Pressure Cookers: 2011 and beyond

[Raamo]

We saw ATK 1302 this Saturday they made Peanut Butter Sandwich cookies that my wife said are looked like the girl scout cookies and a "fancy" carrot cake. So it started sooner here in Minnesota - though the guide on my windows 7 DVR told me it was a repeat. So no idea whats up with that.

What is funny about this years ATK vs Last years... the same exact recipe exists in both. The tri cut pork loin spread with garlic butter and finished with herbs du Provence - it's the first time they've duplicated a recipe year to year. I'm wondering if they'll explain why when they broadcast the episode. I've made the recipe 4x it's turned out fairly well.

[rotuts]

your right! Id think they would wait several years. they only thing is it's 'updated' some way. I haven't looked at both that closely.

[thock]

I bought a 23qt Presto pressure canner from Amazon for the flexibility the size gives me. Its a jiggle top though.

My understanding from looking at a some of the pressure cooking stuff is that most of it can be cooked in a container inside a pressure cooker. I hope that's true. There might have to be some adjustments for moisture, like in the peanut sauce recipe.

Yes, that's true, and you can also use it as a canner. That's what I have done, although I did inherit a 6L T-Fal from a friend who was moving away. I use that one, too, but not as a canner, just as a cooker.

Edited January 21, 2013 by thock (log)

[Raamo]

your right! Id think they would wait several years. they only thing is it's 'updated' some way. I haven't looked at both that closely.

The only change I found was how they wrapped up the meat after it was cut open 2x to make a long "book", 2012 it's rolled up (which is how I prefer it) but in 2013 it's re stacked.

[rotuts]

interesting. I see this as the same?

[pazzaglia]

Here is a recipe list for America's Test Kitchen's upcoming "Pressure Cooker Perfection" Cookbook:

http://www.americast...ker-perfection/

BTW, there are 9 mashed-potato, 4 potato salads, 3 mashed squash, 4 Mac & Cheese, and 3 Chicken and Rice recipes - and that's about a qurter of the book, right there!

Speaking of Chicken and Rice... here is a sample recipe from the book:

http://www.cooksillu...asp?docid=41696

In my opinon, this dish is WAAY overcooked - bone-in chicken pieces only need 8-10 minutes at high pressure - even THAT is too long for long-grain rice. Instead, this recipe pressure cooks both for 15 minutes.

Which is probably why the instructions say..

"Once you release pressure, be gentle with the rice to ensure it doesn’t turn gummy. Just sprinkle the peas, parsley, and lemon juice over the top of the rice, cover the pot, let the rice steam and the peas cook through off the heat, then gently fluff the flavorings into the cooked rice with a fork."

Translation: don't stir the rice or it will turn to mush.

I don't plan to buy the book, but will galdy comment on if ATC sends me one for review (I haven't asked and they haven't offered).

I'm interested to read what you think when you get it, though.

Ciao,

L

Edited January 22, 2013 by pazzaglia (log)

[pazzaglia]

You can read the pressure cooker reviews on the ATK website, now - they were previously pay-to-click:

http://www.cooksillu...asp?docid=41600

And the accompanying article, which was always free-to-see:

http://www.cooksillu...asp?docid=41600

I have used 5 of the 8 cookers listed - 6 if you count the Euro Vitaquick (which appears to be re-disgned for US) and thoroughly reviewed 2 of them.

Can't say that I agree with America's Test kitchen's conclusions. One of the dings is due to apparent user error like "yoyo adjustments" for the Kuhn (user did not find the proper heat setting) and "struggling to maintain pressure" for the Magefesa (the photo of that cooker does not appear to have the valve correctly in place). The "extreme" evaporation from the Kuhn, is due to running the cooker on too-high heat (adjusting a Kuhn is tricky at first - but it's not impossible ). The article makes a big deal about some cookers not reaching 250F (15psi) but don't describe how they actually measured the internal temperature - they write the WMF reached 247F which is a bit strange for 13PSI cooker!

