Pressure Cookers: 2011 and beyond

[chippy]

G'day Pazzaglia,

The pressure inside the pressure cooker is in addition to the current atmospheric pressure. At sea level it's 1atm (14.7) + 15psi which is an absolute of 29.7 psi operating pressure . At 5,000 feet the atmospheric pressure is 12.1psi add the pressure cooker pressure you're cooking at an absolute pressure of 27.1 psi.

As the altitude increases, the atmospheric pressure decreases, and it has a direct effect on the cooker's operating pressure.

thats pretty much the way i see it written around a number of places, and i am not saying or rather not betting my life thats it wrong, thats not my field of expertise after all, its not even something that i have ever had anything to do with, ever, the only pressure i come across is from the tax man, gorgeous women and party balloons ...however atm even if the math appears to work out the logic doesnt just now. if you happen to making an article that explains it then by all means .."show me the money"

i'd very much like to read it and you can ease my pain

worried about PCing in a airplane, nah! be adventurous haha. i was going to mention about PCing in a submarine too or that its a shame they stopped those space shuttle flights, pressure cooking in space!! experiments are fun

cheers

chippy

[Simon Lewinson]

Chippy, the best explanation about absolute pressure that I can give is:

Absolute pressure is the pressure measured relative to an absolute vacuum - ie the absence of any gas molecules. The absolute pressure outside the PC is the current atmospheric pressure and the absolute pressure inside the PC is the sum of the atmospheric pressure and the pressure generated against the relief valve spring. The spring resistance is constant, hence the maximum pressure across it will be limited to the same set value.

The important thing to remember is that water's boiling point is related to absolute pressure.

Hope that makes it a bit clearer.

Simon

[lindag]

Update on the Fissler 4.2 qt. Vitaquick pressure pan.

I am deeply disappointed. While washing this pan yesterday after cooking some green beans, I see that the finish is coming off in spots on the outside! I have no idea why. And, my Amazon return period ended a few weeks ago so I will have to return the pan at my own expense and received a pro-rated refund.

Because I love this pan and use it so much I will buy a second one but will be watching it closely for signs of defect.

[pazzaglia]

Update on the Fissler 4.2 qt. Vitaquick pressure pan.

I am deeply disappointed. While washing this pan yesterday after cooking some green beans, I see that the finish is coming off in spots on the outside! I have no idea why. And, my Amazon return period ended a few weeks ago so I will have to return the pan at my own expense and received a pro-rated refund.

Because I love this pan and use it so much I will buy a second one but will be watching it closely for signs of defect.

Linda, do you mean that it's not shiny any longer, or that some of the stainless steel is actually coming off? What are you using to clean it?

Ciao,

L

[JoNorvelleWalker]

I almost ordered a Vitaquick a couple of days ago. I would love to hear more about the problems (and successes) people are having with them.

One question about the 4.2 quart model: is it tall enough to hold pint jars for steaming?

[pbear]

i can imagine it the other way around, for instance if you took the PC down to a great depth below sea level (think Jules Verne journey to center of the earth) it would heat further and rise to a higher pressure , but not because the physical properties of the spring changed but because once the pressure or steam inside the PC gained enough strength to compress the spring it would then need to be strong enough to overcome the outside atmosphere pressure..

This pretty much answers your question. The spring is measuring pressure inside vs. pressure outside. In other words, it's measuring the difference, not the absolute (total) pressure of the inside. What's true going down a mine shaft is also true going up a mountain..

[rotuts]

I have the Test Kitchen's book:

http://www.amazon.com/Pressure-Perfection-Editors-Americas-Kitchen/dp/1936493411/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1364663319&sr=1-1&keywords=pressure+cooker+perfection

which ive gotten through my local library network. Its got '100 fool proof recipes'

its in a PB format with 1 - 2 Rx / page and lots of photographs. Im no PC expert so cant comment on how good the Rx's are.

some of their books are quite good, some so-so and many seem to be rechurned out on an industrial basis with little changes to them. this one is new.

this book is at least physically attractive, and for 12 bucks, if the Rx's work might be worth it as a 'starter' book.

[rotuts]

Of Note: in the Test K's book they PC a whole on bone turkey breast. skin on. 6 lbs TB

essentially: season and brown the TB in the PC. some aromatics also browned.

PC for 35 min. quick release. transfer the TB and tent for 15 min. you then deal with the Jus for the gravy.

PC TB? I do a lot of Turkey TB and dark meat SV ..............

???? has anyone done this? wonder what the temp of that TB is as it comes out of the PC?

