Jump to content
  • Welcome to the eG Forums, a service of the eGullet Society for Culinary Arts & Letters. The Society is a 501(c)3 not-for-profit organization dedicated to the advancement of the culinary arts. These advertising-free forums are provided free of charge through donations from Society members. Anyone may read the forums, but to post you must create a free account.

Guy MovingOn

Sous Vide: Recipes, Techniques & Equipment (Part 7)

Recommended Posts

If he can find someone to go diving with, I'll have three of them tomorrow night. I was going to have him cook up one the old fashioned way, and I was going to sv the other two (one with butter in the bag). I still think I'm going to let it go for 24 hours to break down the collagen.

Does anyone remember the reason why we only sv shellfish for 40 minutes or so?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

+1 for Under Pressure. I've done recipes with liquid in the bag, and I don't have a chamber packer (I wish). I don't have a FoodSaver, either. I just use ziploc bags; if there's liquid in the bag, it conveniently fills most/all of what would be air pockets without a liquid. Rendered or melted fat is the best for that; I've gotten ziploc bags that looked a hell of a lot like they were vacuum-sealed when doing duck confit this way.

Everything I've tried from Under Pressure ("pastrami" duck breast (60 C, 20 min), duck legs and tongues confit (85 C, 8 hours), vanilla ice cream (85 C down to 82 C over 20 min)) came out exactly perfectly as specified. I don't have an immersion circulator, either; I have an Auber PID and an industrial food warmer. I've also gotten good results with the Auber plugged into an electric griddle with a pot of water on top.

Compression is a pretty small portion of the book. The problem is that the vegetable section is first, and most fruits and vegetables are compressed to flash-marinate them, so when you leaf through the book at the bookstore, you say WTF, what the hell does that do, and run screaming. I did this, and regret it.

Under Pressure is a lot closer to The French Laundry Cookbook Part 2 than to a study of specifically sous vide. A fair amount of the stuff in it is sous vide, but that's just because that's what they do there, which in turn is just because it tastes better and is more consistent for a fair amount of stuff. There's also a huge amount of traditional stuff, too: all the old standby veal stock, "quick" sauces, etc are still there, and you'll find that you spend more of your time and attention in each recipe on those things (since sous vide by nature doesn't require tending the pot).

The only problem with it is the previously mentioned danger zone crap, so no recipes with cooking temperatures below 60 C, even though the introduction mentions medium-rare short ribs, which are fundamentally less than 60 C for 25-50 hours. There is some medium-rare stuff in the book, but it's tender cuts cooked at 60 C for short enough of a time that most of it doesn't get above 55 C.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If he can find someone to go diving with, I'll have three of them tomorrow night. I was going to have him cook up one the old fashioned way, and I was going to sv the other two (one with butter in the bag). I still think I'm going to let it go for 24 hours to break down the collagen.

Does anyone remember the reason why we only sv shellfish for 40 minutes or so?

Most shellfish is pretty tender, and if cooked too long turns mushy... octopus can be cooked long time, and I'd imagine that abalone would be good that way too, especially if it has lots of collagen in the muscle.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Can finally get ahold of serious meat wholesale. Some Snake River Farms Kobe short ribs. See you in 48 hours meat!

Kobe.jpg?t=1284589462


Sleep, bike, cook, feed, repeat...

Chef Facebook HQ Menlo Park, CA

My eGullet Foodblog

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Can finally get ahold of serious meat wholesale. Some Snake River Farms Kobe short ribs. See you in 48 hours meat!

Kobe.jpg?t=1284589462

Christ those look spectacular...I see you live in Oakland, can I drive over the bridge and have some of those Friday? :wink:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Holy crap. That's some serious food porn. It looks like butter with some meat in it.

Anyway, regarding Keller's book, the thing I found after I got it is that he's maddeningly specific about ingredients. If you're not willing or able to get your radishes from "Jermaine, under the 146th street bridge, between the hours of 2:00PM and 4:00PM on Wednesday or Thursday" then all bets are off. Yes, that's an exaggeration. But not far off.

I learned a couple of valuable facts (primarily that you can overcook sous vide) and some interesting techniques, but won't be cooking through it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes, but if you *do* go there between 2 and 4 pm, the results are spectacular.

