg into rolling boil than actual boil. Actual boil cracked my egg.

3) >=3 minutes better than <= 3 minutes in boiling water.

4) You lose a lot of the egg white to the shell

Conclusion: I think if you want an absolutely incredible yolk than go this way, if you want to have some egg white with your yolk than you can't beat traditional methods for poaching an egg.

[jmolinari]

Pedro, thanks for the table. I think your next step is to make it into a slide rule for varying final meat temps That would be awesome!

LOL! Seriously, there is no need for different final meat temperatures. Why? The S-shaped form of the heating curve is always the same. In the same time that starting from 5°C in a 55°C water bath will arrive at 54.5°C, it will arrive at 44.6°C in a 45.0°C bath or at 64.4°C in a 65.0°C bath, an irrelevant difference.

But wont the pasteurization times be different for different temps, therefore requiring different values on the chart?

[PedroG]

Pedro, thanks for the table. I think your next step is to make it into a slide rule for varying final meat temps That would be awesome!

LOL! Seriously, there is no need for different final meat temperatures. Why? The S-shaped form of the heating curve is always the same. In the same time that starting from 5°C in a 55°C water bath will arrive at 54.5°C, it will arrive at 44.6°C in a 45.0°C bath or at 64.4°C in a 65.0°C bath, an irrelevant difference.

But wont the pasteurization times be different for different temps, therefore requiring different values on the chart?

You're right, but space is limitied, so I had to prioritize.

[PedroG]

So here is a 63C egg for 50 minutes, dipped in ice bath for 15 minutes, then thrown in boiling water, then back in ice bath so I can handle the egg.

What I found doing it in this method was:

1) Egg Yoke consistency incredible - far superior to 15 minute at 75C - far superior to traditional method

2) Better to put egg into rolling boil than actual boil. Actual boil cracked my egg.

3) >=3 minutes better than <= 3 minutes in boiling water.

4) You lose a lot of the egg white to the shell

Conclusion: I think if you want an absolutely incredible yolk than go this way, if you want to have some egg white with your yolk than you can't beat traditional methods for poaching an egg.

You might try 63°C/50', cool, plus 80°C or 75°C for a time you have to find out to set the white without making it rubbery.

[jmolinari]

Pedro, thanks for the table. I think your next step is to make it into a slide rule for varying final meat temps That would be awesome!

LOL! Seriously, there is no need for different final meat temperatures. Why? The S-shaped form of the heating curve is always the same. In the same time that starting from 5°C in a 55°C water bath will arrive at 54.5°C, it will arrive at 44.6°C in a 45.0°C bath or at 64.4°C in a 65.0°C bath, an irrelevant difference.

But wont the pasteurization times be different for different temps, therefore requiring different values on the chart?

You're right, but space is limitied, so I had to prioritize.

Right, of course, but my point was that one cannot just assume the S-shaped heating curve b/c that wouldn't take into account the pasteurization times.

[e_monster]

Didn't like how the 75 degree egg for 15 minutes came out. Egg white was far too runny for my liking.

Going to try the other method (ie 65 degrees for 40 minutes and finish off in boiling water for 2.5 minutes).

Let us know how it goes. It is possible that you needed another minute or two at 75C or you might need to raise the temperature slightly. Have you checked the calibration of your cooking device? Eggs are the thing that I cook that are most sensitive to issues of calibration.

The temperature in my device is rather consistent. I tried leaving in a few minutes more and the yellow started to set and the white was still too runny for my liking.

Have you calibrated it against a thermometer of known accuracy? A set-up can hold temperature with great stability but still be off by a degree or more and with eggs that makes a huge difference. So, if you have never checked it against a known standard, you won't know whether when your machine reads 75C that it is 75C and not something else.

[PedroG]

Pedro, thanks for the table. I think your next step is to make it into a slide rule for varying final meat temps That would be awesome!

LOL! Seriously, there is no need for different final meat temperatures. Why? The S-shaped form of the heating curve is always the same. In the same time that starting from 5°C in a 55°C water bath will arrive at 54.5°C, it will arrive at 44.6°C in a 45.0°C bath or at 64.4°C in a 65.0°C bath, an irrelevant difference.

But wont the pasteurization times be different for different temps, therefore requiring different values on the chart?

You're right, but space is limitied, so I had to prioritize.

Right, of course, but my point was that one cannot just assume the S-shaped heating curve b/c that wouldn't take into account the pasteurization times.

I was referring to heating times. Of course pasteurizing times are different for different bath temperatures, but there is no room left to incorporate 33 columns for all the pasteurization times. I'll try to squeeze in one more column when Douglas will have calculated the heating times for frozen fish.

I recommend you copy all the tables from Douglas' guide, paste them together on 2 or 3 sheets and glue them to your kitchen door.

[mmille24]

You might try 63°C/50', cool, plus 80°C or 75°C for a time you have to find out to set the white without making it rubbery.

I didn't like the consistency of the whites at 75C. Maybe 85C for 3 minutes would be better?

