Battle of the refrigerator-freezer designs

[kalypso]

My mother is remodeling her house, starting with the kitchen. She's not exactly a spring chicken so a lot of the leg work has fallen to me. I've purchased a huge amount of commercial kitchen equipment for work, so figuring out what she needs for most of the kitchen isn't too terribly difficult. However,...

My go to refrigerator (Traulsen) for work purposes isn't a viable option for home use. So I'm looking for recommendations for good, reliable refrigerators. My mother's preference is for a side-by-side with somewhere between 21-25 cu. ft. She does not want a unit with the freezer on top, but has expressed a little bit of interest in the new units with the freezer on the bottom and side-by-side doors on top.

We're also interested in comments about counter-depth vs. standard depth

My mother has pretty much ruled out GE. My sister remodeled her house - well actually, she rebuilt it - and put a GE Monogram fridge in her kitchen. She and her family absolutely DETEST it due to the lack of overall storage in it.

Traulsen is now owned by Hobart, which also owns Kitchenaid. We've looked at the KA side-by-sides and they are on the short list, so any specific info on their durability and service would also be greatly appreciated.

Thanks.

[Joe Blowe]

Most of what I've read on side-by-sides (like here and over here) makes me think I'd never want one in my kitchen! There are some fans, but they appear to be few and far between.

We're also in the market for a new fridge, and I've done a bit of research. A lot of people seem to be in love with their new CDFDs (counter depth french doors ), but I've read more than a few complaints about the latch mechanism failing prematurely on some of the french door designs.

Haven't seen too many bad mentions of counter depth. If you don't need the storage, you're not gonna miss that extra bit of fridge jutting into the room.

Give the bottom mount, standard door config a good look before buying...

[Jaymes]

I absolutely love my side-by-side and would never have anything else, unless I could afford a large separate fridge right by a large separate freezer.

And everybody else I know that has them likes them as well.

HOWEVER....

That only goes for the BIG ones. The small ones are not only worthless, they're frustrating and annoying.

But I've owned lots of refrigerators during my decades of life, and since I've moved 38 times, I've also had lots of different styles in various rental homes and apartments.

I did have a 'freezer on the bottom,' and boy did I hate that. Digging around down there was extremely unpleasant. Especially since the entire time I was digging around down in that bottom freezer drawer, I knew that at that exact same moment, there were people with side-by-sides just opening the door and retrieving whatever they wanted in a flash.

And my co-madre (a wonderful Spanish word that means co-mother; she's the mother of my daughter's husband, so we're both mothers-in-law of the same couple) has a bottom freezer and she doesn't like it either.

But again. I re-emphasize: This side-by-side love affair only applies to the big ones. The small ones are terrible. Worse than terrible. And the problem is more than just how many cubic feet of freezer space you have. The WIDTH of the freezer is important. In the smaller ones, you can't even get an average-sized dinner plate to lie flat in them, never mind trying to make an icebox pie. The one that I have now (and that everyone in my family has) is 36" across, with ice to the door. As far as I'm concerned the main gripes I've heard come from people whose only experience is with the small ones.

And it's ridiculous to say that there's no freezer space. I can, and have gotten a side of beef in there. And several turkeys to boot.

I would suggest you discount opinions on LARGE side-by-sides that come from folks that only have had experience with the SMALL ones.

They're light years apart.

Saying that they're not so energy efficient as some other models is valid criticism. But saying that "all side-by-sides have no freezer space" is not.

Edited June 16, 2007 by Jaymes (log)

[baroness]

In the size you want (21-25 cubic feet), a side by side will be highly annoying, due to the narrowness of BOTH the freezer and refrigerator. Take a stroll through Lowe's or the like and take a look at the lack of useable space.

BTW, most KitchenAide is made by Whirlpool, so you may save some money by looking at the Whirlpool models. I would avoid GE at ALL costs.

I would also suggest that you consult Consumer Reports and perhaps http://ths.gardenweb.com/forums/appl/ - though, of course, the latter is less 'scientific'/impartial.

[Stevarino]

I have a 25 Cubic Ft. side by side Fridge in my home, and I absolutely hate it!!! I can't believe they actually pay people that come up with such CRAP! It came with the house.

One improvement that I wish they'd consider, is to make the shelving replacement kits, like a drawer, so you can get to stuff that's buried in the back without having to empty it! Of course, I'm not an engineer, so what do I know?

[Pat Churchill]

In my own kitchen, when I redesigned it, I installed a separate refrigerator and matching freezer, side by side. Plenty of room in each and they are brilliant. Same height, width, depth etc.

