Sous Vide: Recipes, Techniques & Equipment (Part 7)

[therippa]

If he can find someone to go diving with, I'll have three of them tomorrow night. I was going to have him cook up one the old fashioned way, and I was going to sv the other two (one with butter in the bag). I still think I'm going to let it go for 24 hours to break down the collagen.

Does anyone remember the reason why we only sv shellfish for 40 minutes or so?

[eac]

+1 for Under Pressure. I've done recipes with liquid in the bag, and I don't have a chamber packer (I wish). I don't have a FoodSaver, either. I just use ziploc bags; if there's liquid in the bag, it conveniently fills most/all of what would be air pockets without a liquid. Rendered or melted fat is the best for that; I've gotten ziploc bags that looked a hell of a lot like they were vacuum-sealed when doing duck confit this way.

Everything I've tried from Under Pressure ("pastrami" duck breast (60 C, 20 min), duck legs and tongues confit (85 C, 8 hours), vanilla ice cream (85 C down to 82 C over 20 min)) came out exactly perfectly as specified. I don't have an immersion circulator, either; I have an Auber PID and an industrial food warmer. I've also gotten good results with the Auber plugged into an electric griddle with a pot of water on top.

Compression is a pretty small portion of the book. The problem is that the vegetable section is first, and most fruits and vegetables are compressed to flash-marinate them, so when you leaf through the book at the bookstore, you say WTF, what the hell does that do, and run screaming. I did this, and regret it.

Under Pressure is a lot closer to The French Laundry Cookbook Part 2 than to a study of specifically sous vide. A fair amount of the stuff in it is sous vide, but that's just because that's what they do there, which in turn is just because it tastes better and is more consistent for a fair amount of stuff. There's also a huge amount of traditional stuff, too: all the old standby veal stock, "quick" sauces, etc are still there, and you'll find that you spend more of your time and attention in each recipe on those things (since sous vide by nature doesn't require tending the pot).

The only problem with it is the previously mentioned danger zone crap, so no recipes with cooking temperatures below 60 C, even though the introduction mentions medium-rare short ribs, which are fundamentally less than 60 C for 25-50 hours. There is some medium-rare stuff in the book, but it's tender cuts cooked at 60 C for short enough of a time that most of it doesn't get above 55 C.

[KennethT]

If he can find someone to go diving with, I'll have three of them tomorrow night. I was going to have him cook up one the old fashioned way, and I was going to sv the other two (one with butter in the bag). I still think I'm going to let it go for 24 hours to break down the collagen.

Does anyone remember the reason why we only sv shellfish for 40 minutes or so?

Most shellfish is pretty tender, and if cooked too long turns mushy... octopus can be cooked long time, and I'd imagine that abalone would be good that way too, especially if it has lots of collagen in the muscle.

[therippa]

Hmm, I see here that David Chang does it at 180 for 3 hours...

http://www.nowness.com/day/2010/3/4/429/momofuku-at-home

I might try that instead.

[ScottyBoy]

Can finally get ahold of serious meat wholesale. Some Snake River Farms Kobe short ribs. See you in 48 hours meat!

[therippa]

Can finally get ahold of serious meat wholesale. Some Snake River Farms Kobe short ribs. See you in 48 hours meat!

Christ those look spectacular...I see you live in Oakland, can I drive over the bridge and have some of those Friday?

[IndyRob]

Holy crap. That's some serious food porn. It looks like butter with some meat in it.

Anyway, regarding Keller's book, the thing I found after I got it is that he's maddeningly specific about ingredients. If you're not willing or able to get your radishes from "Jermaine, under the 146th street bridge, between the hours of 2:00PM and 4:00PM on Wednesday or Thursday" then all bets are off. Yes, that's an exaggeration. But not far off.

I learned a couple of valuable facts (primarily that you can overcook sous vide) and some interesting techniques, but won't be cooking through it.

[eac]

Yes, but if you *do* go there between 2 and 4 pm, the results are spectacular.

I did drive to Sonoma County Poultry and personally talk to his duck man Jim Reichardt to pick up a duck, and got regaled with accounts of how (paraphrased) he asked Corey Lee whether you really have to use all that salt to cure the duck legs for duck confit, and they said no, not really, it's jus to fill the container and make sure all the surfaces have salt touching them. And the duck was noticeably better than the duck I tried from other places.

So the specificity of ingredients isn't all bad. And the stuff worked just fine with the other ducks. It was still spectacular, but didn't have that extra oomph from the super-duper duck.

[jaymer]

I just wanted to report that this method of rendering lard --

f you really want to render the fat well you must grind or homogenize the fat with water first. Put the fat to render in a blender with water (nearly to cover). Blend it until it is very fine and smooth.

...

4. Seal the fat-shake mix in a sous vide bag and cook in a water bath or other method at 180F/82C for 12 hours. The fat can be poured off the top. If you clip the top corner off the bag, you can pour the fat off pretty well.

