Marilyn Hagerty Goes Viral

[PrivateTim]

Oy. We had a little family owned italian place that had been open longer than the 30 years I've been in town. When we moved close to it, we tried and tried to like it. Three separate visits, with friends, to try many things on the menu, and the best it ever got was mediocre. Most of the stuff was worse than that - little flavor, overcooked textures, very salty in a plain-white-salt way. Olive Garden walks all over them. (As do many other independant italian restaurants in town).

I find it pretty hard to believe that in a town the size of San Diego that a bad restaurant would stay open longer than 30 years or that there is any Italian restaurant in San Diego that is not better than Olive Garden's, high fat, high salt formula that keeps packing them in.

I found the story about Marilyn Hagerty charming on several levels. It was charming that an 85 year old was blogging. It was charming that she discovered Olive Garden at 85 and had good things to say about it. I don't invalidate her opinions just because I think Olive Garden is terrible, I evaluate her opinion based on her experience. In her life experience she found many things to like about Olive Garden. With my life experience, I have a different opinion. It doesn't make me wrong or her wrong, it just means the person reading our varying opinions has to evaluate for themselves whether or not they want to eat at the Olive Garden.

As to Grand Forks, it has many fine places to eat, The Toasted Frog, Sanders 1907, The Blue Moose B & G and Little Bangkok, but maybe are not the kind of places Marilyn or family frequent for any number of reasons.

[gfweb]

I find it pretty hard to believe that in a town the size of San Diego that a bad restaurant would stay open longer than 30 years

Seems odd, but I've known crappy restaurants to last decades on reputation and a loyal following of old ladies eg Old Original Bookbinders in Philly sucked for as long as I can remember.

[PrivateTim]

I find it pretty hard to believe that in a town the size of San Diego that a bad restaurant would stay open longer than 30 years

Seems odd, but I've known crappy restaurants to last decades on reputation and a loyal following of old ladies eg Old Original Bookbinders in Philly sucked for as long as I can remember.

Eh Bookbinders wasn't great when it closed, but it did have a loyal following and a steady stream of tourists. I probably ate there the first time in the mid 60's and continued to stop in on occasion when I was in Philadelphia on business through the early 2000's. It was better than "sucky" even if it wasn't great.

[annabelle]

It sucked.

There are plenty of sucky Italian restaurants in San Diego that are more than 30+ years old, have waterfront views and crappy food. They were there when I lived there in the 80's.

[PrivateTim]

It sucked.

There are plenty of sucky Italian restaurants in San Diego that are more than 30+ years old, have waterfront views and crappy food. They were there when I lived there in the 80's.

Really? Name three "sucky Italian restaurants in San Diego that are more than 30+ years old, have waterfront views and crappy food", since there are plenty. If that is a too much of a challenge, name one.

[annabelle]

Since I haven't lived there since 1989, all I have is Tarantino's. I don't know if they are still there or not. Thnere were a couple of others further into town, but on the water by the Star of India.

San Diego was not a destination foodie town then. All of the "good" restaurants were in La Jolla and Del Mar and I can't remember their names, either. I know they were very expensive, $200 and up for a couple, and that was 25 years ago.

[gfweb]

How bad does a place have to be to rate a sucky judgement? I'd say that depends on how much it costs and how much it misses the mark.

IHOP isn't much but they do what they set out to do. A $45 entree place that has gloppy sauce and overdone lobster sucks even though if IHOP served it for ten bucks you'd be happy.

We ate recently at a Delaware stalwart, Vincente's. Been around for ages. Vincente has a schtick where he designs your meal based on what you say you like. Charming old guy. But the food is badly seasoned and boring and overcooked. It doesn't come out as he described. It sucks cause it missed the mark he set.

[Jaymes]

I found the story about Marilyn Hagerty charming on several levels. It was charming that an 85 year old was blogging. It was charming that she discovered Olive Garden at 85 and had good things to say about it. I don't invalidate her opinions just because I think Olive Garden is terrible, I evaluate her opinion based on her experience. In her life experience she found many things to like about Olive Garden. With my life experience, I have a different opinion. It doesn't make me wrong or her wrong, it just means the person reading our varying opinions has to evaluate for themselves whether or not they want to eat at the Olive Garden.

As to Grand Forks, it has many fine places to eat, The Toasted Frog, Sanders 1907, The Blue Moose B & G and Little Bangkok, but maybe are not the kind of places Marilyn or family frequent for any number of reasons.

I don't know if you have ever lived in a small town (and, by small town, I don't mean a suburb of a major city, but a small town a couple-hundred miles from any sort of major population center), but I have.

