Chocolate Chantilly

[GNV//PDX]

A few days ago I was thumbing though my copy of Heston Blumenthal's fat duck cookbook and ran across a mention of Hervé This's Chocolate Chantilly that I guess Blumenthal subsequently used in his restaurant. I searched the web and found a formula for it, seemingly much easier to make that I thought, as it requiered no speacial chemicals, compounds, or equipment. Infact it only called for a bit of chocolate and water.

200 ml water

225 gr quality bittersweet chocolate (a scant 8 oz), chopped coarsely

Place the water and chocolate into a small heavy saucepan over medium heat to melt. Stir the chocolate in the pan until completely melted.

Have ready two bowls, one that will sit inside the other. Into the bigger bowl, put some ice and a little water, and place in it the smaller bowl. Pour the melted chocolate into the smaller bowl and whisk over ice - the mixture will gradually thicken and take on the appearance of whipped cream, at which point it is ready to serve.

I used a hand-held electric mixer with a whisk attachment and it took 3 minutes.Be careful not to over whip it, but if you do simply put it back into the pan and start again.

I followed this exactly save the use of the stick blender w wisk attachment ( i just wisked by hand. I've made a bit of mayonaise/hollendaise in the past) which man have been my issue.

The chocolate would whip up to beautiful soft peaks and then when coaxed any stiffer, it would completly break down, back to its totally slack state, but couldnt be whipped up again till brought back up to the total melt point.

I was wondering if anyone has had better luck with this and also if anyone knew a bit more about the molecular basis of this technique.

Really all I know about chocolate and water, is when i've worked with chocolate, esp. tempering chocolate by hand, getting water even close to your chocolate is bad news, as even a drop of water thickens the chocolate and makes it impossible to temper, so obviously this technique uses that reaction to its benifit.

Is it the incorporation of air with wisking? the aggitation? the heat to cool?

Edited April 14, 2010 by GNV//PDX (log)

[paulraphael]

I've played with this a bit ... it's a cool concept, but by itself I haven't been thrilled with the texture or stability. The versions I've been making have some cream added for ... creaminess. I've also been stabilizing it with gelatin and xanthan.

[mkayahara]

My understanding of the technique is that it simply banks on cocoa butter crystallization: as you cool the chocolate in the ice bath, it promotes crystallization (just as butterfat crystallizes in whipping cream when it's chilled). But because you're whisking at the same time, you trap air bubbles between the crystals, which gives it its light texture. I've been meaning to try this for a while, but somehow have never gotten around to it. In particular, I think it'd be fun to use pure cocoa butter to get the same effect but with a flavour base other than chocolate. I don't know if it'd work, though.

[GNV//PDX]

paulraphael, Im going to avoid using the cream so that it dosnt coat the palate, thus leaving only a clean, intense chocolate flavor and a preferable mouth feel (making a regular chantilly and adding cocoa powder would obviously be easier), although stabalizing w getatin, agar, xanthan, etc might be the only way to hold its peak and thus leaving me able to pipe the finished product...i'm gonna play around with that. thanks mkayahara for the insight into the molecular process, i'm going to try to use a stick blender to whip and incorperate a greater amount of air, quicker, thus hopefully yeilding a lighter product. Playing with the cocoa butter is interesting...I wonder what adding a bit of cocoa butter to the melted chocolate/water would do? maybe create a stronger emmulsion between the fat/water=a more stable product???

If I was to try and stabilize it, when yould I add the stabilizer?

[mkayahara]

I wonder what adding a bit of cocoa butter to the melted chocolate/water would do? maybe create a stronger emmulsion between the fat/water=a more stable product???

Well, you wouldn't need to add more cocoa butter for that effect; you could just lower the proportion of water to chocolate. Pure cocoa butter is expensive.

I just checked the original article in Molecular Gastronomy (translated by M.B. Debevoise), and he makes a few suggestions, including using orange juice or blackcurrant puree in place of the water. More crucially, he suggests using gelatin to stabilize (dissolving it in the water before adding the chocolate), rather than relying exclusively on the lecithin already present in the chocolate. Strangely, he omits this step in the recipe itself, so I'm not sure how much gelatin you'd need.

He also suggests the following:

If your chocolate doesn't contain enough fat, melt the mixture again, add some more chocolate, and then whisk it again. If the mousse is not light enough, melt the mixture again, add some water, and whisk it once more. If you whisk it too much, so that it becomes grainy [...] simply melt the mixture and whisk it again, adding nothing.

Good luck!

Edited April 14, 2010 by mkayahara (log)

[paulraphael]

[quote name='GNV//PDX' date='14 April 2010 - 05:03 PM' timestamp='1271278985' post='1739119'If I was to try and stabilize it, when yould I add the stabilizer?

