Venison: can the entire torso be roasted in one large piece?

[Mjx]

My sense is that attempting to roast an entire deer torso (all that attaches to the thoracic and lumbar spine, but nothing else) in one piece wouldn't yield particularly good results, but I've never tried it, and realize I may be completely mistaken; I'm being urged to do this for the upcoming, major holiday dinner. The venison I'm supposed to be preparing is from a small deer (the entire piece is 2.5 kg/5.5 lb and about 55cm/22"; yes, it was an adult), and I can understand the appeal of presenting it whole, but the cuts of venison I've worked with previously tended to demand very different treatments, so I just can't see how this would work (leaving aside the logistics of fitting the whole thing into the oven, never mind finding a roasting pan to hold it).

I've looked at some of the existing venison threads, but the approaches described seem to focus on individual cuts; I'm guessing that there is an excellent reason for this. I had hoped to be able to do a trial run on this, but it didn't happen.

Has anyone here roasted this large of a section of venison, and if so, with what results? Any suggestions would be much appreciated.

[Doodad]

I saw this yesterday on Bizarre Foods. They stuffed it with offal, butter and bacon and placed it wrapped in foil on a fire pit and covered the whole thing. I assume for hours.

[budrichard]

If your piece is as described you should have the back straps and tenderloins included. If they are not present, then someone has just given you the spinal column which is not of any use and usually thrown away except for possibly the ribs if attached.

The back straps and tenderloin are the best cuts and are usually seared and oven finished to rare, and served hot. Roasting these cuts for the time required to cook the any meat present on the spinal column is just a waste of good venison. If a roasted whole piece is desired, a leg or shoulder is a much better cut but it should be moist heat.-Dick

[Mjx]

If your piece is as described you should have the back straps and tenderloins included. If they are not present, then someone has just given you the spinal column which is not of any use and usually thrown away except for possibly the ribs if attached.

The back straps and tenderloin are the best cuts and are usually seared and oven finished to rare, and served hot. Roasting these cuts for the time required to cook the any meat present on the spinal column is just a waste of good venison. If a roasted whole piece is desired, a leg or shoulder is a much better cut but it should be moist heat.-Dick

Thanks budrichard! And yes, the backstraps and tenderloins are there, along with the ribs, and you've confirmd my initial sense that that the various cuts present would be best if prepared separately. It was just that I'd been urged to take a 'one big roast' approach by the hunter who brought down the deer, and I figured that perhaps my lack of experience with cooking nearly-whole, large mammals might mean I was ignorantly overlooking a potential winner.

Is there any good reason to leave the spinal column attached? It doesn't seem as though it would add much, but as I said, it isn't something I've ever thought to try before (I've only worked with boneless cuts of venison, up to now). I'm also trying to figure out what to do with the ribs, since the animal was a really small one, and the layer of meat is very thin.

Given the small amount of meat available, and the fact that this is supposed to serve six, I'll probably go with my initial idea of searing the meat, then taking the en croute + bacon route.

I saw this yesterday on Bizarre Foods. They stuffed it with offal, butter and bacon and placed it wrapped in foil on a fire pit and covered the whole thing. I assume for hours.

Think I'll pass on this approach! The ground here in Denmark is already frozen hard enough to require a jackhammer to break the surface!

Edited December 6, 2010 by Mjx (log)

[budrichard]

"Is there any good reason to leave the spinal column attached?"

None, maybe the hunter did not have much experience butchering? The tenderloin is usually removed after gutting as it can easily be reached from the interior of the animal. The back straps after skinning. Ribs from a small animal are probably useless.

Wisconsin now has CWD spreading through the deer heard so most animals are now deboned after skinning without breaking through the spinal column or other bones. I always have my heads analyzed for Prions. The summary is that we only take boneless cuts now from venison. So no haunches or shoulders on the fire!

Your thoughts about bacon and en croute are spot on!-Dick

[sjemac]

If you were to take the ribcage and saw off the lower half (sternum end)of each side, the torso would then be able to stand up (using the ribs as the "legs") in a large roasting pan. You could then sear it under high heat for a few minutes before turning down the heat and covering with foil to finish cooking. When the backstraps got done to the point that you desire, fillet them off and return the remainder to the oven to go low and slow until almost breaking down. Lay the backstraps back on to bring up the temp again and the serve the whole beast for a "WOW" presentation.

All kinds of aromatic herb and veggies could go under the archway created by the deer ribs and spine.

If in Denmark, I assume we are talking about a roe deer?

Edited December 6, 2010 by sjemac (log)

[sjemac]

"Is there any good reason to leave the spinal column attached?"

None, maybe the hunter did not have much experience butchering? The tenderloin is usually removed after gutting as it can easily be reached from the interior of the animal. The back straps after skinning. Ribs from a small animal are probably useless.

