The Manliest Restaurant in America?

Dakki · March 26, 2011

Not every definition of manliness involves denigrating women, eating raw water buffalo, etc.

EDIT: I assume you meant "degrading" but hell, it's past 3 AM.

Edited March 26, 2011 by Dakki (log)

**Mjx** · March 26, 2011

I can't believe no one has mentioned Hooter's.

There's a Hooters at Frankfurt airport, now! Full of fatigued and grumpy families, who would not have noticed if they'd been served by Big Bird wearing a leather hood.

I too would like some expanded parameters for 'manly'. :wink:

When I think of 'manly' in conjunction with eating, I think of those men who consider anything kitchen-related to be unmanly, for some reason, or men who are convinced that cooking edible food requires some form of occult training.

A 'manly' restaurant taking this as its starting point would not have enough dishes and flatware, so most food would be served on paper plates, with plastic flatware, and random sets of take-away chopsticks sourced from other establishments. Diners waiting for the busboy to return with more paper plates would while away time playing with their gadgets at the bar, which would have many, many bottles of vodka, each containing about 5cm of spirits. Daily specials would probably each persist for several days, owing to the quantity originally made. Orders would be placed by direct huddle with the chef (since only the chef would actually have a clear idea of the available ingredients), and takeaway would usually only be an option if you had a some sort of container in which to put your food.

The manliness of the place would be made absolute by the complete absence of women, who prefer to not confirm the truth of the rumours they've heard, via personal experience.

There probably is a restaurant like this, isn't there?

Simon_S · March 26, 2011

If you can't smoke a cigar and sup a brandy after dinner in an oak-panelled room, it's not a manly restaurant. I think that means there are no manly restaurants left, given that post-dinner cigar smoking is pretty much banned everywhere, right? Unless your definition of manliness runs to large and stodgy meat-based grub served in a location with filthy toilets and an undercurrent of imminent violence, but that's a whole other story.

Tijuana strip joints [snip...] shaved clams

Eh...?!!

BadRabbit · March 26, 2011

I hope those of you getting all upset are feigning your distress. I'm sure that there are men who enjoy lace and eating like a rabbit but that's not the typical man. Men eat meat and starches more than women. There are plenty of studies that show this to be true but just like all generalizations there are plenty of data points outside the norm.

I swear a lot of people just sit around looking for something to be offended by.

**Mjx** · March 26, 2011

. . . . Men eat meat and starches more than women. There are plenty of studies that show this to be true but just like all generalizations there are plenty of data points outside the norm.
. . . .

Eeeeh?! Please point me to one of these studies. I've often heard people say this sort of thing, but the evidence (e.g. member posts on these forums) suggests that both men and women are equally diverse in their appreciation of all sorts of foods.

BadRabbit · March 26, 2011

Mjx,

I'm on my phone right now so I can't pull up the research but let me clarify because you seem to have misunderstood what I stated. Research shows that men eat larger proportions of animal protein and starches in their diets that women do ON AVERAGE. These are American studies so I can not account for their applicability worldwide.

Men typically eat diets higher in protein and carbs because ON AVERAGE men have higher metabolism rates.

Modern political correctness has warped people to the point where any suggestion that men and women are different is treated as sexism. Sometimes it's just fact.

Moopheus · March 26, 2011

I hope those of you getting all upset are feigning your distress. I'm sure that there are men who enjoy lace and eating like a rabbit but that's not the typical man. Men eat meat and starches more than women. There are plenty of studies that show this to be true but just like all generalizations there are plenty of data points outside the norm.
I swear a lot of people just sit around looking for something to be offended by.

That is to some degree true, but historically, "manly" clubs and restaurants were designed explicitly to exclude; usually women, but also reinforce class distinctions as well. Women were not allowed. Blacks, catholics, and jews were not allowed. They had to go to their own, segregated places. It wasn't even all that long ago that this was still fairly common. Clearly, if you look at what people are calling "manly," you can see the remains of this, especially along class lines.

It isn't just about the food itself-I mean, you can go just about anywhere and get some meat 'n potatoes, if that's what you want. The food is actually not what makes the place seem "manly." What the manly American man wants is a place where he can go and not have anyone around who's going to make him eat his vegetables or remind him what the doctor said about his cholesterol. And he wants to be able to do the manly things--watch sports, smoke cigars, etc.--and indulge in some fantasy of being some sort of barely civilized frontiersman living off the land, so that he can demonstrate to his manly man friends how manly he is, and not have anyone think he's gay. 'Cause nothing terrifies the many American man like having someone think he might be gay.

Edited March 26, 2011 by Moopheus (log)

KD1191 · March 26, 2011

[T]he evidence (e.g. member posts on these forums) suggests that both men and women are equally diverse in their appreciation of all sorts of foods.