We moved to Australia two years ago, renting out our NZ house. (sob - I miss my kitchen...)

In our first rental property we had a side by side arrangement with an icemaker and cold water dispenser. Pretty good. The Spouse loved the ice and water dispenser. I thought the (filtered) water tasted inferior to the tap water though the ice was handy for chilling down par-boiled vegetables to refresh them etc. Always heaps of ice when required.

Our current rental property had no fridge but a large recess for one so we bought a pretty huge fridge with a separate freezer at the bottom. We'd had a similar model before in another house we'd owned during an interim job. It was fine. I like the fridge at the bottom rather than the top because I access it less frequently. However, the two sons have moved back home for a while and while the freezer section is OK for two of us, it's not really enough for four. But I have learned to be more disciplined, which isn't a bad thing. But sometimes when I see a bargain, I know I don;t have the freezer space.

My choice is for the separate standalone fridge and freezer. I liked the capacity of the fridge - heaps of room for fruit and vegetables, all the stuff that says "refrigerate after opening", hibernating sourdough starters, plus plenty of space for wine bottles, verjuice, milk, water, beer, mixers, buttermilk and other 'essentials'.

Don't ever buy a dive-in freezer! My mother had one and had stuff down in the bottom that was a relic of the Ice Age - "Stewed plums 1976", "steak 1984". I gave her my old upright freezer when I redesigned kitchen and she still stored it like a museum. Thank goodness there was a power failure and the insurance company paid out on her antique food.

Fortunately my freezer has a high turnover rate, forced on me by its capacity. I rarely dump stuff except for refugees from the bbq season that miss the grill.

In writing this, I guess I have come to realise a week's worth of meat is about right for my current freezer needs. I just need to make space for the odd spare loaf of bread - though our mini-mart is only about 200 metres down the road and I could use the exercise.

Oh... thank God I haven't had to move 38 times like Jaymes!!!! My biggest problem in various relocations has been my very large cookbook collection. It comes a close second to my family.

[SaltySnack]

I have a counter depth side-by-side refrigerator in my house. At least I think I do. I am not there right now. The only thing I regret about it is that it is next to a wall and I cannot open the freezer door completely so it makes it hard to open things completely. Side-by-side was pretty much a necessity because of the layout.

I like that everything is on shelves. There's none of this digging between things adn underneath things to find something. I can put a dinner plate in it; however, i cannot put a sheet pan in it. Something I can do in a top mounted freezer. I don't like the top mounted freezer in the place I am staying in now because everything is piled on top of each other.

Something to think about. Just how much is your mother going to be freezing? Is she really going to be keeping the family Thanksgiving turkey. Your in the business, is that your job every year? or your sisters? and she's never going to have do that? So it doesn't really matter that she doesn't need the space for that?

If she's just keeping some ground meat, some ice cream, some tupperware freezer containers of food that you've made her for some quick and easy meals, does she really need a lot of space?

Or is she one of those depression era generation and buys lots of meat on sale?

I keep virtually nothing in my freezer. And so do not regret the lack of space for larger items, but you will always fine plenty of frozen containers of soup in there.

[Marmish]

I have a big Kitchenaid side by side. I like the pull out baskets in the freezer, and don't have any lack of space in there. The shelves in the fridge pull out, which is handy sometimes, and they are infinitely adjustable. The ice maker is notoriously fickle, though, and we are currently not on speaking terms. One day it will decide to make ice again and all will be right in the kitchen. It's more moody than I am.

[Jaymes]

In my own kitchen, when I redesigned it,  I installed a separate refrigerator and matching freezer, side by side. Plenty of room in each and they are brilliant. Same height, width, depth etc.

This would be my dream kitchen. Maybe someday....

[Jaymes]

I have a 25 Cubic Ft. side by side Fridge in my home, and I absolutely hate it!!! I can't believe they actually pay people that come up with such CRAP! It came with the house.  

There are few appliances that engender this sort of hate. In fact, that small side-by-side is the only one I've ever heard of. And believe me, I feel your pain.

[KitchenMom]

I remodelled my kitchen a year and a half ago and put in a Kitchenaid side by side with water and ice in the door. I think it is 25 cf, but I'm not completely sure. Anyway, it works very well for our family of four. I find there is plenty of space in both the fridge and freezer, and we keep a lot of food around most of the time. The pull out baskets in the freezer are great, as is all the storage on the door in the fridge side. The large door bins also meen the shelves are not quite so deep, though stuff does get lost back there sometimes. I also love the conenience of water and ice on the door. The water is filtered, which is nice. As often as my kids get drinks, it saves on opening the doors so often, and is easy for them to do themselves.