Edited July 31, 2011 by mmille24 (log)

[PedroG]

That's just at the limit of ovalbumin denaturation. After trying you will know. We should appreciate your report with photos.

[rotuts]

yest. I SV'd some tri-tips

this is not a common cut in NE as I was under the impression most of it goes to California for the grill. Ive had it in CA a lot that way.

but it was on Sale, so Id try.

I had 2 2lb pieces and I cut them along the grain into three pieces each, so that out of the bag you could cut them easily against the grain for either thin RBeef sandwiches or as a Hot Roast.

i seasoned 1/2 of the packets with Sauer's Prime Rib and Roast seasoning

http://www.cfsauer.com/products.asp?id=24

and the other 1/2 with Penzy's Chicago steak. CS has been a long long favorite for me but the Prime Rib is catching up fast. it has rosemary in it a flavor I love on Roast Beef.

Baldwin suggests 6 - 8 hours I chose 131 as I love rare beef. I probably would like 125 but you know how that goes.

4 bags were pulled at 8 hours and two left for 10 total. chilled.

i just devoured a 10 hour Roast Beef Seasoning sliced thin

I was astonished at the fantastic Roast Beef flavor of the meat. see: devoured above

this was what beef should taste like for me. and it was not just the seasoning that made this great it was the flavor of the Tip itself.

but it might have benefited longer in the SV for tenderness. granted this was thin cut for a sandwich. the beef never made it to a sandwich see devoured above.

how long have people here SV Tri-Tip at 131? Im back to the store tomorrow for a lot more of this cut. will have to pull out the 38 qt cooler and SVM rig.

Ill pot the bags unopened from the first trial in that to give them a few more hours in the SV

so the two questions are:

1) how long for you for Tri-tip beef? 2) can you toss a cooled bag back into the SV to add tenderness?

if you are getting something anyway from Sauers and love traditional roast beef flavor get a ton os the Roast Beef Rub.

thanks

Edited August 14, 2011 by rotuts (log)

[rotuts]

another question re SV and 'dry age at home'

in the Pre SV times i used to 'dry age' steaks in my refrig for 3 - 4 days being very careful re contamination then cook them on the hot grill or freeze for another outing.

Ive read several interesting threads here about home Dry Aging.

if one were to DAge some beef for a few days carefully then do the SV

the SV give the rare and tender part

would that Dry age come throught?

thanks

[Robert Jueneman]

You might try 63°C/50', cool, plus 80°C or 75°C for a time you have to find out to set the white without making it rubbery.

I didn't like the consistency of the whites at 75C. Maybe 85C for 3 minutes would be better?

I think that depends on what you want. In my case, I wanted the yolk only, with no whites, and certainly not gibbery, snotty whites. So for me, 63C for 125 minutes was just right for the yolk, then cool, and then 3 minutes in gently boiling water (so as not to crack the egg) congealed the whites to the point where they adhered to the shell, and the yolk came out very cleanly.

If you are trying to make a soft-boiled egg with whites, maybe to serve on toast, then perhaps a lower temperature would work.

Fortunately, eggs are a lot less expensive than a pound of sirloin, much less a kilo of foie gras, so you can afford to experiment! Cook two or three, or maybe four, and pull them out at varying times, then try higher or lower temperatures.

[Robert Jueneman]

yest. I SV'd some tri-tips

this is not a common cut in NE as I was under the impression most of it goes to California for the grill. Ive had it in CA a lot that way.

but it was on Sale, so Id try.

I had 2 2lb pieces and I cut them along the grain into three pieces each, so that out of the bag you could cut them easily against the grain for either thin RBeef sandwiches or as a Hot Roast.

i seasoned 1/2 of the packets with Sauer's Prime Rib and Roast seasoning

http://www.cfsauer.com/products.asp?id=24

and the other 1/2 with Penzy's Chicago steak. CS has been a long long favorite for me but the Prime Rib is catching up fast. it has rosemary in it a flavor I love on Roast Beef.

Baldwin suggests 6 - 8 hours I chose 131 as I love rare beef. I probably would like 125 but you know how that goes.

so the two questions are:

1) how long for you for Tri-tip beef? 2) can you toss a cooled bag back into the SV to add tenderness?

if you are getting something anyway from Sauers and love traditional roast beef flavor get a ton os the Roast Beef Rub.

thanks

Isn't it interesting how different cuts of meat are or are not available in different parts of the country. I doubt that it is due to scarcity (all tri-tips going to CA), but just regional preferences.

I cook a chuck steak for 24 hours at 131F, and could even go longer, I suppose.

Tri-tip ought to be more tender than chuck, and so perhaps 24 hours would be too long, but on the other hand, I don't think it is going to turn into mush at that point, and there is also the convenience factor to consider.

[e_monster]

Isn't it interesting how different cuts of meat are or are not available in different parts of the country. I doubt that it is due to scarcity (all tri-tips going to CA), but just regional preferences.