[GNV//PDX]

Thanks ya'll-we'll see where this goes

[A Patric]

Another thought is that if you know it starts to break down after a certain point, then simply don't push it quite that far. Stop just short and then let the mixture sit a bit, as the cocoa butter should continue to crystallize with time and things should firm up a little. I haven't tried this myself, so this isn't based upon experience, but just on my understanding of cocoa butter crystallization.

Maybe worth a try.

[RichardJones]

I've never tried this but I keep meaning to.

I read a brief explanation once which I found rather good... Cream has an optimum level of fat content to provide the greatest increase in volume when whipping. Too little fat and there is not enough structure, too much fat and the weight is counter-productive. Bau discusses this in Au Coeur des Saveurs. He gives the results of his experiments to find the greatest increase in volume as somewhere in the region of 35% fat (can't remember exactly, sorry).

Effectively with the chocolate chantilly, you are adding water to the chocolate to bring the fat content down to a similar region c.35%. Then you can whip away and achieve a similar effect to whipping cream but with cocoa butter trapping the air rather than butterfat. Or so I read and I am afraid I cannot remember the source.

Hopefully this helps explain why the quantity of water needs to be precise. Too much and you're trying to whip milk; too little and you're trying to whip butter...

R

Edited April 16, 2010 by RichardJones (log)

[pastrygirl]

Along these lines, I've been making mousses this way but in a whipped cream canister charged with no2. I use about 150g chocolate to 120g water and usually add a little sugar or flavor of some sort. Right now I have one infused with fresh ginger.

[Wholemeal Crank]

I just read about this recipe recently, and am very interested to try it, but the version I found here mentions that it can be made a few hours ahead, and I'd like to know if it can be held overnight, for serving at a work event the next day. Anyone ever tried that?

Since there's nothing in it but water and chocolate (at least, not in the most basic version), it shouldn't spoil, but would it get crunchy and crumbly held overnight in the refrigerator?

Edited February 24, 2011 by Wholemeal Crank (log)

[mkayahara]

Personally, I've found that it gets rather firm if held at cold temperatures - too firm to quenelle, for example. It still tastes fine, but does not have the smooth, melting texture of a good mousse. For that matter, when whipping the chocolate over ice water, I found the layer right against the bottom of the bowl (the coldest part) to be too firm. Or maybe I just wasn't whipping it enough...

[Wholemeal Crank]

I was planning to try this with my Kitchenaid and the water bath around the bowl, so I should be able to whip it pretty completely. And at the moment, my heat is off, and the house is about 55 degrees at night, so it might be worth a try at 'room temp' overnight, at least as a small-scale experiment.

[teonzo]

I did the chocolate chantilly various times, so I have a bit of experience.

As someone wrote, this recipe works with the correct ratio between fat (cocoa butter) and water, the ideal ratio is 34%. It's important to check the percentage of cocoa butter in the chocolate you are using before making this recipe: just for example 70% dark chocolate can have different cocoa butter % in it depending on the producers. So it's always important to calculate how much cocoa butter there is on the amount of chocolate you are going to use, in order to use the correct amount of water.

It's not mandatory to whip it just after adding the water to the melted chocolate, putting the bowl in an icy bath. You can simply add the water to the melted chocolate, put the bowl in the refrigerator, and then whip it when it reached the temperature of about 4°C.

When you whip it, it's really important to not compare it with the appearance of whipped cream. If you whip the chocolate chantilly until getting soft peaks, you already whipped it too much. It must still have a bit of liquid appearance, because after some rest the cocoa butter will crystalize more, setting the chocolate chantilly more firm than the grade you got while whipping. If you don't overwhip it, then the result will be smooth; if it's grainy, you whipped it too much. You get the best result using a whip with thin wires.

You can store it in the refrigerator up to 1 week, there are no problems about keeping the texture, once it sets it doesn't fall down.

This chocolate chantilly will give a different result than any other mousses. It will be less airy, because the solid parts of the chocolate are an obstacle to the emulsion to reach the higher volume. So if you want it light and airy, you have better to use a recipe for a mousse with whipped cream or meringue. The best thing about the chocolate chantilly is that it tastes of pure chocolate, while with all other mousses you can taste the other components (cream, meringue, pate-a-bombe, and so on). So the choice between using chocolate chantilly or a chocolate mousse depends on the result you want to get in your dessert.

Starting from this recipe, you can do a lot of variations. You can use flavoured liquids instead of water. You can use pure cocoa butter instead of chocolate, or even other fats (like foie gras). The important rule to remember is the correct ratio between fat and water.