I did drive to Sonoma County Poultry and personally talk to his duck man Jim Reichardt to pick up a duck, and got regaled with accounts of how (paraphrased) he asked Corey Lee whether you really have to use all that salt to cure the duck legs for duck confit, and they said no, not really, it's jus to fill the container and make sure all the surfaces have salt touching them. And the duck was noticeably better than the duck I tried from other places.

So the specificity of ingredients isn't all bad. And the stuff worked just fine with the other ducks. It was still spectacular, but didn't have that extra oomph from the super-duper duck.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I just wanted to report that this method of rendering lard --

f you really want to render the fat well you must grind or homogenize the fat with water first. Put the fat to render in a blender with water (nearly to cover). Blend it until it is very fine and smooth.

...

4. Seal the fat-shake mix in a sous vide bag and cook in a water bath or other method at 180F/82C for 12 hours. The fat can be poured off the top. If you clip the top corner off the bag, you can pour the fat off pretty well.

--

works like a charm. Be sure to blend that fat up well: I didn't get too worried about the few chunks that didn't get whipped to pork mayonnaise in the blender, but 12 hours later those bits hadn't rendered much at all.

Chris

Daily, I have a Winston CVAP thats running around 205 for retherm purposes. Would be a whole lot easier for me to put "fat shakes" into this.

Do you have any idea what the difference would be compared to 180 deg. heat?

thx

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There is a big article on my cookbook in the issue of Food Arts that just came out.

Also, the publication of the book has been delayed.


Nathan

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Scotty, that is some amazing wagyu. I've had SRF wagyu before, in Idaho. Best beef I've ever had. I'm in the Bay Area, too. Where can I find that stuff wholesale?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you go to Golden Gate Meat Co. on 7th street, not the ferry building but the main plant. Even though you aren't a restaurant just say that you'd like to fill out a credit app. Tell them you just want to do "Will call, C.O.D." So that means you pick it up and pay cash when you do. I don't they care if you're a restaurant or not because you aren't running on credit. It's literally 60% less than on the SRF website.


Edited by ScottyBoy (log)

Sleep, bike, cook, feed, repeat...

Chef Facebook HQ Menlo Park, CA

My eGullet Foodblog

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The 30 minute editing window throws me off sometimes...

Just to add, sous vide vegetables are just plain awesome. The fact that I can cook, shock and transport to my event with perfect results every time makes my job a lot easier.

SousvideVeg.jpg?t=1284696761


Sleep, bike, cook, feed, repeat...

Chef Facebook HQ Menlo Park, CA

My eGullet Foodblog

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Those look great... I've had mixed results with veggies... asparagus at 180F=yuck, but at 140 or 150 (I forget which) they're fantastic...

What were temps and times for yours?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I can put both in at 183 for 40 minutes and they're perfect. A little butter salt and sugar on the carrots and a little butter and salt for the artichokes The artichokes are great because prep-wise all I do is peel off the leaves until I reach the yellow and trim the tops. After they come out and are cooled then I trim the stems and clean them up. So much easier for me.

Yeah I can't wait to try white asparagus SV, they would get so tender curious about purple too). Green I always prefer a little bite to them, growing up on steamed over-cooked asparagus is a bad food memory...


Edited by ScottyBoy (log)

Sleep, bike, cook, feed, repeat...

Chef Facebook HQ Menlo Park, CA

My eGullet Foodblog

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just checked my notes... nice thick asparagus, 150F for about 8 minutes with s&p and a couple pats of butter in the bag, then shocked in ice water and held in refrigerator until service - put back in 140 or 150F water (whatever's convenient if you have other things going) for a couple of minutes to reheat: results in a vibrant green color, crisp but tender texture... I thought they were a little too crisp still, but others loved them... maybe I'd try 10,12 and say 15 min. next time I can get really good asparagus... had a very green, grassy flavor... more than normal steaming etc...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you go to Golden Gate Meat Co. on 7th street, not the ferry building but the main plant. Even though you aren't a restaurant just say that you'd like to fill out a credit app. Tell them you just want to do "Will call, C.O.D." So that means you pick it up and pay cash when you do. I don't they care if you're a restaurant or not because you aren't running on credit. It's literally 60% less than on the SRF website.

Do you still have to buy things in wholesale quantities or is it more like buying something from Polarica?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That's what's great, no minimums. Although you can't really help buying 8 lbs of SNF short ribs since it's already packed. But I say $68 for 8 pounds of wagyu is well worth buying and portioning/freezing. Just looking at the prices on the SRF website makes me laugh.