[Syzygies]

I have the Test Kitchen's book:

The reviews convinced me not to want this meat-centric we-invented-the-wheel tome, but also lead me to this great web site:

http://www.hippressurecooking.com/

[lindag]

Seocnd update!

I contacted Fissler customer service and found out that the brown spots on the exterior of my pan are due to calcium deposits in my water. I was told to use a stainless cleaner or vinegar and they'd come off easily.

Wow! I used Kuhn Rikon's Swiss Cleaner and with only a little scrubbing the spots were gone.

I am in love again. I was so disappointed because these pots are truly beautiful and I thought mine was defective.

No more worries!

Update on the Fissler 4.2 qt. Vitaquick pressure pan.

I am deeply disappointed. While washing this pan yesterday after cooking some green beans, I see that the finish is coming off in spots on the outside! I have no idea why. And, my Amazon return period ended a few weeks ago so I will have to return the pan at my own expense and received a pro-rated refund.

Because I love this pan and use it so much I will buy a second one but will be watching it closely for signs of defect.

[Charcuterer]

I also got the Cooks Illustrated PC cookbook. I am very impressed with the two recipes I've made so far. I made the Risotto and don't think I will ever make it the other way again. It comes out so perfect and creamy. It also reheats better than other risottos. I also made the Chicken curry with chickpeas and cauliflower. It was fantastic.

[rotuts]

the Parmesan Risotto? good to know. Im a fan of braised red cabbage, so will try their method pp142. interesting they say other types of cabbage do not work. the Ill try the braised beets with dill vinaigrette. pp 138 these are two veg I really enjoy but rarely make. for the cabbage I sometimes add penzy's curry powder.

[Charcuterer]

Yes the Parmesan Risotto. The first time I made it I followed the recipe exactly but the second time I stirred in some sautéed Kale and leeks and some green peas at the end (mind blowing - if Risotto can be mind blowing.).

The curried chicken I made called for Penzy's but all I had in the house was some I had bought in Barbados. I'm sure the flavor was influenced by the West Indies curry but it was darn good. I will try the red cabbage too it's a favorite in my house as well.

Edited April 1, 2013 by Charcuterer (log)

[lindag]

I have made the CI Chicken curry recipe but haven't tried the new PC version of it. I'm sure it will be every bit as good. It's one of my favorites too.

I also got the Cooks Illustrated PC cookbook. I am very impressed with the two recipes I've made so far. I made the Risotto and don't think I will ever make it the other way again. It comes out so perfect and creamy. It also reheats better than other risottos. I also made the Chicken curry with chickpeas and cauliflower. It was fantastic.

[Miss Priss]

Of Note: in the Test K's book they PC a whole on bone turkey breast. skin on. 6 lbs TB

essentially: season and brown the TB in the PC. some aromatics also browned.

PC for 35 min. quick release. transfer the TB and tent for 15 min. you then deal with the Jus for the gravy.

PC TB? I do a lot of Turkey TB and dark meat SV ..............

???? has anyone done this? wonder what the temp of that TB is as it comes out of the PC?

I often do this with half a bone-in turkey breast, with the skin removed to reduce fat. It's a quick, tasty weeknight meal for two people. The last one I made was 3 pounds, a bit larger than usual. I cooked it for about 25 minutes on high pressure followed by about 10 minutes of natural release. I didn't check the temperature, but the results were fine. You don't say how much liquid the ATK recipe calls for, but I've found that not much is needed, as the meat releases plenty of juice.

I have the Test Kitchen's book:

The reviews convinced me not to want this meat-centric we-invented-the-wheel tome, but also lead me to this great web site:

http://www.hippressurecooking.com/

CI's/ATK's "we-invented-the-wheel" attitude even informs the title of their pressure cooker cookbook. I hope they were just oblivious to the existence of Lorna Sass's excellent "Pressure Perfect," published in 2004, and not actually looking to profit from any customer confusion.

Hip Pressure Cooking is a really impressive and useful site, and its owner has contributed several posts to this thread. She has also recently authored a cookbook: http://www.amazon.com/Everything-Healthy-Pressure-Cookbook-Wine/dp/1440541868/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1364934654&sr=8-1&keywords=pazzaglia

(No, I'm not her agent--or a relative--just a fan!)

[rotuts]

the Rx in the book for whole turkey breast asks for 2 C low sodium chicken stock and 1/4 C dry white wine, 3 T all purpose flour

which is reduced to 2 C after the turkey is cooked and removed from the pan.

[Miss Priss]

the Rx in the book for whole turkey breast asks for 2 C low sodium chicken stock and 1/4 C dry white wine, 3 T all purpose flour

which is reduced to 2 C after the turkey is cooked and removed from the pan.