Unlike the ATK reviewers, I haven't had any issues with "bulging cookers". I absolutely love the "beer belly" on the Fagor Futuro which accommodates larger cuts of meat without having to go to the expense of getting a pressure braiser (though those are REALLY nice, and REALLY wide!) - no scorching, though I haven't made a crepe in it like ATK testers.

I had the most trouble with their "highly recommended" model - the Fagor Duo. It works great, but it's tricky to lock the lid shut and to tell when it has really reached pressure - it's prone to false positives which in turn alerts the cook to turn down the heat too soon.

Unfortunately, I cannot comment on their highly recommended model Vitaquick - I only have their Euro model and could never get it to work properly. I reviewed the big- sister the Vitavit and it broke during the review process (it was great while it lasted - except for the laser-beam three-directional pressure release). On the bright side, the US Vitaquick appears to have substantial changes from the Euro model - and if it's anything like the US Blue point (their previous US model) then I expect that it performed quite well.

Ciao,

L

P.S. Did you see the WSJ pressure cooker reviews? One got dinged because it was ugly:

http://online.wsj.co...=googlenews_wsj

Edited January 22, 2013 by pazzaglia (log)

[adey73]

Shame they still languishing in Imperial measurements.

That's one buyer lost.

[rotuts]

" Speaking of Chicken and Rice... here is a sample recipe from the book:

http://www.cooksillu...asp?docid=41696

In my opinon, this dish is WAAY overcooked - bone-in chicken pieces only need 8-10 minutes at high pressure - even THAT is too long for long-grain rice. Instead, this recipe pressure cooks both for 15 minutes.""

looks like Kimball et. al. are just jumping on the bandwagon! show me the ....

[Raamo]

" Speaking of Chicken and Rice... here is a sample recipe from the book:

http://www.cooksillu...asp?docid=41696

In my opinon, this dish is WAAY overcooked - bone-in chicken pieces only need 8-10 minutes at high pressure - even THAT is too long for long-grain rice. Instead, this recipe pressure cooks both for 15 minutes.""

looks like Kimball et. al. are just jumping on the bandwagon! show me the ....

That is interesting, we'll reserve judgment till we have the book. I've been cooking for years out of ATK/CI and other cookbooks and the CI empire of books has turned out better results then pretty much any other book we've tried.

[rotuts]

I agree with the above, but its interesting to note they have not yet aired a show with the PC

[adey73]

Given the full range, the Kuhn Rikon model Cooks Illustrated chose to test is an odd call.

It's the least good shape for anything other than stock.

Edited January 22, 2013 by adey73 (log)

[pazzaglia]

Given the full range, the Kuhn Rikon model Cooks Illustrated chose to test is an odd call.

It's the least good shape for anything other than stock.

Good point about the selection! They could have used Kuhn Rikon's "Bubba" (the 8L braiser) if they wanted shallow and wide.

http://kuhnrikon.com/products/pressure_cookers/pressure.php3?id=15

Also, their selection of electric pressure cookers to test was curious. They complained about the non-stick interior, puny size, and spinning inner pot but did not include electrics with stainless steel cooking pots, or the oval 8L electric cooker (which I assume would not spin).

Ciao,

L

[lindag]

I expect that the KR braiser was deselected due to its whopping pricetag of $480!

I own several KRs and each one is a thing of beauty and performs exactly as it should.

One caveat though is the bottom disc. Since it doesn't cover the entire bottom, I occasionally get just a bit of scorching around the sides.

The Fissler calls to me for just that reason, the disc covers all of the bottom of the pot.

[Miss Priss]

I own several KRs and each one is a thing of beauty and performs exactly as it should.