Sleep, bike, cook, feed, repeat...

Chef Facebook HQ Menlo Park, CA

My eGullet Foodblog

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wow, that's only like a dollar or two more expensive than costco shortibs. Thanks for the tip!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Does anyone know about a similar vender for wagyu beef in the Boston area (or Southern New Hampshire)?

If you go to Golden Gate Meat Co. on 7th street, not the ferry building but the main plant. Even though you aren't a restaurant just say that you'd like to fill out a credit app. Tell them you just want to do "Will call, C.O.D." So that means you pick it up and pay cash when you do. I don't they care if you're a restaurant or not because you aren't running on credit. It's literally 60% less than on the SRF website.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Does anyone know about a similar vender for wagyu beef in the Boston area (or Southern New Hampshire)?

Or anywhere else an eGulleteer might reside?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Anyone have a pork normande SV recipe or experience (pork with apples, cider, cream)?

My instinct is to cook the cubed shoulder pork somthing like 12 hours at 60C in the hard cider, then finish with cream, apples, vegetable garnish etc

Its not confit - it needs to be meltingly tender but retain some structure

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Quick Q: anyone ever SV banana leaf for an extended period of time? Wondering if it will go bitter like aromatics.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.

  • Similar Content

    • By Porthos
      I picked up enough boneless short ribs to make 3 meals for my Sweetie and me. One meal will be pan-braised tonight. One has been vacuum-sealed and is in the freezer. My question is about seasoning, sealing, freezing, then defrosting and cooking at a later date. I'd like to season and seal the 3rd meal's worth. Can I use a dry rub on the meat, then seal, freeze, and cook at a later date? Does anyone else do this?
    • By newchef
      So I've now found myself at the water's edge of Modernist Cuisine.  Specifically, using sodium citrate for emulsifying all kinds of cheeses.  What I'm after is making an emulsified Parmesan sauce as well as another emulsified cheese sauce (most likely using Cheddar or Colby) that I can freeze and use later.  I'm a single guy and am no stranger of tweaking recipes for freezing but I haven't done it for modernist stuff yet.  I'd love to make a big batch of cheese sauce, freeze it into ice cubes for up to 3 months or so, and then take a few cubes out to thaw on a weeknight and toss with pasta, drizzle over veggies, etc.
       
      I looked at the modernist cuisine FAQ and saw this specific post about the cheese sauce that is "probably" freeze-able because it uses something called carageenan.  Has anyone been able to freeze sauce and keep it frozen for, say, a few months?  And not have to use carageenan?
       
      Thanks!
    • By WackGet
      Recently I picked up a few different types of emulsifiers in bulk powder form when I saw them in passing at a catering wholesaler.
       
      Having never used powdered emulsifiers before in cooking or baking, I figured I'd find pretty comprehensive instructions for their use on the web - but I can't.
       
      I'm not a stranger to food science but nor am I a chemist. I understand that emulsifiers are at least sometimes prepared by pre-mixing them into a (heated?) liquid or fat and then using the resulting solution in the actual recipe, which may explain why a lot of commercial emulsifier mixtures are packages as tubes of gel or paste. I've also checked several industry-level textbooks about emulsifiers and while they are fantastic for in-depth explanations of the chemistry behind each emulsifier, they do not (as you might imagine) provide guidance on how a lowly baker or cook would actually use a powdered form.
       
      So does anyone know how to prepare and use a dry powdered form of any of the following in a real recipe?
       