And perhaps you have as well, and perhaps my experience just differs from yours, but I find your comments not only incredibly condescending, but lacking any insight whatsoever into what isolated small-town living is like. Let alone "Marilyn or family."

I would absolutely, definitely, bet the very last dollar I have that "The Toasted Frog, Sanders 1907, The Blue Moose B & G and Little Bangkok" are not only "the kind of places Marilyn or family frequent for any number of reasons," but that they are exactly the kind of places that Marilyn and family have frequented, "for many reasons," time and time again. And again. And again.

And that Marilyn has written about in her column time and time again. And again. And again.

And further that absolutely every single soul that lives in Grand Forks and possesses the wherewithal physically and financially to go there also has frequented time and time again. And again. And again.

And has read about in Marilyn's column time and time again. And again. And again.

I'm sorry you find Olive Garden so loathsome. But for the residents of Grand Forks, I feel pretty sure that any new restaurant whatsoever is of interest enough to be worthy of a writeup in Marilyn's column. And at least a few sample tries. And the benefit of the doubt. And a change of pace. And several hopeful perusals of the menu in search of something, if not Four Star Fabulous, pleasing.

I don't know how long Marilyn has been writing those reviews, and I don't know if she's required to write a new one every week, or every other week, or what, but I think it's easily possible that, over the years, she has written more columns about restaurants in Grand Forks ND than there are restaurants in Grand Forks ND.

So, you find it "charming that she discovered Olive Garden at 85"? Really? When she specifically mentions having visited an "older one in Fargo" several years back? Or perhaps her son took her to one elsewhere, maybe even New York City, since he works for the Wall Street Journal.

And you find it "charming," do you, that some old Midwestern woman, who seems capable of earning a living with her writing, actually manages to do that with a computer, and online, perhaps having given up her trusty Underwood with the coming of the new millennium?

Interesting.

Because that's exactly what I find you.

Charming.

.

Edited March 14, 2012 by Jaymes (log)

[SJMitch]

The WSJ article about her by her son is very cool. There's a fun photo of her on the back of a motorcycle with whom? The owner of Sanders 1907.

[rotuts]

thanks for the WSJ ref. I bet her book is an interesting read.

[blue_dolphin]

The WSJ article about her by her son is very cool. There's a fun photo of her on the back of a motorcycle with whom? The owner of Sanders 1907.

Yes, great piece:

My mom has her own style of reviewing restaurants: She doesn't like to say anything bad about the food. Her regular readers read between the lines. If she writes more about the décor than the food, you might want to eat somewhere else.

Her Olive Garden review was actually mixed. She said the "chicken Alfredo ($10.95) was warm and comforting on a cold day." She also noted that the restaurant is "fashioned in Tuscan farmhouse style with a welcoming entryway."

"As I ate," Mom wrote, "I noticed the vases and planters with permanent flower displays on the ledges. There are several dining areas with arched doorways. And there is a fireplace that adds warmth to the décor."

Love it!

[prasantrin]

Jaymes, you are definitely my sistah from another mistah. My thoughts almost to a T.

I think in order to interpret her review, one must understand her sense of humour and her writing, in general. Most of the people who are writing about her Olive Garden review, know little about her. As her son wrote, if she writes mostly of decor, she probably doesn't like the food. And if you read her other reviews, they're very straight-forward. No superfluous descriptions or praise, just a clear description of the place and the food. As her editor writes about the review,

This one wasn’t different from the others. Marilyn picked out a restaurant, went there and described what she encountered. It wasn’t a critique of the food so much as a notice to readers of what they can expect when they go there.

In a small city like Grand Forks, I imagine the reviewer must be very careful about what is written, as an overly negative review could easily destroy a business in a place like that. When I read her reviews, I get the impression that she's being very careful about what she writes.

People are all too eager to write Marilyn Hagerty off as "charming" (read: "unsophisticated" "country bumpkin" etc.), but there's so much more to her than is assumed. Some fact about her:

She is very well traveled. ("I have been flitting around this fall. Bismarck. Denver. Atlanta. Rome. Venice," she wrote in a past column.) She has been a guest at the White House twice. Also, her very accomplished daughter Carol—a lawyer who practiced in Hong Kong and Tokyo, and who was a hunter, and who had three kids—died just this last December of ALS, I was so sorry to see, and she was only 56. Her other children are Gail Hagerty, who is a judge, and James R. "Bob" Hagerty, also a newspaperman: he has worked for the Wall Street Journal and the International Herald Tribune in Hong Kong, London, Brussels, Paris, Atlanta and New York, serving as "managing editor of The Asian Wall Street Journal (1994-98) and London bureau chief of The WSJ (2000-03)."

But if you think of her as "charming", it's much easier to write her off, I suppose.