Completely agree. I love my Kuhn Rikon and feel that CI sold this model very short--as they did the the last time they reviewed stovetop pressure cookers, 6 or 7 years ago. In that review, they claimed there was no way to quickly release the pressure from a Kuhn Rikon on the stovetop, even though the manual clearly explains (with illustrations) how to do it. That mistake really reduced my confidence in their equipment reviews.

I haven't found the size of the Kuhn Rikon's bottom disc to be a problem, and have never (yet) had scorching just around the rim of the disc. I've occasionally scorched the entire bottom by forgetting to turn the heat down or cooking starchy foods without enough liquid. The upside of those disasters was the discovery that these pots clean up remarkably well.

[tracey.aaron]

My first post!!!! My 20-year-old 6Q stove-top Cuisinart died (injector pin split and it won't seal), and no replacement parts have been available for several years now. I nursed it along as long as I could. I am looking for a new PC and one I can also use to can the buckets of great veg and chicken stock I make in the PC. My use is mostly as cooker (1-2 times week) but canning stock and soup is appealing to me. I use boiling water bath for tomatoes already, but would love to can what I now freeze and need a pressure canner for that. I don't want a huge PC/C, but one that stores in my pots-and-pans cupboard so I can drag it out on a weeknight for stew, but that I can also use to can 3-4 quarts of stock in after I've made it in the cooker. I am looking for long-term use, so willing to invest. Ideas for me? I have been stalking Fissler, Kuhn-Rikon and a couple of Fagor models, but want to know what the current thinking is. Thanks for any/all advice and suggestions.

T

[lindag]

I purchased two Fissler models recently: the 6.4 qt. and the 4.2 at pressure pan that comes with the steamer insert and glass lid.

I am WOWED! As a devoted K-R user, I cannot believe the amazing quality of these Fissler pans. They truly are works of art.

Beautiful and they perform flawlessly! Completely silent while cooking. And that full size disc on the bottom ensures that there's no scorching.

For someone who does stocks, the 8.5 qt model sounds ideal. But I believe it is still out-of-stock at most dealers.

Cooks Illustrated is on hiatus now while PBS is doing their fundraising. But it should be back on air soon and the CI pressure cooker cookbook will be out on the 15th. Yay!

[tracey.aaron]

Thanks! Did you buy the Blue Point or the Vitaquick? The Fissler site says Vitaquick is in "pre-order" status still. BluePoint in 8.5 and 10.6 qt models is available *new* on eBay still, so I'm stalking those sales as well. But if the Vitaquick is worth waiting a few more weeks for, then I will....and then I'll decide!

[Syzygies]

The Fissler Vitaquick Pressure Cooker, 8.5qt is back in stock various places. I ordered one today from Amazon: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00873AOIU

[lindag]

Thanks! Did you buy the Blue Point or the Vitaquick? The Fissler site says Vitaquick is in "pre-order" status still. BluePoint in 8.5 and 10.6 qt models is available *new* on eBay still, so I'm stalking those sales as well. But if the Vitaquick is worth waiting a few more weeks for, then I will....and then I'll decide!

I got the Vitaquick, I believe it's a better quality pot.

[tracey.aaron]

So, is the Vitaquick a good choice (probably at 10.6 qt level) for pressure canning, too? Interested in both. Thanks much, all.

[chippy]

Hello folks! (just the text in bold is what i need to know, all the rest is ramblings if you want to skip it)

this looks like the place to ask pressure cooker questions

apart from the obvious that i outline in a moment, does anyone happen to know the difference between Kuhn Rikon, Inox and Top range, Inox (afaik, AKA Duromatic) being the more common model with the little stainless steel Oriental shape hat that sits upon the lid as a cover to the valve and the Top model (AKA Duromatic Top) has the big black plastic knob that can turn and lock into position to slow release steam when your finished cooking

some specs i have seen, such as this supplier say simply both 7L (7qt) models are both 22cm (8-3/4") , one would assume (especially since i have seen parts list drawings where the lids appear to be one and the same) the lids are practically interchangeable except the handles look different, but pages such as this one, comparing the two models 3344 & 3918 show that they are quite different pots ? size is different, as is weight (significantly) between the two pots according to that page, which is somewhat confusing as they didn't mention in their review that the newer Top model was made of thicker or heavier steel ! considering that they say the pots are 16.1 x 9.8 x 9.2 vs (Top) 14 x 9 x 8 , yet the Duromatic Top, even though smaller in every dimension weighs 2lbs more ! i would have thought that was something to take notice of , or i am i confused in some way ?