That assumes that the population of this forum consists of an accurate picture of average men and women...something that should be pretty easy to dismiss, at least with regard to any questions involving food.

Edited March 26, 2011 by KD1191 (log)

**Mjx** · March 26, 2011

Mjx,
I'm on my phone right now so I can't pull up the research but let me clarify because you seem to have misunderstood what I stated. Research shows that men eat larger proportions of animal protein and starches in their diets that women do ON AVERAGE. These are American studies so I can not account for their applicability worldwide.
Men typically eat diets higher in protein and carbs because ON AVERAGE men have higher metabolism rates.
Modern political correctness has warped people to the point where any suggestion that men and women are different is treated as sexism. Sometimes it's just fact.

I'm afraid you've misunderstood me: While political correctness is of minor interest to me, scientific correctness is not, and an unsupported statement cannot be described as representing fact. Men, as a group, have higher metabolic rates than women, but metabolic demand is not the principal determinant of choices and amounts of food consumed by human beings, particularly not among the bulk of the US population, as is evident from the rates of obesity and other conditions related to nutritional excess.

I'd pursue this further, but I realize that this is line of discussion is dragging the topic rather far from the identification of the 'manliest' restaurant going :wink:

**Mjx** · March 26, 2011

[T]he evidence (e.g. member posts on these forums) suggests that both men and women are equally diverse in their appreciation of all sorts of foods.
That assumes that the population of this forum consists of an accurate picture of average men and women...something that should be pretty easy to dismiss, at least with regard to any questions involving food.

'E.g.' means 'for example': I could add further examples, including my observations of what I've seen people eating in a number of different countries over a couple of decades. I would add that I wrote 'suggests' because this is my impression, not something I'm presenting as conclusive fact.

However, I do believe that, if we adjust for the tendency of many women to worry about what they eat/are seen eating, the difference in food preferences (when it coms to meat and starch) between men and women is probably not significant.

So, my guess would be that, regardless of how 'manly' a restaurant purported itself to be, its menu would probably be pretty much the same as that of any other of whatever genre it belonged to.

gfweb · March 26, 2011

I hope those of you getting all upset are feigning your distress. I'm sure that there are men who enjoy lace and eating like a rabbit but that's not the typical man. Men eat meat and starches more than women. There are plenty of studies that show this to be true but just like all generalizations there are plenty of data points outside the norm.
I swear a lot of people just sit around looking for something to be offended by.
That is to some degree true, but historically, "manly" clubs and restaurants were designed explicitly to exclude; usually women, but also reinforce class distinctions as well. Women were not allowed. Blacks, catholics, and jews were not allowed. They had to go to their own, segregated places. It wasn't even all that long ago that this was still fairly common. Clearly, if you look at what people are calling "manly," you can see the remains of this, especially along class lines.
It isn't just about the food itself-I mean, you can go just about anywhere and get some meat 'n potatoes, if that's what you want. The food is actually not what makes the place seem "manly." What the manly American man wants is a place where he can go and not have anyone around who's going to make him eat his vegetables or remind him what the doctor said about his cholesterol. And he wants to be able to do the manly things--watch sports, smoke cigars, etc.--and indulge in some fantasy of being some sort of barely civilized frontiersman living off the land, so that he can demonstrate to his manly man friends how manly he is, and not have anyone think he's gay. 'Cause nothing terrifies the many American man like having someone think he might be gay.

So manliness is equivalent to bigoted cretinism?

If I were to define manliness food would have little to do with it, as would the tastes of 18 year-olds.

KD1191 · March 26, 2011

[T]he evidence (e.g. member posts on these forums) suggests that both men and women are equally diverse in their appreciation of all sorts of foods.
That assumes that the population of this forum consists of an accurate picture of average men and women...something that should be pretty easy to dismiss, at least with regard to any questions involving food.
'E.g.' means 'for example': I could add further examples, including my observations of what I've seen people eating in a number of different countries over a couple of decades. I would add that I wrote 'suggests' because this is my impression, not something I'm presenting as conclusive fact.
However, I do believe that, if we adjust for the tendency of many women to worry about what they eat/are seen eating, the difference in food preferences (when it coms to meat and starch) between men and women is probably not significant.
So, my guess would be that, regardless of how 'manly' a restaurant purported itself to be, its menu would probably be pretty much the same as that of any other of whatever genre it belonged to.

You've presented some observations (aka "unsupported statement[s that] cannot be described as representing fact"). There are numerous observations above that are in opposition to your observations. They all contain an equal amount of scientific support (none). However, what seems to be clear is that meat eating in excess is associated with masculinity in popular culture and restaurant design/promotion in America, which is what the original poster seems most interested in studying. I can't conceive of any reason to "adjust for the tendency of many women to worry about what they eat/are seen eating" within the confines of the current topic nor factoring in "what [you]'ve seen people eating in a number of different countries over a couple of decades". The question is about the perception of manliness in American restaurants...I might wholeheartedly agree with most of your analysis, but it's really beside the point.