Teo

[Wholemeal Crank]

The best thing about the chocolate chantilly is that it tastes of pure chocolate, while with all other mousses you can taste the other components (cream, meringue, pate-a-bombe, and so on).

Thank you for your very insightful comments. I will keep them with the original recipe. This sounds a lot easier than the ice water bath, and with the chill my kitchen is going to reach this weekend, it should keep pretty well chilled when removed from the fridge for whipping.

Any thoughts on use of the mixer vs hand whipping, aside from the usual caution about how fast a good kitchenaid can take it from almost done to overwhipped?

[teonzo]

Thank you for your very insightful comments. I will keep them with the original recipe. This sounds a lot easier than the ice water bath, and with the chill my kitchen is going to reach this weekend, it should keep pretty well chilled when removed from the fridge for whipping.

Kitchen temperature is not a big problem when you whip the chocolate chantilly after having refrigerated the chocolate/water. It's just like whipping cream, not a long process, so it has not the time to go much higher than 4°C while whipping. I made it last summer while having 35°C in the kitchen, no problems at all.

Any thoughts on use of the mixer vs hand whipping, aside from the usual caution about how fast a good kitchenaid can take it from almost done to overwhipped?

I don't know if this tool is sold in the USA:

http://www.diunamaishop.it/catalogo/schede/13382_1257846998.jpg

in my opinion it's the best for this preparation. The whip has the most thin wires of all the whips I've seen for sale, plus while whipping you can feel the changing thickness of the chocolate chantilly, so after 2-3 times you make it you just feel when it's done.

If you use the kitchen-aid, I'd recommend to not make small quantities (at least 300g of chocolate). And I'd recommend to whip it at medium-low speed, and stop just while the whip starts to leave some light trails on the surface of the chocolate chantilly. Just think about the consistence of whipped cream before reaching soft peaks, while its volume has increased near the top, but the consistence of the cream is still almost liquid.

This recipe has some valuable pros.

For example it's good for people who have dairy intolerances, or people who follow the vegan philosophy. If you happen to have a good amount of these kinds of customers, then the chocolate chantilly is always a good solution, it satisfies almost everybody who can't / don't want to eat something. If any of your desserts are dairy-free, vegan, or whatsoever, then some chocolate chantilly plus some berries (or flambeed banana, or other fruits) is a good ace in the hole.

The fact that it's not sweet like other mousses is a good help while balancing desserts with other sweet components. If you are making a dessert which include a dried meringue, the chocolate chantilly makes a better pair than any other kind of mousses. Or if you already have a sauce made with milk or cream on your dessert, then it's a good thing to use the chocolate chantilly, not to be redundant with dairy components.

I think it's a good solution for a wide series of desserts. If you eat it alone, it's almost an acquired taste, because its taste is quite different from all the chocolate mousses people are used to eat (it's not "mass friendly"): the first time a person tastes it, usually he's a bit puzzled due to its "weirdness" (meaning quite different from his past experiences). But in the hands of a pastry chef, it gives a lot of new possibilities. I made a simple and basic dessert time ago (dried meringue with ground Sechuan pepper, chocolate chantilly and rosemary sauce), I could not balance it with any other chocolate mousse recipe. Plus you have a lot more possibilities (flavoured liquids, fruit juices, using cocoa butter and not dark chocolate, and so on), so I suggest to not dismiss this recipe after trying it for the first time, it can be really useful.

Uhm, I think Herve This should owe me some money after writing this post.

Teo

[Wholemeal Crank]

More excellent points. I am intrigued by this recipe mostly because it doesn't have anything in it besides the chocolate, and I rarely make chocolate desserts because I'd rather eat my 70% Scharffenberger without dilution. I've been enjoying playing with chocolate flavor combinations through hot chocolate, and this seems like a good way to extend those ideas to something spoon-friendly.

As for the whisking, I think I have a kitchenaid blender that can take that attachment, and have been reading elsewhere about how useful it can be, so will try to get one (mine is the KH100, not the KH300 that now comes packaged with the whisk, but it otherwise looks to be the same thing).

But perhaps for my first time, because it will be a test batch for one, I will start small, skip the kitchenaid, and use the push whisk, and report back with photos.

[Wholemeal Crank]

First attempt was very tasty, but came out quite hard, not ready for sharing yet.

I think I misunderstood the note about 34% fat content: that should be 34% of the weight of (fat + water), or 34% of the weight of the water alone?

For my 70% Sharffenberger, there are 23 grams of fat per 55 grams of chocolate.