i notice also that they say the second line is the 15psi setting but after much research that seems to be arbitrary number bandied about in North America mostly, not the actual real pressure obtained (even in Nth America), like most of the PC i have seen so far the first line is meant to be about 0.4 bar and the second setting/line they use is 0.8bar , not that thats the absolute max they reach, as the Kuhn Rikon valve has its pressure limitation function (if selected setting is exceeded) set to release at a max of 1.2bar ,which doesn't mean it wont release before it gets to 1.2bar and most likely never quite gets to that would be my guess, considering how companies like to be safe and keep themselves legally protected..that space between 0.8 and say 1.2bar might be just small enough to explain why some have said its a little bit finicky to get the flame just right, although if one looks at that Cooks Illustrated test page it shows that the KR only got to a peak of 240F (115.5C) which appears to be about 0.73 bar (10.6 psi) , go figure, i guess that definitely makes it difficult to balance it ! the Fissler was said to peak at 253F (about 122C) or approx 1.15bar which seems more respectable but their instructions say its pressure limitation function (if selected pressure is exceeded) can peak at a max of 1.5 bar (which would be about 262F, 128C and approx 16psi) but no doubt its that industrial safety margin (or perhaps they all just rip us off lol) and of course their recommended operating at the high level is the common 0.8 bar (approx 243F or 117C and approx 11.6psi)

i've been meaning to get a PC for years but just never got around to it (they were always expensive in our local shops for what is largely a time saving device albeit with pitfalls of not being able to see and taste the food as it is cooking as you can with a regular pot), used to use one when i was a kid, my parents old jiggler type, i never did like what came out of it though, as often as not we got corned beef with a tasteless white sauce that i couldnt bare as a kid, i hated it so much i have never eaten it since, i was never a big meat eater then, any veggies cooked in it were a soggy affair, the kitchen sink sponge had nicer texture and flavour, probable more vitamins too hmm fond memories of that tasty kitchen sponge ...thats how bad some of my memories are lol, but to be fair if the veggies were cooked by the other method in our childhood home, boiling in a pot, they were just as soggy, it must have been the way some people liked them in those days i guess, like they come out of a can, well not me.

so i have narrowed it down to perhaps two or three brands (not that the others are poorly in some way but one has to draw the line somewhere) , kuhn rikon Inox look the nicest to me (the Top a little more practical), its valve mechanism is pretty straight forward and simple which to my mind bodes well for long term durability, the fissler obviously appears to get the highest pressure, they keep the parts for a least ten years so i guess one can stock up on a few parts so the pot can be used after that, they seem easy enough to replace valve parts as well...and then because looking at these and trying to get to the nitty gritty has been so frustrating at times i've thrown my arms up a thought may as well get a basic Presto PC even though it will rattle and hiss its simple, cheap and no doubt works , most Presto's ive seen are aluminium though which i dont want, SS much better for obvious reasons