That seems like a lot of liquid, but it makes sense if you want a lot of gravy. I'm not a gravy lover, so my approach is more like a braise. For the 3-lb breast half, I used about 1/4 cup white wine and a scant 1/4 cup water. The ingredients included a large sliced onion, which also threw off some liquid. My pressure cooker is the type that releases virtually no steam, so I ended up with quite a bit more liquid than I started with. Even though much of it came from the turkey, the meat was very moist.

[pazzaglia]

Thanks Syzigies and Miss Priss!

Im a fan of braised red cabbage, so will try their method pp142. interesting they say other types of cabbage do not work. the Ill try the braised beets with dill vinaigrette. pp 138 these are two veg I really enjoy but rarely make. for the cabbage I sometimes add penzy's curry powder.

I haven't seen the book, so I can't comment on their braising technique. What are they doing to their red cabbage that can't be done to another?

I've been able to braise both regular and savoy cabbage with bacon and beer or stock and thick-cut chops as a one pot meal. My cabbage recipes just need a few minutes in the pressure cooker - maybe they're asking for more?

I mentioned earlier that sample recipes I've seen from America's Test Kitchen online kinda do overkill with the cooking times (don't stir the rice or it will get gummy?) and a bit repetitive (nine recipes for mashed potatoes according to their index)!

I'm all about getting more pressure cookers in everyone's kitchen and teaching cooks how to use them. So, even if America's Test Kitchen rushed out cookbook capitalizing on a growing trend, it makes me giddy with delight to see them spending their publicity dollars to promote pressure cooking.

Go ATK!

Ciao,

L

Edited April 3, 2013 by pazzaglia (log)

[pazzaglia]

For the super-geeks, and intensely curious.

I just published a researched article about pressure cookers and their PSI Lots of neat info about the true pressure of European-manufactured pressure cookers (it goes down to inches vs. centimeters), why US cookers freaked people out for so long (you can't make a cooker in a bomb factory), and how outside pressure affects what is happening in the pressure cooker (read this if you live in Denver or higher ; )

Pressure Cooker PSI FAQ: stuff you didn’t think to ask

http://www.hippressurecooking.com/2013/04/pressure-cooker-psi.html

Edited April 3, 2013 by pazzaglia (log)

[rotuts]

in fairness to TK's book: there are 3 mashed RX: white has 1 w 2 variations: pp 148; Red ( smashed ) pp 150 w 2 variations; Sweet pp 146 with 2 variations. they just list the variations as a separate line in the idx.

I am surprised that on the red cabbage they say not to use other cabbage : " Can another type of cabbage work in this Rx? : No. other types of cabbage such as green, Napa, chinese cannot be subbed ..."

odd they would add something to an Rx rather than commit the usual sin of not adding a great tip to an Rx. maybe they feel the times for the red would kill the thinner green cabbage.

their times for the red are 10 min under pressure they use for one head of Red 1/2 C low salt Ck stock and 1 T cider vinegar.

its an attractive " looking " book and will sure to get some reluctant people into PC.

[Miss Priss]

in fairness to TK's book: there are 3 mashed RX: white has 1 w 2 variations: pp 148; Red ( smashed ) pp 150 w 2 variations; Sweet pp 146 with 2 variations. they just list the variations as a separate line in the idx.

I am surprised that on the red cabbage they say not to use other cabbage : " Can another type of cabbage work in this Rx? : No. other types of cabbage such as green, Napa, chinese cannot be subbed ..."

odd they would add something to an Rx rather than commit the usual sin of not adding a great tip to an Rx. maybe they feel the times for the red would kill the thinner green cabbage.

their times for the red are 10 min under pressure they use for one head of Red 1/2 C low salt Ck stock and 1 T cider vinegar.

its an attractive " looking " book and will sure to get some reluctant people into PC.

ATK's timing might kill the red cabbage too! Ten minutes at high pressure will practically liquify it. If the red cabbage is fresh, 4 or 5 minutes should be plenty.

There's no reason you can't make green cabbage in a pressure cooker, but it cooks pretty quickly by conventional means, so there's not much incentive there.

[pazzaglia]

10 minutes is TOTALLY too long for cabbage of any color!!! My guess... they didn't have time to test the other cabbages.

Before I knew they had a cookbook on the way, when I saw a preview of their online recipes - I tried to contact the Test Kitchen to warn them about their cooking times. One of their employees (maybe more) follows me on twitter. Though he was not involved in the pressure cooker testing and recipe development I asked him to pass on my comments to the "project manager." I think I even offered to give them advice on cooking times.