      Specifically I am most interested in enhancing baked goods and adding stability to sauces, but would also like to know how to use them for other processes such as sausage-making too.
      E471 Mono- and diglycerides of fatty acids E481 Sodium stearoyl lactylate E482 Calcium stearoyl lactylate E472e DATEM (diacetyl tartaric acid ester of mono- and diglycerides)
        Thanks.
    • By mjbarnard
      I cooked two turkey breasts sous vide. This year had access to the Meater+ thermometer probe which I managed to vacuum seal in the bag without difficulty (it is small). Since it works wirelessly I was able to monitor and it records the internal temperatures at the thickest part of the breast.
      I thought the results were interesting. I cooked at 60C for 8 hours. I have always used https://www.chefsteps.com/activities/a-better-way-to-turkey-cook-that-bird-sous-vide-for-the-best-feast-ever which gives long cooking times at lower temperature. I have found that as according to this page https://www.seriouseats.com/recipes/2014/11/sous-vide-turkey-breast-crispy-skin-recipe-thanksgiving.html that 55C gives turkey which is just a little too pink for most tastes. Over the last few years have increased the temperature up to 59/60 and I find it perfect - very moist and tender, but pale not pink.
      See attached images. I changed my mind a couple of times and started at 58 then 60 then 59 again, so ignore the slight variations. The thing I found interesting was that the thickest part (of a large breast) reached 55C in around 1 hour 40 mins and target of 59 in 2 hours 30 mins. Now I appreciate that sous vide is a combination of temperature and time or duration, but the data make me think that around 4 hours would be sufficient, as per the seriouseats table. I have previously used the chefsteps 55-58 for their much longer advised times, up to 12 hours and the meat is still quite pink at the end, so I dont believe 55 for 12 hours would effectively be the same.
      From now on I will watching the internal temperatures with interest. This has always been the (relative) unkown for sous vide amateurs. 


    • By chefg
      I have to say designing the Alinea kitchen has been one of the most exciting experiences thus far in the opening of this restaurant. I have been fortunate to have been “raised” in some of the best kitchens in the country. When I arrived at the French Laundry in August 1996 the “new kitchen” had just been completed. Often times you would hear the man talk about the good old days of cooking on a residential range with only one refrigerator and warped out sauté pans with wiggly handles. When I started about 50% of the custom stainless steel was in place. The walls smooth with tile and carpet on the floors. I recall the feeling of anxiety when working for fear that I would dirty up the kitchen, not a common concern for most cooks in commercial kitchens.
      The French Laundry kitchen didn’t stop, it continued to evolve over the four years I was there. I vividly remember the addition of the custom fish/canapé stainless unit. Allowing the poissonier to keep his mise en place in beautiful 1/9 pan rails instead of the ice cube filled fish lugs. Each advancement in technology and ergonomics made the kitchen a more efficient and exacting machine.
      When I returned to the Laundry this past July for the 10th anniversary I was shocked that it had metomorphisized once again. The butcher room was now a sea of custom stainless steel low boys, the pot sink area was expanded, the walk-in moved, and an office added to the corner of the kitchen. The kitchen as I left it in June of 2001 was beautiful and extremely functional, of course it is even more so now. It is the relentless pursuit of detail and concise thought that allows the French Laundry kitchen to be one of the best for cooks to execute their craft…..16 hours a day.
      This was good motivation.
      When it came time to design my kitchen I drew on experiences at Trio, TFL and other kitchens I was familiar with to define the positives and negatives of those designs. We were faced with a 21x 44' rectangle. This space would not allow for my original kitchen design idea of four islands postioned throughout the kitchen, but ultimately gave way for the current design which I think is actually better than the original. But most the important aspect in shaping the final design was the cuisine. Due to the nature of food that we produce a typical layout with common equipment standards and dimensions do not work. Here is where the team drew on our experiences from Trio. By looking at the techniques we utilized we came to several conclusions.
      1. A conventional range was not our main heat source. We do need the flat tops and some open burners for applications such as braising and limited stock work. But our overall use of this piece of equipment is somewhat low. Given that we wanted four open burners and two flat tops with two ovens I began to source out a reliable unit. We settled on the Molteni G230.

      2. Upon analyzing our other heat source needs we decided to place a large focus on induction. By utilizing portable induction burners we are allowed the flexibility to give as much power as needed to a specific station in the kitchen. Obviously induction’s radiant heat is very low, and this allows us to keep the temperature in the kitchen reasonable, yet the power is quite high. 31,000 BTU's of highly controlable heat. But the main reason for choosing this flexible source of heat is the fact that each chef typically employed at least four different cooking applications on a given night. This huge flux in technique and the realization that the menu would change entirely in 8 weeks time meant that we had to design a kitchen that could evolve on a nightly basis. And last, we are very specific with temperatures; induction makes it easier for us to hold a liquid at a predetermined temperature for long periods of time without fluctuation. They operate between 85 and 500 degrees farenheit. We did a great deal of research on the different producers of induction and favored Cooktek. The fact that they are the only U.S manufacturer of commercial induction cooking equipment and located in Chicago made the decision easier. Their innovative approach to induction may prove to be even more exciting as we are already talking about new product development in the future.