i think mainly i want it for various legume dishes we enjoy and i will give some casseroles a go in a pressure cooker too, we (as a family) seem more pressed for time nowadays although we still do cook-ups on weekends when we have the opportunity, cook-ups on weekends sometimes consist of making large 20-25 Liters or so of Bolognese sauce, once in a blue moon we have two 25L pots going so i dont see a pressure cooker taking over that role due to the amount (we use it as a foundation base for many other cultural dishes too by adding various ingredients to it at a latter stage when taken from freezer), casseroles of all sorts , many indian dishes are a favourite for us but also old favourites like osso bucco or minestrone in winter, actually we like many different cultural dishes. a pressure cooker might give us the opportunity to cook one up mid week if we dont have one frozen from a weekend cook-up. week end cooking is fun though, everyone helps chop and prepare ingredients and get them going in large pots on the stove, when all the hard work is done everybody gives it a stir when they walk past, the smells are gorgeous through the kitchen or house and after a few hours no one can resist pinching a spoonful from the slow, volcanic like bubbling surface every so often, on the pretence of giving it a required taste test of course! it tastes just soo yumm!

well thats part of my trails and tribulations in search for a PC ...so back to my question does anyone have first hand knowledge and know the difference between the Kuhn Rikon; Inox and Top models (3344 vs 3918 for example)

oh! one more thing that got me side tracked was about how ppl believe at high altitude the pressure cooker doesn't reach the same pressure it does at sea level. how can that be? i havnt given it much thought admittedly, well not much intellectual thought, just the same annoying distracting thought you give to a rubix cube (swish, straight in the bin with that stupid thing ) but surely it gets to the same temp as it does at sea level, its basically a sealed unit, its the internal pressure that affects the valve not the external, so whilst it might take longer to reach max temp (maybe) surely the temp/pressure on the inside is the same. i dont think if you were a potato sitting on the inside of the pot at sea level , which for the sake of this argument is sitting upon a stove inside the worlds tallest elevator, getting a steam bath at say, 240F (10.6psi) and then someone presses the button to go to the penthouse several thousands of feet above sea level, as the potato it doesnt get any cooler for you as you go up, your still sitting in 240F/10.6psi steam and well on your way to being mashed in a few minutes with gravy, onions and sausages to keep you company...or another example is water boils at 100C in the airplane sitting on the runway at sea level, close the doors pressurise the cabin to sea level (1bar or 14.69psi) and fly up to 40 000 feet or whatever they fly around at, water still boils at 100C doesn't it if you used a pressure cooker on a stove in an airplane at 40 000 feet the PC would get just as hot as it does on the runway eh!

(for boiling water at 100C in a normal open pot it needs to be in a modern airplane thats pressurised to same as sea level of course, it wouldnt work for Amelia Earheart or Sir Ross Smith in their old clunkers, they would run out fuel and crash waiting for that to happen)

cheers

chippy

water_pressure_boiling_temperature.pdf

Edited March 25, 2013 by chippy (log)

[Simon Lewinson]

[sNIP]

oh! one more thing that got me side tracked was about how ppl believe at high altitude the pressure cooker doesn't reach the same pressure it does at sea level. how can that be? i havnt given it much thought admittedly, well not much intellectual thought, just the same annoying distracting thought you give to a rubix cube (swish, straight in the bin with that stupid thing ) but surely it gets to the same temp as it does at sea level, its basically a sealed unit, its the internal pressure that affects the valve not the external, so whilst it might take longer to reach max temp (maybe) surely the temp/pressure on the inside is the same. i dont think if you were a potato sitting on the inside of the pot at sea level , which for the sake of this argument is sitting upon a stove inside the worlds tallest elevator, getting a steam bath at say, 240F (10.6psi) and then someone presses the button to go to the penthouse several thousands of feet above sea level, as the potato it doesnt get any cooler for you as you go up, your still sitting in 240F/10.6psi steam and well on your way to being mashed in a few minutes with gravy, onions and sausages to keep you company...or another example is water boils at 100C in the airplane sitting on the runway at sea level, close the doors pressurise the cabin to sea level (1bar or 14.69psi) and fly up to 40 000 feet or whatever they fly around at, water still boils at 100C doesn't it if you used a pressure cooker on a stove in an airplane at 40 000 feet the PC would get just as hot as it does on the runway eh!