--

works like a charm. Be sure to blend that fat up well: I didn't get too worried about the few chunks that didn't get whipped to pork mayonnaise in the blender, but 12 hours later those bits hadn't rendered much at all.

Chris

Daily, I have a Winston CVAP thats running around 205 for retherm purposes. Would be a whole lot easier for me to put "fat shakes" into this.

Do you have any idea what the difference would be compared to 180 deg. heat?

thx

[nathanm]

205 will be fine for fat rendering.

[nathanm]

There is a big article on my cookbook in the issue of Food Arts that just came out.

Also, the publication of the book has been delayed.

[ScottyBoy]

Awe delayed? I'll have to pick up that food arts.

Edited September 17, 2010 by ScottyBoy (log)

[percival]

Scotty, that is some amazing wagyu. I've had SRF wagyu before, in Idaho. Best beef I've ever had. I'm in the Bay Area, too. Where can I find that stuff wholesale?

[ScottyBoy]

If you go to Golden Gate Meat Co. on 7th street, not the ferry building but the main plant. Even though you aren't a restaurant just say that you'd like to fill out a credit app. Tell them you just want to do "Will call, C.O.D." So that means you pick it up and pay cash when you do. I don't they care if you're a restaurant or not because you aren't running on credit. It's literally 60% less than on the SRF website.

Edited September 17, 2010 by ScottyBoy (log)

[ScottyBoy]

The 30 minute editing window throws me off sometimes...

Just to add, sous vide vegetables are just plain awesome. The fact that I can cook, shock and transport to my event with perfect results every time makes my job a lot easier.

[KennethT]

Those look great... I've had mixed results with veggies... asparagus at 180F=yuck, but at 140 or 150 (I forget which) they're fantastic...

What were temps and times for yours?

[ScottyBoy]

I can put both in at 183 for 40 minutes and they're perfect. A little butter salt and sugar on the carrots and a little butter and salt for the artichokes The artichokes are great because prep-wise all I do is peel off the leaves until I reach the yellow and trim the tops. After they come out and are cooled then I trim the stems and clean them up. So much easier for me.

Yeah I can't wait to try white asparagus SV, they would get so tender curious about purple too). Green I always prefer a little bite to them, growing up on steamed over-cooked asparagus is a bad food memory...

Edited September 17, 2010 by ScottyBoy (log)

[KennethT]

Just checked my notes... nice thick asparagus, 150F for about 8 minutes with s&p and a couple pats of butter in the bag, then shocked in ice water and held in refrigerator until service - put back in 140 or 150F water (whatever's convenient if you have other things going) for a couple of minutes to reheat: results in a vibrant green color, crisp but tender texture... I thought they were a little too crisp still, but others loved them... maybe I'd try 10,12 and say 15 min. next time I can get really good asparagus... had a very green, grassy flavor... more than normal steaming etc...

[therippa]

If you go to Golden Gate Meat Co. on 7th street, not the ferry building but the main plant. Even though you aren't a restaurant just say that you'd like to fill out a credit app. Tell them you just want to do "Will call, C.O.D." So that means you pick it up and pay cash when you do. I don't they care if you're a restaurant or not because you aren't running on credit. It's literally 60% less than on the SRF website.

Do you still have to buy things in wholesale quantities or is it more like buying something from Polarica?

[ScottyBoy]

That's what's great, no minimums. Although you can't really help buying 8 lbs of SNF short ribs since it's already packed. But I say $68 for 8 pounds of wagyu is well worth buying and portioning/freezing. Just looking at the prices on the SRF website makes me laugh.

[therippa]

Wow, that's only like a dollar or two more expensive than costco shortibs. Thanks for the tip!

[Edward Dekker]

Does anyone know about a similar vender for wagyu beef in the Boston area (or Southern New Hampshire)?

If you go to Golden Gate Meat Co. on 7th street, not the ferry building but the main plant. Even though you aren't a restaurant just say that you'd like to fill out a credit app. Tell them you just want to do "Will call, C.O.D." So that means you pick it up and pay cash when you do. I don't they care if you're a restaurant or not because you aren't running on credit. It's literally 60% less than on the SRF website.

[IndyRob]

Does anyone know about a similar vender for wagyu beef in the Boston area (or Southern New Hampshire)?

Or anywhere else an eGulleteer might reside?

[jackal10]

Anyone have a pork normande SV recipe or experience (pork with apples, cider, cream)?

My instinct is to cook the cubed shoulder pork somthing like 12 hours at 60C in the hard cider, then finish with cream, apples, vegetable garnish etc

Its not confit - it needs to be meltingly tender but retain some structure

[percival]

Quick Q: anyone ever SV banana leaf for an extended period of time? Wondering if it will go bitter like aromatics.