I cook a chuck steak for 24 hours at 131F, and could even go longer, I suppose.

Tri-tip ought to be more tender than chuck, and so perhaps 24 hours would be too long, but on the other hand, I don't think it is going to turn into mush at that point, and there is also the convenience factor to consider.

It might be a name thing. Tri-tip is called Bottom Sirloin in some parts of the country (which is what it apparently used to be called everywhere until someone in Texas started calling it Tri-Tip to see if it would sell better -- and it did).

For tri-tip my recommendation is around 7 hours at 132 to 133F. 12 hours is fine but 24 hours tends to result in it being too soft. At least to my palate. I finish it off with my Iwatani torch.

I also prefer to cook it and then let it rest in the bag on the counter for a a while before torching.

[lesliec]

I had a 'best-ever' experience with duck breast last night.

Previously I've used confit-type time/temp for both breast and legs. There's been no problem with this - in fact, the last lot of legs I did (82°C for 10-12 hours) was also a best-ever - but last night I decided to treat the breast more as I would chicken. Three hours at 65°, followed by a blast of ultrahot oil on the skin side, gave a beautifully tender, juicy result. Highly recommended.

[ScottyBoy]

You were using 82c for breast too?

Oh yes my friend, even down to 55c I would recommend for breast. And take it to the next level, remove the skin before cooking and lay between sheet pans in the over to make a duck skin cracker!

[avaserfi]

You were using 82c for breast too?

Oh yes my friend, even down to 55c I would recommend for breast. And take it to the next level, remove the skin before cooking and lay between sheet pans in the over to make a duck skin cracker!

That's pretty much what I do. 54.4C until cooked through and crisp the skin in the oven. Works perfectly.

[lesliec]

You were using 82c for breast too?

Yep - 82 works fine; you just get a much softer texture (as with confit legs). But I'm keen to play with lower temps. I'll try your 55 next time.

Crispy duck skin is known in these parts as 'qwackling'. Not sure if that's original ...

Scotty, I'm hoping to reprise your Arzak experience next month. Very much looking forward to it.

[ScottyBoy]

Arzak was the best, I'm very jealous.

Edited August 16, 2011 by ScottyBoy (log)

[rotuts]

I thought Id report back on my Tri-Tip experiments so far:

from a single TT i cut three pieces along the grain about equal size. placed in SV bags with Sauer's Prime Rib and Roast Seasoning Rub so that I would cut them against the grain:

10 hr 12 hr 14 hr at 131 F.

10 was tasty but a little too chewy 12 was better, but only a little bit 14 was excellent: not mushy bright red color excellent RB flavor with still a little tooth on it

I used the "drippings" for an excellent RB French dip sandwich or what ever the current name for that is.

I did a 24 hr earlier and as respondents noted: it was a little mealy and mushy. the bright red color was gone.

an OK sandwich, but not up to par for this group. it had lost that Big Beef Flavor, and was just Cow. not unlike the beef sliced for you from the deli, which is probably from the round.

doing a BIg SV tonight with 4 TT's == 17 SV bags. one TT will be cut in 4 not 3.

very tempted to leave a few bags to 16 hrs.

pushing my luck the 14 hr TT was some of the best RB ive had. Big Beef Flavor, some tooth,

Ive had this success a few time with shoulder cuts, but I think those went 48-72 hrs.

[PedroG]

PID Tuning Guide Release 2

Finally, the new version of the PID tuning guide (authored by Frank Hsu, Peter Black, Robert Jueneman and Peter Gruber aka PedroG) is available for download. It contains new chapters:

• Ar: Integral Limit aka Anti – reset windup
  
• Output power Limit %
  
• Autotuning percentage
  
• Impact of Thermodynamic Properties of a cooker on PID-Tuning
  

It is copyright protected by FreshMealsSolutions, but Frank Hsu of FreshMealsSolutions explicitly gave permission to make the guide available for download in the eGullet forum, but not for publication on other websites (except his own of course) or otherwise.

PID-tuning-guide_R2_V006.pdf

[rotuts]

thanks PG !

[Simon Lewinson]

Hi all, I have been sous-vide cooking for a few months now with great results but I now have a question for the learned chefs.

I have been given a piece of venison that came from a large, older animal. This animal was a sambar deer and the meat is renowned as being very difficult to cook. I got approximately 6Kg of the backstrap,which I have portiuoned into pieces of aabout 750g. These were seasoned with salt, pepper and dried gbarlic and packed with a glug of extra virgin olive oil. They hhave had 72 hours at 54C (130F) and are still quite tough. The flavour is excellent, is rare and extremely moist but very cchewy.

I have put the remaining pieces back for a longer soak but would love comments and thoughts on how long to leave it in for.

My equipment is basic - a 5L deep fryer with a TET612 PID controller. I vacuum packed the meat quite hard - I have a Chinese chamber sealer that will just boil room temperature water after 60 seconds.

I am tempted to leave it in for another 48 hours but do not want to ruin it.

Thanks in advance

Simon