(for boiling water at 100C in a normal open pot it needs to be in a modern airplane thats pressurised to same as sea level of course, it wouldnt work for Amelia Earheart or Sir Ross Smith in their old clunkers, they would run out fuel and crash waiting for that to happen)

cheers

chippy

water_pressure_boiling_temperature.pdf

Chippy

The pressure relief valve will open at a preset pressure across it - if the ambient pressure drops, then so does the absolute pressure inside the PC. The temperature that water boils at depends upon absolute pressure, and thus, at higher altitudes a PC will lheat to a lower temperature than at sea level when the relief valve vents. The temperature difference should be nearly the same as the difference in the boiling point of water at the same altitude.

Aircraft generally do not run the cabin pressure at sea level equivalent due to the stress on the fuselage. The norm for commercial aircraft is to pressurise to 8000 feet above sea level.

The critical thing to remember is that water boiling depends upon absolute pressure whereas relief valves and gauges generally work on "Gauge" pressure which is the difference between the pressure being measured and ambient atmospheric pressure..

Simon

Edited March 25, 2013 by Simon Lewinson (log)

[pazzaglia]

The pressure inside the pressure cooker is in addition to the current atmospheric pressure. At sea level it's 1atm (14.7) + 15psi which is an absolute of 29.7 psi operating pressure . At 5,000 feet the atmospheric pressure is 12.1psi add the pressure cooker pressure you're cooking at an absolute pressure of 27.1 psi.

As the altitude increases, the atmospheric pressure decreases, and it has a direct effect on the cooker's operating pressure.

I'm finishing up a very detailed article which will include tables for adjusted pressure cooker pressure by altitude and more visually explains all of this with charts and tables. I've been getting a lot of questions and see a lot of confusion so I've gathered them all up into the ultimate PSI FAQ.

Will post a link when it's ready if anyone is interested.

Ciao,

L

P.S. I do not recommend in-flight pressure cooking.

Edited March 25, 2013 by pazzaglia (log)

[chippy]

Thanks Simon,

i knew there had to be some sort of scientific reason for it, not that i have my head around your explanation just yet, not sure what the term 'absolute pressure' means?...also i wasnt being exactly literal about the actual pressures in airplanes, just drawing a mental picture to illustrate what i was getting at... .. the point i was trying to get across was if the airplane did presurise to sea level psi then water would boil inside at 100C no matter what altitude it was flying at wouldnt it? so by rudimentary (maybe flawed?) parallel food inside the PC (food being like the water in the pot in the airplane, the airplane being the PC) in the mountains would cook at the same temp as at sea level too

one of the ideas that gets me stuck atm, which rubs against the idea its relative to outside pressure, is the pressure valve as near as i can see is purely a mechanical thing, a spring in the case of Kuhn Rikon, or rather the strength of the spring. as pressure builds up on the inside it pushes against the bottom metal pin/valve until it has enough pressure to push the pin up against the strength of the spring (nothing to do with outside atmosphere)..the atmosphere on the outside of the pressure cooker doesnt alter the physical strength of the spring, afiak it doesnt weaken the strength of the spring or is steel weaker depending on what city or elevation it is located in, maybe it does ? that would be interesting!.

i can imagine it the other way around, for instance if you took the PC down to a great depth below sea level (think Jules Verne journey to center of the earth) it would heat further and rise to a higher pressure , but not because the physical properties of the spring changed but because once the pressure or steam inside the PC gained enough strength to compress the spring it would then need to be strong enough to overcome the outside atmosphere pressure...as another 'ilustration' if you took the PC below sea level down to the depths of the ocean and you have to pretend the water isnt cooling down the pot at all ,sorry lol, the valve would activate at the pressure it was designed to (from the inside) but no venting would happen until it overcame the secondary pressure of the water

anyways if i come across some literature that explains it i will sit down and read it or some simple lay explanation comes along i'm all for it :-)

cheers

chippy