As to counter-depth v. full depth, I think if storage isn't an issue, counter-depth is great. It looks nice, and stuff doesn't get lost as easily in the back. We have full-depth, but built the cabinetry around it so it doesn't jut out and looks built in. If your mom does an ordinary amount of cooking, and is in a small household, I would think the counter-depth would have plenty of space.

As for reliability, I have had the KA for about a year and a half with no problems. The icemaker did malfunction within the first couple of months, but it was covered under warranty and the new one has been fine. We got our appliances through a local store that does all its own service, so I can't comment on service other than to say that if you have a similar store, it is such a pleasure compared with my previous service experiences.

[kalypso]

Thanks for all the comments. We made another trip to the appliance showroom today that was actually rather productive.

No matter which brand she buys it will be standard depth. It doesn't matter how much she cooks or doesn't cook, she just doesn't like the shallow units. Most everything has pull out shelves on some kind of glide rack that even she can manage. She was able to eliminate the bottom mounted freezer units because bending over to sift through freezer baskets isn't her thing. Plus as a product of the depression and avid Costco shopper her freezer (and pantry for that matter) are well stocked. So side-by-side it is.

She's narrowed it down to a Kitchenaid or a Frigidaire and I have more than a sneaking suspicion she'll go with the Frigidaire. Frigidaire is running a package special until the end of the month; for every appliance purchased, they'll rebate $100 up to $500. My mother needs a slide in range, microwave hood, the fridge and a dishwasher. That's a $400 rebate + her contractor's discount. What will probably seal the deal is that her 40 year old Frigidaire clothes dryer is just about to bite the dust, so she can get that too and bump the rebate up to $500. Remember Depression-era children do not spend their money willingly nor friviously. They are frugal to a fault and big fans of coupons and rebates.

Frigidaire is built by Electrolux. We have a 40 year old Electrolux can vac that has outlasted at least 5 other vacuum cleaners and shows no signs of wearing out. I've heard some pretty good things about Electrolux appliances, let's hope their American unit is just as good.

Edited June 17, 2007 by kalypso (log)

[KitchenMom]

This is just one opinion, but this house had a two-year-old frigidaire dw when we moved in two and a half years ago. It was a piece of crap. It didn't clean well and was a pain to load (and this was compared to our builder's grade kenmore in our previous house). The new KA dw we put in is a thousand times better. I generally hear good things about frigidaire ranges, but not their dishwashers.

[baroness]

This is just one opinion, but this house had a two-year-old frigidaire dw when we moved in two and a half years ago.  It was a piece of crap.  It didn't clean well and was a pain to load (and this was compared to our builder's grade kenmore in our previous house).  The new KA dw we put in is a thousand times better.  I generally hear good things about frigidaire ranges, but not their dishwashers.

←

This is a very valid point - manufacturers can be great at ranges, or washers, and lousy at refrigerators and dishwashers. Having done a lot of appliance shopping in the last few years - and being very happy with my older Whirlpool dw, refrigerator, and new laundry machines, I was disposed to buy a Whirlpool range. BUT, after a lot of research and shopping, I bought a Bosch range and am very happy!

I realize rebates can be tempting, and everything 'matches', brandwise. But I wouldn't do it. (pssssst! look at the repair history - and the Consumer Reports recent ratings for Frigidaire refrigerators. You can get online access to CR for a very reasonable price; I've saved my subscription $ many times over.)

BTW, there are TWO Electrolux companies that both make vacuums; I don't know which one makes refrigerators.

Happy decision making....

[kalypso]

This is just one opinion, but this house had a two-year-old frigidaire dw when we moved in two and a half years ago.  It was a piece of crap.  It didn't clean well and was a pain to load (and this was compared to our builder's grade kenmore in our previous house).  The new KA dw we put in is a thousand times better.  I generally hear good things about frigidaire ranges, but not their dishwashers.

←

I realize rebates can be tempting, and everything 'matches', brandwise. But I wouldn't do it. (pssssst! look at the repair history - and the Consumer Reports recent ratings for Frigidaire refrigerators. You can get online access to CR for a very reasonable price; I've saved my subscription $ many times over.)

Happy decision making....

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Ladies, thank you both for your posts. Consumer Reports is my next stop this morning before I have to cart my mom over to Home Depot to look at tile and flooring and then over to a couple of other flooring stores.