Wisconsin now has CWD spreading through the deer heard so most animals are now deboned after skinning without breaking through the spinal column or other bones. I always have my heads analyzed for Prions. The summary is that we only take boneless cuts now from venison. So no haunches or shoulders on the fire!

Your thoughts about bacon and en croute are spot on!-Dick

I'm going to disagree to a certain extent. In an area like yours with CWD only boneless cuts should be used. However, in areas where CWD is not present the bones of young deer can add more flavor to the meat. I typically butcher one of my young (as in 6-7 months old)deer with the spinal bones in for saddle of venison or loin racks. Makes for a nice presentation and the bones provide a richness in young deer. In older deer that richness can be construed as "gaminess" and for that reason I always bone out the older bucks and does.

[ScottyBoy]

+1 on breaking it down. Definite diference in cooking times between the muscles. Have you thought of roasting the bones for sauce? I think roasting the loins whole will be sufficient for the "wow" factor. Grinding the flaps, butterflying the loin and stuffing? Too bad you can't make a trial run. I think removing a couple variables will lead to a greater chance of a awesome piece of cooked game, especially for a special occasion.

I'm a naive cook from California, could someone fill me in on CWD?

[sjemac]

I'm a naive cook from California, could someone fill me in on CWD?

Chronic Wasting Disease: the deer equivalent of Mad Cow. No evidence thus far that it can transfer to humans but all jurisdictions are playing it safe.

Here in Alberta, they've designated a 100 km buffer zone alongside the neighboring eastern province and intend to kill every single deer in that zone to keep the disease from spreading to our herds. If that sounds impossible, digest the fact that Alberta is completely rat free and is the only place in continental North America that can make that claim. We actually have an official "rat patrol" that cruises the borders and kills every rat they find sign of. Rats are a lot smaller and furtive than deer be.

[ScottyBoy]

Yikes!

[Mjx]

Thanks for getting back to me! This is is occupying my mind to the point that I've begun dreaming about it, so I really appreciate feedback.

. . . .

Wisconsin now has CWD spreading through the deer heard so most animals are now deboned after skinning without breaking through the spinal column or other bones.

budrichard, thanks for the heads-up on the CWD, I clean forgot about that, and looked into it. Apparently, CWD has not been detected in roe deer populations in Northern Europe. Yet. Still, this adds a bit more weight to my going for an off-the bone preparation.

If you were to take the ribcage and saw off the lower half (sternum end)of each side, the torso would then be able to stand up (using the ribs as the "legs") in a large roasting pan. You could then sear it under high heat for a few minutes before turning down the heat and covering with foil to finish cooking. When the backstraps got done to the point that you desire, fillet them off and return the remainder to the oven to go low and slow until almost breaking down. Lay the backstraps back on to bring up the temp again and the serve the whole beast for a "WOW" presentation.

All kinds of aromatic herb and veggies could go under the archway created by the deer ribs and spine.

If in Denmark, I assume we are talking about a roe deer?

Yes, it's a roe deer (which explains its size), the only species that I've seen served here. That presentation would be gorgeous, and roasting the vegetables with the meat would give them an incredible flavour, but I don't think I could pull it off with such a small animal; the meat is so thin that it would be really difficult to not over-roast unless it was protected from direct heat.

. . . . Have you thought of roasting the bones for sauce? I think roasting the loins whole will be sufficient for the "wow" factor. Grinding the flaps, butterflying the loin and stuffing? . . . .

This also sounds delicious! Roe deer loins are generally small (on this one, probably tiny), so I wouldn't be able to butterfly them properly, and I can't quite make out what the deal is with the flaps, either (the venison is being held in someone else's deep freeze, and when I looked at it the other day, I couldn't make out the details through the plastic). There doesn't seem to be much flap meat, but what you describe has me thinking that if I did grind the flaps, then combined that with chestnuts and bacon, it could be served as a side dish.

[ScottyBoy]

Oh dang! Chestnuts and bacon, brilliant! You have a kitchen Aid attachment or similar for sausages? Yum.

I recently started adding pomegranate seeds to gamey sausages, adds a little zing. Nuts, bacon and some pop from pom seeds?

[budrichard]

With flaps, tenderloin, backstraps, something along the lines of a boneless saddle may be just the thing. Pepin has the technique in a couple of his books which involves not only the construction but the correct method of cooking. I have done it with a saddle of lamb many times. Good luck!-Dick

[Shelby]

Get those tenderloins out and eat them! I don't know how you are storing this, but those will always dry out very quickly. In fact, after we gut and hang our deer, we immediately extract the t-loins, clean them up, butterfly or cut into at least 1 1/2 inch disks--I prefer much thicker, marinate in a bit of garlic, soy and black pepper, and saute in butter on med high heat until just done. Venison is best rare, imo.

[Mjx]

Oh dang! Chestnuts and bacon, brilliant! You have a kitchen Aid attachment or similar for sausages? Yum.