**Mjx** · March 26, 2011

. . . .You've presented some observations (aka "unsupported statement[s that] cannot be described as representing fact").

Yes, that was a point I made...

There are numerous observations above that are in opposition to your observations. They all contain an equal amount of scientific support (none).

I've never come across an actual scientific study of this topic, and did not indicate that I had; in fact, this I was questioning their existence.

However, what seems to be clear is that meat eating in excess is associated with masculinity in popular culture and restaurant design/promotion in America, which is what the original poster seems most interested in studying.

The relationship between perceptions in popular culture and reality is not what I'd describe as 'close'.

I can't conceive of any reason to "adjust for the tendency of many women to worry about what they eat/are seen eating" within the confines of the current topic nor factoring in "what [you]'ve seen people eating in a number of different countries over a couple of decades".

I'm going to answer these in reverse order: Watching what people choose to eat, particularly when they're unaccompanied/unobserved (while sitting and reading a book in a park, for example, or in their homes, when they know you very well) can be an indicator of personal preferences.

However, it isn't unusual for women modify their eating behaviour (consciously or not) in public, particularly around men. So, a woman's decision to have a salad ('No dressing, please!') and some mineral water, when she's eating out should not be assumed to be an indication of preference.

The question is about the perception of manliness in American restaurants...I might wholeheartedly agree with most of your analysis, but it's really beside the point.

Actually, the original question was 'What is the manliest restaurant in America?', the dissection of what the concept may or may not mean is just a fun bonus.

If 'manly' means having the whole 'man' thing served up on a plate, non-stop, I think whoever mentioned places that have a 'bear' clientele nailed it... but I doubt that's the desired answer.

gfweb · March 26, 2011

I hope those of you getting all upset are feigning your distress. I'm sure that there are men who enjoy lace and eating like a rabbit but that's not the typical man. Men eat meat and starches more than women. There are plenty of studies that show this to be true but just like all generalizations there are plenty of data points outside the norm.
I swear a lot of people just sit around looking for something to be offended by.
That is to some degree true, but historically, "manly" clubs and restaurants were designed explicitly to exclude; usually women, but also reinforce class distinctions as well. Women were not allowed. Blacks, catholics, and jews were not allowed. They had to go to their own, segregated places. It wasn't even all that long ago that this was still fairly common. Clearly, if you look at what people are calling "manly," you can see the remains of this, especially along class lines.
It isn't just about the food itself-I mean, you can go just about anywhere and get some meat 'n potatoes, if that's what you want. The food is actually not what makes the place seem "manly." What the manly American man wants is a place where he can go and not have anyone around who's going to make him eat his vegetables or remind him what the doctor said about his cholesterol. And he wants to be able to do the manly things--watch sports, smoke cigars, etc.--and indulge in some fantasy of being some sort of barely civilized frontiersman living off the land, so that he can demonstrate to his manly man friends how manly he is, and not have anyone think he's gay. 'Cause nothing terrifies the many American man like having someone think he might be gay.

How many offensive stereotypes can one invoke in one post?

Moopheus · March 26, 2011

So manliness is equivalent to bigoted cretinism?

Yes.

Tom Gengo · March 26, 2011

I'm sure that there are men who enjoy lace and eating like a rabbit but that's not the typical man. Men eat meat and starches more than women. There are plenty of studies that show this to be true but just like all generalizations there are plenty of data points outside the norm.
I swear a lot of people just sit around looking for something to be offended by.

I do not have a recipe for lace... does not sound very appetizing. Re. rabbit, I am looking for some fresh caught to make either sausage or a terrine de lapin. I, also, would like the sources of these apochryphal studies.

BadRabbit · March 28, 2011

I'm sure that there are men who enjoy lace and eating like a rabbit but that's not the typical man. Men eat meat and starches more than women. There are plenty of studies that show this to be true but just like all generalizations there are plenty of data points outside the norm.
I swear a lot of people just sit around looking for something to be offended by.
I do not have a recipe for lace... does not sound very appetizing. Re. rabbit, I am looking for some fresh caught to make either sausage or a terrine de lapin. I, also, would like the sources of these apochryphal studies.

Padon the delay but I took the time to look all these up in my school database to make sure that the actual studies match the abstract. I then used Google Scholar to pull up the following links so that everyone would have access to them.