Unfortunately, after all these years with my mother, I've learned that the $$$ really does talk and is a bottom line factor with her. Yesterday while we were waiting for the technician that was helping us to get the pricing and spec sheets pulled together, I mentioned to my mom that just because it was on sale or had a rebated didn't mean it was going to be the best choice. Over the course of my career I've probably purchased somewhere around $5 million in commercial kitchen equipment and there are some brands I won't touch with the perverbial 10' pole because they have such a poor track record. I tried to explain to her that she needed to consider durability, reliability, ease of repair and frequency of repair when making her purchase. If you're always spending money to fix or repair a piece of equipment, you're adding to the actual cost of the unit. Clearly, she hadn't thought about that. The challenge here for me now is to try and make her understand why spending a little more up front on her purchases may actually be the more economically sound decision over time.

[LindaK]

She was able to eliminate the bottom mounted freezer units because bending over to sift through freezer baskets isn't her thing.  Plus as a product of the depression and avid Costco shopper her freezer (and pantry for that matter) are well stocked.

This certainly makes sense for your mom and others with the same shopping preferences. Me, when I bought a new fridge a couple of years ago, I gratefully went for the bottom freezer and will never go back, if given the choice. I was tired of bending over to search thru the vegetable bins, while the freezer at top held little else but ice cubes. I''m much happier now that the circumstances are reversed.

As for the side-by-side debate, I would also add that it depends on how you use your refrigerator. If just for storage, it probably doesn't matter. But I like having the wide shelves for chilling full sheets of pastry or cookie dough between baking. When I'm at a friends' homes with the narrow side by side, it's clear that would be impossible.

[Jaymes]

As for the side-by-side debate, I would also add that it depends on how you use your refrigerator. If just for storage, it probably doesn't matter.  But I like having the wide shelves for chilling full sheets of pastry or cookie dough between baking. 

Again, it all depends upon what size side-by-side you're talking about. I don't use my fridge "just for storage." I also chill sheets of pastry and cookie dough.

Your sheet pans obviously may be larger than mine. And your friends' fridge may be narrower.

But my pans are 18" x 13" and I have no trouble at all getting them in the fridge, even the wide way. And the freezer, the narrow way.

I'd just strongly suggest to anyone considering a side-by-side to get the pans you're going to use the most often, and measure to see if they fit, before you dismiss out of hand the option of a side-by-side.

Especially if you're older and your knees or back hurt when you bend over. You can easily arrange everything you use frequently in the freezer, and everything you use frequently in the fridge, right at eye level.

[kalypso]

Especially if you're older and your knees or back hurt when you bend over.  You can easily arrange everything you use frequently in the freezer, and everything you use frequently in the fridge, right at eye level.

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Jaymes has a point, life kind of takes a toll on the body over time and when you reach a certain point bending, stooping and squatting to get stuff out of the fridge looses it's appeal.

My mother's house was originally a model home and the cabinets were built in place. As a result, over the 40 years she's lived in this house, we've discovered that many walls, doors and other spaces aren't a standard size. Let's just say that finding replacement appliances has always been an adventure in this house. The current space for a refrigerator is smaller than the standard 36". The side-by-side she currently has was the only one my folks could find 12 years ago that fit the space; it helps that it's a standard depth unit. The freezer space is a bit narrow, but the refrigeration space is not. I mostly use half sheet pans which are a breeze to get into either side of her current unit, tho' it can be tricky in the freezer if she's been to Costco.

However, everything is probably moot now. This afternoon we went looking at flooring and since the kitchen remodel is only the first step in a whole house renno, we looked at flooring options with an eye towards the rest of the house. We found flooring that is beautiful, would look amazing in most of the house and fits in the budget. The reality actually hit us both. We'll get a heck of a lot bigger return on the investment for good flooring than we will for any appliance we put in the kitchen. I'm pretty sure she's leaning towards going for the best all-round package deal on appliances rather than higher end so that she can sink the savings into things that will enhance the resale value of the house, like flooring, cabinets, paint and lighting. Strangely, I'm actually okay with that.

[Marlene]

I'll put in another vote for the 25 cu ft KA. I had one in my old house and loved it. When we moved here, there was a side by side Fridgidare that was only 5 years old but conked out about 2 months after we moved in, (as did the fridgidare washer and dryer). I bought a new KA and all has been well in my kitchen ever since. I also like the fact that the ice bucket is in the door and is removable. Space is not an issue in it and I can get a lot of stuff in it.

[RobertCollins]

Six years ago i put in separate frig and freezer. They were Sub Zero. What an excellent name, as would be sub standard ...