      3. a. The complexity of the presentations and a la minute plate-ups of the food require a great deal of surface area devoted to plating. This was one of the most critical factors in determining the basic shape of the kitchen. The size of some of today's popular plates, the amount detail in each composition, coupled with the fact that producing tasting menus vs. ala carte means sometimes large waves of same dish pick ups made it necessary for us to have over 44' of linear plating surface.
      b. Virtually nothing goes vertical above the 36” counter top in the space. All food, plates, equipment, and dry good storage are contained by under counter units. There are a few exceptions such as the infrared salamanders, the three-door refrigerator, and the hood. This allows all the cooks a clear line of communication between each other and the front staff. It allows me an easy sight line to survey the entire kitchen’s progress with a quick glance.
      Given these two points it seemed obvious that we needed to combine the two and create custom pieces that would fulfill both needs. Large spans of plating surfaces with all food and equipment storage below. As you can see we ended up with two 22’ long units. Each function as a pass and under counter storage.
      The building is 21’ wide wall to wall. This allowed us just enough space to create two lines on each exterior wall with their passes forming a 60” corridor for the pick up of plates and finishing of dishes.
      4. We decided to add a station to the kitchen. At Trio we had five including:
      a. pastry
      b. cold garde manger
      c. hot garde manger
      d. fish
      e. meat
      Now that we had more space, and the ability to give each station multiple heat
      sources regardless of their location in the kitchen, we could spread the workload even further. We also realized it doesn’t make much sense to identify each station by classic French Bragade terms. A saucier did not solely cook meat with classic techniques and prepare various traditional stocks and sauces…in fact quite the opposite. This holds true with most of the stations, with the exception of pastry, but even they will have very unconventional techniques, menu placement and involvement in the kitchen systems. We will add a station that will be responsible for a large majority of the one-bite courses both sweet and savory.
      5.Given the size constraints of the building we realized a walk-in would not be possible in the kitchen. If we were to have one it would be in the basement. Having experienced this at Trio we decided to design the kitchen without a walk-in, making up for the space in various lowboy locations and a three-door reach-in. I experienced the walk-in less environment when I worked at Charlie Trotter’s. It is certainly different, but as with most things if done properly it provides a very efficient environment. It works best in situations where fresh products are brought in daily for that days use. And prevents ordering in large quantities. It also provides us with very specific units to house different items. We will utilize the 3-door refrigerator to store the majority of the vegetables and herbs along with some staple mise en place, and items that cannot be made in very small quantities like stocks. Raw meat will have it’s own lowboys as well as fish, dairy, and all frozen products.
      6. At Trio we found ourselves using the salamander a great deal. It is very useful for melting sugar, bringing on transparent qualities in things like fat and cheese, cooking items intensely on only one side, and it is a highly controllable non-direct heat source. Due to the air gap between the foodstuff and the heat elements the cook can control the degree of heat applied to the dish based on the technique he is using. It becomes a very versatile tool in the modern kitchen, so much so that we will install three Sodir infrared salamanders.

      Again, this is to insure that all the cooks have access to all of the techniques in the kitchen. As I said before it is important for our cooks to be able to sauté, simmer, poach, fry, grill, salamander, and freeze at the same time and sometimes for the same dish.
      We have a few unusual pieces of equipment in the kitchen; the most is probably a centrifuge. A few months ago Nick and I were driving home from a design meeting and ended up talking about signature dishes and menu repetition. Of course the black truffle explosion came up and he asked if I would have it on the menu at Alinea. I replied a firm no, but shortly thereafter said I would enjoy updating it. We threw around some tongue and cheek ideas like White Truffle Implosion, and Truffle Explosion 2005….I said it was a goal of mine to make a frozen ball with a liquid center….but then dismissed it as nearly impossible. Within a few minutes he said …”I got it…we need a centrifuge” His explanation was simple, place the desired liquid in a spherical mold and place on the centrifuge…place the whole thing in the freezer. Within days he had one in the test kitchen. I guess this is better suited for the kitchen lab topic that we will be starting in a few weeks…
      We are working on a upload of the kitchen blueprints. When those post I plan on going into more detail about certian aspects of the design. Doing so now would be pointless as the viewer does not have a reference point.
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...