I recently started adding pomegranate seeds to gamey sausages, adds a little zing. Nuts, bacon and some pop from pom seeds?

It's an excellent idea, although I haven't had much luck with pomegranates in Denmark; about 4 out of five are all seed, with a thin, pallid veil of 'flesh' on them, not the juicy, ruby-red loveliness I'm used to. Still, if I get half a dozen or so, I might get lucky..? Certainly seems worth the trouble. No sausage maker, however; our kitchen has almost no mechanical appliances, apart from the hand-held mixer and the scale, so there's going to be a lot of hand mincing involved (we blew the kitchen budget on the Gaggenau oven and stovetop)

With flaps, tenderloin, backstraps, something along the lines of a boneless saddle may be just the thing. Pepin has the technique in a couple of his books which involves not only the construction but the correct method of cooking. I have done it with a saddle of lamb many times. Good luck!-Dick

Thanks for mentioning a specific cookbook author who's actually trusted! I was wondering about the reliability of some of the recipes I was browsing. I'm actually in NYC for a few days, so I can browse Barnes and Noble's cookbook section to my heart's content.

Get those tenderloins out and eat them! I don't know how you are storing this, but those will always dry out very quickly. In fact, after we gut and hang our deer, we immediately extract the t-loins, clean them up, butterfly or cut into at least 1 1/2 inch disks--I prefer much thicker, marinate in a bit of garlic, soy and black pepper, and saute in butter on med high heat until just done. Venison is best rare, imo.

The carcass is frozen like a rock at -15C at my boyfriend's parents' place! I'm actually rather nervous about the effect the freezing may have had on the meat, and how it will affect the final results. I agree, rare is the way to go... unless the meat has been made mushy by the freezing. Don't quite know what I'll do, then.

[budrichard]

I wouldn't worry about the freezing affecting the venison unless it had been refrozen.-Dick

[sjemac]

Freezing should have no effect in the short term. In fact I just defrosted and cooked a moose loin that was vac packed in 2008 and it was just as good as the day I packed it. Med rare to rare is still the way to go.

In my house if you want a steak of any kind well done -- you'd better order out for it.

[Mjx]

I wouldn't worry about the freezing affecting the venison unless it had been refrozen.-Dick

Freezing should have no effect in the short term. In fact I just defrosted and cooked a moose loin that was vac packed in 2008 and it was just as good as the day I packed it. Med rare to rare is still the way to go.

In my house if you want a steak of any kind well done -- you'd better order out for it.

:smile: Thanks guys, this was a major worry of mine... I've had several dreams in which I was racking my brains, trying to figure out what to do with a bunch of freezer-burned venison, and came up with various freakish (from a waking perspective) solutions.

[Shelby]

It won't be mushy, but venison does freezer burn rather quickly. When we package our deer, I saran wrap it before putting it in freezer paper and we always try to eat it within a year. You will be fine though. Believe me, I've had many a dealing with freezer burnt venison and the only thing to do is cut off the bad part.

[Mjx]

It won't be mushy, but venison does freezer burn rather quickly. When we package our deer, I saran wrap it before putting it in freezer paper and we always try to eat it within a year. You will be fine though. Believe me, I've had many a dealing with freezer burnt venison and the only thing to do is cut off the bad part.

I'm going to have to hope for the best... there is so little meat, there isn't really anything to cut off!

[Mjx]

I want to thank everyone who offered venison advice; the results I got were good enough that the biggest opponent of my preference for cutting the meat off the bone to cook separately asked me for the recipe I used.

I do have one question, however: Does anyone know the butcher's term for the two little strips of meat, positioned at either side of the interior aspect of the neck vertebrae, like two tiny tenderloins? People seem slightly nauseated when I use anatomical terms, and I figure these must have a culinary-use name, too.

[judiu]

I want to thank everyone who offered venison advice; the results I got were good enough that the biggest opponent of my preference for cutting the meat off the bone to cook separately asked me for the recipe I used.

I do have one question, however: Does anyone know the butcher's term for the two little strips of meat, positioned at either side of the interior aspect of the neck vertebrae, like two tiny tenderloins? People seem slightly nauseated when I use anatomical terms, and I figure these must have a culinary-use name, too.

Nothing like an 'official' name, but to call them 'venison fingers' shouldn't be too hard a sell... ;-)

[Genkinaonna]

Someone on here has to have "Venison Fingers" as their screen name...if not, I'm officially changing mine!

[Shelby]

That is the tenderloin that I told you to cut out immediately and eat. It's the best part of the deer

[JimmyD]

Do you know what you have? At that size, is it muntjac?

You can roast it. It likes to be bound in bacon to keep it moist; baste regularly (do you have a rotissary it will fit on?); it loves rosemary and like all of us it'll always benefit from a generous amount of red wine. You can also finish with a honey glaze, but apricot or cherry are good too.

Keep it simple and enjoy!