And to those who think otherwise, she is not a blogger. Judging by her comments, she has little use for blogging or bloggers.

“Sounds like dirty words,’’ she said about blogging. “Sounds like you’re talking bad. We all have different ideas of what we want to do with our time, don’t we? I’d rather be playing bridge or watching a basketball game than doing that.’’

(incidentally, I've used her restaurant columns in the past when looking for restaurants in the GF area. I consider her reviews to be a source of information more so than reviews.)

[Jaymes]

Jaymes, you are definitely my sistah from another mistah. My thoughts almost to a T.

I think in order to interpret her review, one must understand her sense of humour and her writing, in general. Most of the people who are writing about her Olive Garden review, know little about her. As her son wrote, if she writes mostly of decor, she probably doesn't like the food. And if you read her other reviews, they're very straight-forward. No superfluous descriptions or praise, just a clear description of the place and the food. As her editor writes about the review,

This one wasn’t different from the others. Marilyn picked out a restaurant, went there and described what she encountered. It wasn’t a critique of the food so much as a notice to readers of what they can expect when they go there.

In a small city like Grand Forks, I imagine the reviewer must be very careful about what is written, as an overly negative review could easily destroy a business in a place like that. When I read her reviews, I get the impression that she's being very careful about what she writes.

People are all too eager to write Marilyn Hagerty off as "charming" (read: "unsophisticated" "country bumpkin" etc.), but there's so much more to her than is assumed. Some fact about her:

She is very well traveled. ("I have been flitting around this fall. Bismarck. Denver. Atlanta. Rome. Venice," she wrote in a past column.) She has been a guest at the White House twice. Also, her very accomplished daughter Carol—a lawyer who practiced in Hong Kong and Tokyo, and who was a hunter, and who had three kids—died just this last December of ALS, I was so sorry to see, and she was only 56. Her other children are Gail Hagerty, who is a judge, and James R. "Bob" Hagerty, also a newspaperman: he has worked for the Wall Street Journal and the International Herald Tribune in Hong Kong, London, Brussels, Paris, Atlanta and New York, serving as "managing editor of The Asian Wall Street Journal (1994-98) and London bureau chief of The WSJ (2000-03)."

But if you think of her as "charming", it's much easier to write her off, I suppose.

And to those who think otherwise, she is not a blogger. Judging by her comments, she has little use for blogging or bloggers.

“Sounds like dirty words,’’ she said about blogging. “Sounds like you’re talking bad. We all have different ideas of what we want to do with our time, don’t we? I’d rather be playing bridge or watching a basketball game than doing that.’’

(incidentally, I've used her restaurant columns in the past when looking for restaurants in the GF area. I consider her reviews to be a source of information more so than reviews.)

Some of this I knew about Marilyn (her distinguished children); some I did not (daughter having just died). That's one reason I found the line about the "kinds of places that Marilyn AND FAMILY don't frequent" particularly galling.

As for her "blogging." According to that article by her son in the WSJ wherein he says she doesn't "blog," I still feel pretty sure that she's writing her articles on her computer and then zapping them over to the newspaper via email (in an rtf file if she doesn't have a mac), which is what I did during the years I wrote for a small hometown newspaper (including, I guess I'll add, restaurant reviews that required the same sort of delicate tap-dancing for which Marilyn is now garnering such dismissive disrespect).

So even though she might not be "blogging," she is playing online scrabble with her son and I'm sure she's been familiar with computers and the internet long enough to feel like she's progressed well past the "isn't that charming" stage.

Edited March 15, 2012 by Jaymes (log)

[annabelle]

Brava, Jaymes! I think it is awfully easy to dismiss Marilyn as some old granny from East Egypt, ND who, as you said, is pecking out her reviews on an old manual typewriter. With carbon paper between the sheets. It's part and parcel of the whole dismissive attitude to a good three-quarters of the country that doesn't live in major metropolitan areas that are adjacent to the sea and above the Mason-Dixon line.

I bet she's one hell of a bridge partner, too.

[mskerr]

It's part and parcel of the whole dismissive attitude to a good three-quarters of the country that doesn't live in major metropolitan areas that are adjacent to the sea and above the Mason-Dixon line.

Too right!

[Toliver]

"Anthony Bourdain to Publish Marilyn Hagerty's Writing"

From the article:

... Bourdain confirmed that he will in fact publish Hagerty's writing. Bourdain stated, "The reviews I read were refreshing and heartfelt. I think she made us all on the coasts look small and bad, and I admire her for that. And I think there's a book there. I know there's a book there. And I'm honored to be publishing her."

Good for Marilyn and Tony.