There are literally thousands of studies and I couldn't find one that tried to assert that the differences between the eating habits of men and women were statistically insignificant. In fact, a great number of studies in respected nutritional journals start off with the ideas I put forth about gender preference and intake as axiomatic. I take that to mean that the field has come to broad consensus on the subject.

Here is a popular press article dealing with this subject.

http://www.salon.com/food/feature/2010/07/01/food_gendering

A study that shows that men prefer red meat more than women (granted this is with a fairly young demographic).

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6T6T-45R0VSF-3&_user=10&_coverDate=07%2F31%2F2002&_rdoc=1&_fmt=high&_orig=gateway&_origin=gateway&_sort=d&_docanchor=&view=c&_searchStrId=1696335506&_rerunOrigin=scholar.google&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=2997f30ad90e9703262a0b60fc4c3710&searchtype=a

Evidence that this is not just Americans. Finnish Men also eat more meat than Finnish women.

http://eurpub.oxfordjournals.org/content/17/5/520.short

A British study that shows that women typically follow what they term as a "virtuous" diet (i.e. healthy, more fruits and vegetables, limited red meat, low fat). Men typically followed what they termed as a "robust" diet (i.e. one that targeted foods that have high caloric density like red meat and carbs and neglected low caloric foods like green vegetables).

http://www.emeraldinsight.com/journals.htm?articleid=870649&show=abstract

A study that deals with some of the reasons why women eat differently (e.g. social pressures). These same types of social pressures also tend to push men towards "masculine" eating habits like meat and potatoes.

http://psycnet.apa.org/?fa=main.doiLanding&uid=1991-27394-001

Edited March 28, 2011 by BadRabbit (log)

BadRabbit · March 28, 2011

In addition to the scientific evidence in the studies linked above, I would bet that most people who have worked in restaurants could guess gender information fairly accurately just by looking at a food ticket.

I worked in restaurants for 10 years and can tell you that in all of them (I've worked from oyster bar up to very fine dining) women order the vast majority of salads and men order the most steaks.

It's not like these things are counterintuitive either. It is easy to posit why men would have evolutionary pressures to eat foods with higher caloric densities.

dcarch · March 28, 2011

"----women order the vast majority of salads and men order the most steaks.

It's not like these things are counterintuitive either. It is easy to posit why men would have evolutionary pressures to eat foods with higher caloric densities. "

That could be because women are more concious of counting calories.

dcarch

BadRabbit · March 28, 2011

"----women order the vast majority of salads and men order the most steaks.
It's not like these things are counterintuitive either. It is easy to posit why men would have evolutionary pressures to eat foods with higher caloric densities. "
That could be because women are more concious of counting calories.
dcarch

That's true too and is covered in one of the studies I linked but historically my statement is true also (i.e. before calorie counting and modern dietary concerns) . Modern pressures and tendencies of women to eat more healthy has just broadened an already existing gap in food intake and preferences.

jsmeeker · March 28, 2011

I've been to the place I nominated two separate times. There were plenty of women in there eating. I'm going to be there again this Friday. I suspect I will still see pelnty of women (and families) in the place this time as well. Maybe I can do some rough guestimating about the mix of men to women.

But in any case, I still stand by my nomination. Meat. Open flame. No plates. No forks.

Moopheus · March 28, 2011

It's not like these things are counterintuitive either. It is easy to posit why men would have evolutionary pressures to eat foods with higher caloric densities. "

And yet we have few restaurants dedicated to eating large quantities of nuts, seeds, and eggs.

BadRabbit · March 28, 2011

It's not like these things are counterintuitive either. It is easy to posit why men would have evolutionary pressures to eat foods with higher caloric densities. "
And yet we have few restaurants dedicated to eating large quantities of nuts, seeds, and eggs.

Ever heard of Waffle House. :raz:

EatNopales · March 28, 2011

If you can't smoke a cigar and sup a brandy after dinner in an oak-panelled room, it's not a manly restaurant. I think that means there are no manly restaurants left, given that post-dinner cigar smoking is pretty much banned everywhere, right? Unless your definition of manliness runs to large and stodgy meat-based grub served in a location with filthy toilets and an undercurrent of imminent violence, but that's a whole other story.
Tijuana strip joints [snip...] shaved clams
Eh...?!!

Do you prefer to eat clams unshaven? :biggrin:

BTW... Almejas Rasuradas / Shaven Clams are a real & popular / widespread dish of the Mexican raw seafood kitchen. Unfortunately.. most people nowadays take shortcuts and use the Maggi Mex style soy / msg sauces to provide the umami flavor instead of steaming clam shells & reducing into a cocktail sauce.

http://www.maggi.com.mx/FrmReceta.aspx?Tipo=Ingredientes&IdReceta=1192&origen=

As to the provenance of the dish name... all I can say is you need to listen to 19th Century folk music from Mexico: