Using prik chii faa chilies or substitutes in Thai cooking

[seabream]

I recently purchased a copy of the excellent "Thai Food" cookbook by David Thompson and have started cooking from it. Many recipes in the book call for "prik chii faa" or "long chilies", both fresh and dried.

I live in Seattle, which has a number of Asian supermarkets, but was unable to find these chilies (for those of you living in the area, I tried VietWa, Lam's and Hao Hao, and of course Uwajimaya). I thought about ordering the seeds online and growing them myself, and then dry them. But as I mentioned, I live in Seattle, and I think the weather over here may not be suitable to grow them.

So I have two questions:

* I'm wondering if any of you has had luck finding these chilies, in the fresh or dried form, in the United States.

* And if not, what do you use as a replacement? I was thinking of using Red Fresnos (which I can find easily and can dry them myself), following the advice of the following site: http://www.clovegarden.com/ingred/cp_thaiz.html.

I tried using the non-descript "dried red chilies" that can be found in most Asian stores with very bad results. They're very dry and keep a paper-like texture even after soaked, making them difficult to pound into curry paste. Also, the batch I got has almost no heat (or flavor).

Thanks in advance for any replies!

[Hassouni]

From what I've gathered from years of cooking Thai is that jalapeño type peppers, such as Fresnos, as you mentioned, are by far the best replacement. I have yet to see them for sale as well.

[Shalmanese]

I imagine Thai Birdseye chilis would be the closest alternative and I've definitely seen those around Seattle. They also freeze well so you can take one straight from the freezer and mince.

[rotuts]

I use Thai birds, both red and green. and it quite true that they freeze well. i get them of all places a good Indian store.

i prefer green chili's, I like that 'green' flavor.

[jmolinari]

I'm quite sure the bird chilies are MUCH hotter than the long peppers.

I have been able to find some long peppers here in Atlanta. I don't know that they are thai long peppers, but they look like a giant bird chili, and they are much milder.

they don't really taste like a jalapeno. I would say they taste like a mild bird chili, so maybe teh best substitute is a bird chili from which you've removed the seeds/membrane?

[Alcuin]

I was using red Holland chilies for the "long chilies" in Thai food and to make sambals as well. They have just the right heat. You can't really use prik kee noo (Thai bird chilies) in a red curry paste, for instance, because you need long dried red chilies that aren't as hot as the Thai bird. Green Thai bird chilies go in a green paste.

I was happily making sambal after sambal and red curries until the red Holland chilies turned green in my area and stayed that way for a while. I could only get long green chilies, which was fine because I could dry them and they'd become red dried chilies for my curries, but the sambals were out. Last week, as luck would have it, Fresno chilies popped up to replace the red Hollands, so it's sambal-city again around here. They make a good sub for the Holland, and the Holland's a good sub for the "long chili). Since these chilies are really necessary for a lot of southeast Asian dishes, you should be able to find them. If they go away, they will return because the demand is there (keep in mind that I live in the midwest-we have a relatively high Hmong population, but still, if I can find them you can probably find them too living in Seattle).

Short version: look for Holland and Fresno chilies. Some say Cayenne is a good sub, and they do work, but not as well as the Holland or Fresno because they're thinner skinned and hotter, so it's harder to get the right balance of volume to heat. You don't want your chilies to be screaming hot like the Thai bird and you need the extra material from the more meaty Holland and Fresno when long chilies are called for to make up the bulk of your pastes and sambals and whatever else you might use them for.

[EatNopales]

Actually, the Thai peppers are descendants of common Mexican peppers and the Thai varietals have not changed very much. In this case the prik chii faa is actually a type of dried serrano, the original cultivar is from Veracruz however China has (by far) become the dominant producer of chiles (most chiles sold in the big box stores & supermarkets in Mexico are actually grown in China)... I have heard that the Chinese grown dried serranos for some reason are consistently mild... I have some in my pantry that fit the mold.

I don't know where ChefShop.com dried serranos are grown but they are available online http://www.chefshop-gourmet-food-store.com/4562.html and of course any well stocked Mexican market or herb shop should have them.

The serrano chiles in Mexico are generally grown in high altitude, cool mountain climates (in fact the name serrano translates to Mountain pepper) and should do well in many U.S. climates. So next time you buy fresh serranos save the seeds of a nice spicy one & make your own prik chii faa

[seabream]

Thank you everyone for all the tips!

I will try using red Fresnos on my next curry then, as a replacement for red prik chii faa. I'm thinking that green Jalapenos or Serranos would be a good replacement for green prik chii faa, which seem to be much less common (or at least not many recipes call for them).

As far as the common "Thai chilis" (or "Prik Kii Nuu"), it is also my experience that they're much hotter than Fresnos, and not the best replacement in a recipe that calls for Prik Chii Faa. They're great for many other uses in Thai cooking though.

I have a few red Fresnos hanging in my kitchen to dry. Does anyone know how long it will take for them to dry? I'm thinking 3-4 weeks?

[EatNopales]

Thank you everyone for all the tips!