[Jaymes]

It's part and parcel of the whole dismissive attitude to a good three-quarters of the country that doesn't live in major metropolitan areas that are adjacent to the sea and above the Mason-Dixon line.

Too right!

I hate to say it but I honestly believe that the rebuttal to whomever it was that denigrated the "type of restaurant that Marilyn and family patronize" (or words to that effect) was taken more seriously by the place of her son's residence (New York City) than his profession (writer for the Wall Street Journal).

I think that regional dismissive prejudice is so pervasive and strong that, sadly, it would have carried more weight to say that "He lives in New York City where he is a day laborer" than "He lives in Chicago where he writes for the Times."

It also stuns me that, in this day of instant information, when it would have been so easy to discover the credentials of "Marilyn and family" (credentials that include not only a son that writes for the WSJ, but a daughter who was a practicing attorney in Hong Kong and probably fluent in Cantonese, among other lofty and sophisticated and intellectual accomplishments) before sneering and jeering at them, one wouldn't take five minutes to do enough research to know exactly at whom one is sneering and jeering.

[Toasted]

Wow, lady goes to Olive Garden, actually likes the food, and everybody looses their minds! I also enjoy some of the food at OG. We have many local places around us, some are good-some are great, most are very inconsistent. If the real chef is there- awesome! If not, I just wasted fifty bucks on crappy food and a "who gives a shit response". At least at OG you can talk to a manager, fix the problem, and still have a nice meal.

[Mjx]

It's part and parcel of the whole dismissive attitude to a good three-quarters of the country that doesn't live in major metropolitan areas that are adjacent to the sea and above the Mason-Dixon line.

Too right!

. . . .

I think that regional dismissive prejudice is so pervasive and strong that, sadly, it would have carried more weight to say that "He lives in New York City where he is a day laborer" than "He lives in Chicago where he writes for the Times."

It also stuns me that, in this day of instant information, when it would have been so easy to discover the credentials of "Marilyn and family" (credentials that include not only a son that writes for the WSJ, but a daughter who was a practicing attorney in Hong Kong and probably fluent in Cantonese, among other lofty and sophisticated and intellectual accomplishments) before sneering and jeering at them, one wouldn't take five minutes to do enough research to know exactly at whom one is sneering and jeering.

Oh, please. Enough already the 'us and them' regional nonsense. No one but a hick (by which I mean a state of mind, undefined by place of origin or socioeconomic status) living in a major urban area on one of the two coasts dismisses Chicago as insignificant, and who cares about these people?

Regional prejudice and contemptuous dismissiveness of other groups' food preferences are by no means confined to major urban areas. I know heaps of people who reflexively smirk at and mock restaurants that fall into the 'fine dining' category associated with big cities, but attempt to justify it by saying they're 'just folks', they're 'real'. Please. Inverted snobbery is at least as nauseating as straight-up snobbery.

Ms. Hagery seems to be an intelligent woman with a keen sense of irony; she must be laughing her head off at the entire brouhaha surrounding her piece on the OG.

[Jaymes]

It's part and parcel of the whole dismissive attitude to a good three-quarters of the country that doesn't live in major metropolitan areas that are adjacent to the sea and above the Mason-Dixon line.

Too right!

. . . .

I think that regional dismissive prejudice is so pervasive and strong that, sadly, it would have carried more weight to say that "He lives in New York City where he is a day laborer" than "He lives in Chicago where he writes for the Times."

It also stuns me that, in this day of instant information, when it would have been so easy to discover the credentials of "Marilyn and family" (credentials that include not only a son that writes for the WSJ, but a daughter who was a practicing attorney in Hong Kong and probably fluent in Cantonese, among other lofty and sophisticated and intellectual accomplishments) before sneering and jeering at them, one wouldn't take five minutes to do enough research to know exactly at whom one is sneering and jeering.

Oh, please. Enough already the 'us and them' regional nonsense. No one but a hick (by which I mean a state of mind, undefined by place of origin or socioeconomic status) living in a major urban area on one of the two coasts dismisses Chicago as insignificant, and who cares about these people?

First - I was exaggerating to make a point. I'm sorry; I suppose I should have added a disclaimer, but I thought it was obvious.

And Second - I have actually lived in both New York City and the LA area and my son lives in the SF Bay area where I visit often and I have definitely heard "coasters" refer to all of Illinois, including Chicago, as being in "flyover country." They'll admit that Chicago is something of an oasis of culture and influence in what they see as a vast sea of middle-brow, dismissible mediocrity, but it's only an oasis of culture and influence over the Midwest.

And of absolutely no importance whatsoever to California or New York.

And they certainly never would want to lower themselves to actually go live there.

___________

Edited April 10, 2012 by Jaymes (log)