So 23 grams is 34% of 68 (23/0.34=68). Do I need to add 45 (=68-23) or the whole 68 grams of water per 55 grams of chocolate?

[teonzo]

So 23 grams is 34% of 68 (23/0.34=68). Do I need to add 45 (=68-23) or the whole 68 grams of water per 55 grams of chocolate?

The second one, you need to add 68 grams of water for 23 grams of cocoa butter.

Teo

[Wholemeal Crank]

Baker's percentages, got it. I used 45 grams. It was marvelously delicious, despite the textural issue, a perfect marriage of peppermint and chocolate--I used a few drops of peppermint oil for extra kick.

[Varun Sheth]

Could someone please explain the above calculations.

[Wholemeal Crank]

The basic question is: the fat in the recipe should be

(1) 34% of the weight of the combined total (weight of water plus weight of fat) in the recipe,

or

(2) 34% of (the weight of the added water alone)?

And we're here ignoring the weight of the sugar and cocoa solids portion of the chocolate, which are not asrelevant to the whipping properties of the final mixture.

If you have 34 grams of cocoa butter in your piece of chocolate--let's say for simplicity's sake that you have a chocolate that is 34% cocoa butter by weight, and you're going to use 100 grams of chocolate for your recipe--you could add

(1) another 100 grams of water: 34 grams of cocoa butter is 34% of 100 grams of water

or

(2) 66 grams of water: 34 grams of cocoa butter is 34% of 100 grams of (66 grams of water plus 34 grams of cocoa butter)

(1) uses 'baker's percentages' where we can end up with more than 100% when you sum the ingredients in the recipe, e.g., pound cake that uses 100% as much eggs, sugar, and butter as flour.

(2) uses a percentages of the combined total of things were measuring, because you can't have more than 100% (and where you'd express the same 1:1:1:1 ratio of eggs:sugar:butter:flour by saying the cake is 25% flour, 25% butter, 25% sugar, and 25% eggs).

In reply to my question, teonzo said:

The second one, you need to add 68 grams of water for 23 grams of cocoa butter.

BUT: the original recipe, if it were made with a chocolate similar to scharffenberger's 70% baking bar, which has 23 grams of fat per 55 grams of chocolate, would contain (23/55)x225 grams of cocoa butter or 94 grams.

And 94 grams is 47% of 200ml (or 200 grams) of water, or 32% of (200grams water plus 94 grams chocolate).

Unless the original recipe were based on chocolate that was less than 25% cocoa butter, it suggests that he was using something very close to this:

Just add 2 grams hot water for every 1 gram cocoa butter in your chocolate (as in option 2 above).

teonzo suggests something closer to 3 grams for every 1 gram of cocoa butter for maximum whipping--can that be right?

And is it all clear as mud yet?

[Varun Sheth]

Clear as mud is right...hehe

I did read teonzos post again and understood what he was saying

Say I am using a 100 gram bar of chocolate which has 34% cocoa butter which equals 34 grams. For this 34 grams I need to add 34 * 3 (approx) gms of water or juice or any other liquid which makes it roughly 100gms of water/ liquid.

Is this correct?

Thanks :-)

[Wholemeal Crank]

That's how I understand it.

[teonzo]

First of all, I apologize for the confusion. I'm not fluent in English (I'm Italian and I've never been in an English speaking country, unfortunately just studied English on the books), so I'm not sure if what I write is exactly what I intend to write. And I just realized that in the USA you express ratios in a different way than in Italy: here in Italy if we say that the ratio between the product A and the product B is X%, then we mean that A/B = X. This is our only way to express ratio, so I never thought there would be another method, cause this is the only one I always saw during school and work. Now I learnt that outside Italy things work differently, so I'll try to keep it in mind and try to be more clear (hoping to succeed in this, as I said I'm not good with English language).

I have to state in advance that I came to know this recipe from this article:

http://bressanini-lescienze.blogautore.espresso.repubblica.it/2008/06/06/le-ricette-scientifiche-il-cioccolato-chantilly/

it's written in Italian, and explains some chemistry behind the recipe. I bought the Herve This' book later, and didn't read the part about the chocolate chantilly. I base my experience only on that article of the link.

Now, about the calculations. This is how I do it. Calculate the amount of cocoa butter you are using (usually it's written on the producer's label). Suppose you are using X grams. Then multiply per 3: 3X is the amount of water you need. Quick example: suppose you are using 50 grams of cocoa butter, then you need 150 grams of water.

This is the recipe I use:

- 300 grams of dark chocolate (Valrhona Guanaja 70%)

- 350 grams of water

Sorry for the mess I created, hope this time I've been able to write something clear to read.

Teo