I will try using red Fresnos on my next curry then, as a replacement for red prik chii faa. I'm thinking that green Jalapenos or Serranos would be a good replacement for green prik chii faa, which seem to be much less common (or at least not many recipes call for them).

As far as the common "Thai chilis" (or "Prik Kii Nuu"), it is also my experience that they're much hotter than Fresnos, and not the best replacement in a recipe that calls for Prik Chii Faa. They're great for many other uses in Thai cooking though.

I have a few red Fresnos hanging in my kitchen to dry. Does anyone know how long it will take for them to dry? I'm thinking 3-4 weeks?

FYI.. the red prik chii faa are the same exact cultivar as the green... they are just allowed to ripen on the plant longer & then sun dried... in other words they are a nothing more than a particularly slender cultivar of sun dried serrano chiles... if you find Serrano Seco at a Mexican market it is almost identical to what you are looking for.

[EatNopales]

Thank you everyone for all the tips!

I will try using red Fresnos on my next curry then, as a replacement for red prik chii faa. I'm thinking that green Jalapenos or Serranos would be a good replacement for green prik chii faa, which seem to be much less common (or at least not many recipes call for them).

As far as the common "Thai chilis" (or "Prik Kii Nuu"), it is also my experience that they're much hotter than Fresnos, and not the best replacement in a recipe that calls for Prik Chii Faa. They're great for many other uses in Thai cooking though.

I have a few red Fresnos hanging in my kitchen to dry. Does anyone know how long it will take for them to dry? I'm thinking 3-4 weeks?

The Prik Kii Nuu are Capsicum Frutescens (while the Prik Kii Faa are Capsicum Annum just like Jalapenos, Serranos etc..) its related cultivars are the Tabasco, Piri Piri, Malagueta & Barbare (Ethiopia)... if you can't source it at Asian markets then try places with Ethiopian or Indian groceries... one Indian brand to look for is NimSim Chilli (it will be labeled Dry Red Chilli)

[djyee100]

For fresh chiles in Thai (or any SE Asian cooking) I use fresno, jalapeno, serrano, or Thai bird chiles. The jalapeno and bird chiles have a slightly bitter flavor to them that becomes pronounced if you're using a lot of them in one dish. Thai bird chiles are the hottest, jalapeno and serranos are next hottest, and fresno's are the least hot, in fact, moderate as far as chiles go and even a little sweet.

Rehydrated dried chiles are always difficult to chop finely, unless you have a super-grinder like an Indian mixie. But if the recipe calls for dried chiles, and that is a particular flavor you're aiming for...For dried chiles in Thai dishes, I use japonais chiles, chile de arbol's, and puya chiles. All these chiles may be found in Asian markets. Chile de arbol and puya chiles can also be found in Hispanic markets. Japonais chiles and chile de arbol have the best heat and flavor. One or two puya chiles in the curry paste will give it an attractive red color.

In case you think I've spent decades figuring out American substitutes for Thai chiles...No. I left that to my wonderful Thai cooking teacher, Kasma Loha-unchit, and I just do what she says.

[seabream]

Thank you for more great information.

It seems like there's agreement that Fresnos, Jalapenos and Serranos are good replacements for fresh red and green Prik Chii Faa. Good.

I did a bit of research online and read that red Fresnos don't really air-dry well at home - they're too meaty for that (would love to hear it if someone has been able to dry them successfuly). Based on this new information, I've given up on the idea of drying them myself, and decided to use purchased dry chilies instead. So thanks for the recommendations on dry chilies - I will try to find dried Serranos, Chiles de Arbol and Puya. I am planning to make a trip to the Southeast Asian supermarkets tomorrow again to see what I can find.

I think the ones I bought and used (with not so good results) in my panang curry were dried Japones chiles (the package just says "dried red chilies" but they look like the "Japones" photos I see online). Even though I soaked them in hot water and chopped them small, they were so thin and papery that they didn't mix well into the rest of the paste ingredients, resulting in world's first ever white panang curry I don't have an Indian mixie, but I do have a spice grinder, which I will try using next.

I'm wondering if dried Serranos, Chiles de Arbol or Puya are more meaty than Japones (or maybe I just got a particularly bad batch of Japones?) I'm also wondering what Thai people do to turn dried chilies into a paste - I haven't heard of a Thai version of an Indian Mixie. Maybe a real granite Thai mortar and pestle would gring them better than my smallish mortar and pestle...

Edited February 26, 2012 by seabream (log)

[djyee100]

Nix on trying to grind rehydrated chiles in an electric blade grinder. I tried it--what a mess. Those grinders are intended for dry ingredients.

My system is to chop the rehydrated chiles with a knife, then gradually grind them to a paste with a granite mortar & pestle. Before I bought the granite mortar, I used a smaller marble one. It worked. It just takes longer and you can only grind smaller quantities of paste.

Did you see this EGullet thread about the Iwatani grinder? You can join the rest of us to nag Iwatani into selling these grinders in the U.S.

[Shalmanese]

Or, you could grind the dried chiles into a powder using a spice grinder and then rehydrate. Much easier than trying to do the opposite.