Needless to say I'm not happy. Every couple months the frig freezes up and down on my hands and knee to take it apart and use the heat gun to unfreeze the evaporator and of course that will only happen when you have guests arriving in a couple hours.

If you do a gallon of stock or soup etc and put it in the reefer you will not get it back to 36 degrees for at least a day.

Big mistake but one bright side is that the double drawer under counter freezer is a delight except for the annual freeze-up and let every thing defrost.

Lastly, make sure the door opens wide enough to get that 1/2 sheet or what ever in. While the shelf is large enough our door will not open wide enough.

Edited June 18, 2007 by RobertCollins (log)

[robyn]

Our 13 year old Kitchenaid refrigerator has apparently bit the dust. The refrigerator part was somewhat warm this morning - which led to one set of possible diagnoses based on some internet reading. This evening - the freezer started to warm up too - which leads me to believe that the compressor is dying. Doesn't make much sense to make such an expensive repair on an appliance this old. I will check with the repair people tomorrow - but I am not optimistic.

I only have several non-negotiable requirements for a new refrigerator. It must be white (our kitchen is "white on white"). It must be a 35-36" wide model to fit into the existing space. It must be available for fast delivery. And it must be a brand that is relatively common (it's hard enough to get common brand appliances repaired where I live - and I have no desire to wait 2 weeks for parts for more exotic usually higher end appliances and then find that the repair person doesn't have a clue how to fix the thing).

That said - we made the rounds of all the usual suspect big box stores today - and the model I think I liked the best was the 25 foot or so cubic foot LG with the ice in the door and the 2 freezer drawers on the bottom (which I can get in a couple of days from Home Depot). I don't know beans about LG - it didn't exist when I last bought a major appliance. Nor do I know about the advantages/disadvantages of the "French" freezer drawers as opposed to the older side-by-side models (because the former didn't exist when I bought my last refrigerator).

The freezer drawers seem useful - but more useful when there are two. About the main disadvantage I saw in almost every model I looked at were the crispers weren't very tall - not tall enough to hold - for example - a cabbage. The manufacturers seemed to pay more attention to how many pizzas you could store conveniently than to fresh food storage. But I guess that is how most people eat these days. And I am not sure how well an "in the door" icemaker works when it is stuck in the refrigerator compartment or refrigerator door - as opposed to the freezer. Or how convenient a refrigerator without an "ice in the door" feature is (haven't had one of those for maybe 20 years or more).

Anyway - if you've bought a refrigerator in the last couple of years - or have been exploring to buy a new one - or even just "window shopping" - I'd be glad to hear what you have to say pro and con. FWIW - I am a pretty decent home cook and cook a lot from scratch. Any and all opinions are welcome. Thanks. Robyn

[baroness]

Not that I frequently agree with their choices, but you may want to look at Consumer Reports (you can buy online access for as little as a month, last I checked). Their reliability ratings can be interesting.

Freezer drawers are a good thing IF there are at least 2 of them; otherwise it's a backbreaker to find anything in the deeper ones. My Fisher & Paykel has 3 drawers -- which I dearly love -- but you wanted a common brand. Good luck in your quest!

[Dave the Cook]

Is this the one you're thinking about, Robyn?

Interesting design.

[slschnur]

Two weeks ago we bought a Sears Kenmore Elite (can't remember model #) 25 cubic foot French-door refrigerator & are very pleased with it. It doesn't have exterior water & ice because we had problems with the ice-maker tubing on our previous 13-year-old GE fridge. Access to everything is much easier than with the old GE (things would get pushed back in the back to turn green between cleanings) & it's easy to see everything, even in the chest-type freezer. You're right about the vegetable bins - they are shallower, but so far that hasn't presented any problems. It's also very energy-efficient. To our surprise, we found that there are actually only 2-3 refrigerator manufacturers & that our Sears model is actually made by LG. I looked at all of the different models available at Sears (Kitchen Aid, LG, Kenmore, Amana, Samsung & probably a couple I've forgotten) & found very few differences in them. The Kenmore also has pull-out shelves so that I can easily get to all the stuff that's in the back. After 2+ weeks, I'm still delighted with it. Of course, I still have the old GE in the basement, so there's plenty of space.

[blue_dolphin]

I'm also curious about LG.

I've been looking at this one which also has the 2 freezer drawers. I want a counter/cabinet depth model.

I bought my current fridge 27 years ago. I've been waiting for it to die but I guess I've gotten my money's worth. Its longevity's probably due to the simple design - no icemaker, no water dispenser, etc.