I didn't get a reply and it looks like their book was probably already at the printer's back then.

From the point of view of an expert, it's obvious from the equipment reviews that SOMEBODY didn't know how to properly operate a pressure cooker. Their temperature measurements and appalling results from top-quality cookers are all tell-tale signs of not understanding WHEN a pressure cooker reaches pressure and HOW low to turn down the heat (they were forcing non-venting cookers vent and running them on a commercial range).

It looks like a whole team worked on the book - but if basic knowledge is not learned by the project manager and passed on to the team you get REALLY WEIRD results and pressure cooking times.

Personally, I think a lot of knowledge comes with experience and observation. You can't wake up one day and say "let's write a cookbook about pressure cookers" following the same process and testing for writing a cookbook about cookies.

ATK should have sent a couple of employees home with a cooker and asked them to cook every meal in it for a year. That organization has a vast repository of ingredient knowledge and talented cooks - had this been combined with intimate knowledge of the pressure cooker and its workings they could have produced a real masterpiece of a cookbook (with new techniques and short-cuts).

Pressure cooking is absolutely amazing. Harnessing all the little quirks and advantages of this cooking method and applying it to everyday cooking is something that Lorna Sass and Jill Nussinow started and I hope to continue until everyone has a pressure cooker in their kitchen - and microwave in the garage. ; )

Ciao,

L

Edited April 4, 2013 by pazzaglia (log)

[chippy]

. . . Their temperature measurements and appalling results from top-quality cookers are all tell-tale signs of not understanding WHEN a pressure cooker reaches pressure and HOW low to turn down the heat (they were forcing non-venting cookers vent and running them on a commercial range).

Ciao,

L

L,

could you please elaborate on how they incorrectly (appallingly?) measured the max temperature ?

i for one would like to know, i'm sure others would like to know as well. all i can do is assume (if not trust ) they did it correctly, they had their computer readouts and graphs etc i assume they didnt just draw em up

cheers

chippy

(short utube thing on that PC test by ATK) Edited April 4, 2013 by chippy (log)

[chippy]

Oh and just incase anyone missed my recently asked question (it kinda quite swept to one side with a unimportant side issue), i include it below for your convienience

. . . apart from the obvious that i outline in a moment, does anyone happen to know the difference between Kuhn Rikon, Inox and Top range, Inox (afaik, AKA Duromatic) being the more common model with the little stainless steel Oriental shape hat that sits upon the lid as a cover to the valve and the Top model (AKA Duromatic Top) has the big black plastic knob that can turn and lock into position to slow release steam when your finished cooking

some specs i have seen, such as this supplier say simply both 7L (7qt) models are both 22cm (8-3/4") , one would assume (especially since i have seen parts list drawings where the lids appear to be one and the same) the lids are practically interchangeable except the handles look different, but pages such as this one, comparing the two models 3344 & 3918 show that they are quite different pots ? size is different, as is weight (significantly) between the two pots according to that page, which is somewhat confusing as they didn't mention in their review that the newer Top model was made of thicker or heavier steel ! considering that they say the pots are 16.1 x 9.8 x 9.2 vs (Top) 14 x 9 x 8 , yet the Duromatic Top, even though smaller in every dimension weighs 2lbs more ! i would have thought that was something to take notice of , or i am i confused in some way ?

and further to the talk on PC cookbooks, can anyone recommend one or three...perhaps list three or four of the considered best will make it so no body feels like they are shrugging off any one particular favourite they might have.

cheers

chippy

[pazzaglia]

could you please elaborate on how they incorrectly (appallingly?) measured the max temperature ?

i for one would like to know, i'm sure others would like to know as well. all i can do is assume (if not trust ) they did it correctly, they had their computer readouts and graphs etc i assume they didnt just draw em up

cheers

chippy

(short utube thing on that PC test by ATK)

Chippy,

I did not say they used the wrong TOOLS to measure the temperature. I said they measured the internal temperatures while operating the pressure cooker INCORRECTLY.

It's worth noting that the video, article or blog posts do not give details on how they used the remote temperature logger. Was it on a steamer basket? Was it stainless steel or silicone? Did they put it in the cooking liquid? How much liquid? Was the water salty? Did they put the logger in potato? How big was the potato? Where was the potato placed?

All of these variables can play a role in reading temperatures inside a pressure cooker.

Don't assume just because you see charts and graphs in a video clip that measuring tools were used correctly OR repeatedly OR in the same conditions OR following the procedure recommended in the instruction manual.

Ciao,

L

Edited April 4, 2013 by pazzaglia (log)