Tasting Menu Construction Advice

[Brianemone]

Hi eGulleteers.

I am taking over the restaurant I work in for a night to put on a tasting menu. It's a completely different style of food to what we normally cook there and the boss (it's a small place and it's only Him and I in the kitchen) will be a guest along with friends/family and friends of the already mentioned. I am a student in my second year of culinary school and some of my fellow students will be helping me put everything together for the night. I would love some feedback on what I have already planned and input into techniques that I will be trying in some cases for the first time.

Here is the current menu.

Scallops and black pudding crumb, aoli, herb shoots

Seared Tuna, olive puree, strawberry pudding, olive oil, cherry tomato, microherb

Chicken Curry - Confit chicken terrine, Pumpkin tube w/peanut crust, curry chicken consomme, compressed cucumber, coriander shoots, coconut foam

Quail, celeriac risotto, liquorice syrup, shaved fennel

Steak and Chips - Eye Fillet, jus filled tortellini, horse radish potato tots, bacon jam, pea puree

Drunken BLT - Brioche french toast, basil sorbet, candied bacon, sweet tomato powder, bourbon/maple reduction

After Dinner Mint -chocolate mousse rocks, mint crème fraiche blini, freeze dried raspberry

If you have any questions about specific elements I'll be back on after dinner service tonight. Any feedback about anything at all would be great.

Cheers

[Shalmanese]

It seems like a way too protein heavy menu to me. The only carbs I see are the risotto & toast. There also seems to be very scant vegetables.

As far as flavor goes, it's jumping all over the map. Individually, each course might be good but it's hard to see how it all ties together. The shift from curry to licorice flavors, to me, seems especially dissonant and I don't think I would enjoy that leap.

There's also a lot of clashing styles on the menu. Half the stuff on there seems to be re-interpreted comfort food and the other half seems to be clean, modern flavors.

I think if I ate that menu, if you could pull it off technically, I would have a pleasant meal but it's hard to imagine that I would be wowed by it.

You mentioned that you're a second year culinary student. I would say you need to pare back and simplify. There's a lot of good ideas in your menu but the problem is that there may be too many good ideas and each one is fighting to stand out.

[Jon Tseng]

I'd reiterate a lot of what Shalmanese said.

The dishes are too complex. They do not fit within any particular tradition (black pudding+scallops = british surf and turf. aioli = south of france). Tuna olive strawberry = random eclectic. Curry + peanuts + coriander? Most dishes seem to have two ingredients too many. Post #8 at the end of this thread sums up my thoughts on this quite nicely...

I also reiterate the comment that the menu seems groundless in terms of place/cuisine and jumps around. Now this may be the food you like to eat (and as you prepare them these flavour combinations may work well for you), but you cannot be sure this works well for everyone. There is a reason why dishes of a particular cuisine work together - they have been harmonised through hundreds of years of natural selection. Don't diss that.

You are also replicating ingredients which is a real no-no for a tasting menu. Palate fatigue and all that. I can see micro erbs a couple of times in the opening dishes. You have two poultry (chicken and quail) and two red meat (steak and bacon), and two pasta/carb (risotto and tortellini). Study professional tasting menus and you will see they do not replicate protein groups. If you've just has a lump of chicken the last thing you want next is a lump of quail.

A good tasting menu has a rhythm and momentum; light dishes first building up to a climax with heavier dishes. There as a few people who try to make an exception to this (Susar Lee springs to mind) but its generally a good rule to follow. If dishes are all at a same level of bulk and complexity it gets fatiguing. I think you menu has too much bulky stuff to early. Also the BLT after the main fillet is a bit strange. Better to have some of light palate cleansing mini desert to bring people down (think fruity/acidic). Now there is an argument for having a final savoury dish at the very end of the meal (cf English and welsh rarebit) but thats marginal at best and having it right after steak and chips is strange.

A good tasting menu also has contrast in preparation techniques and skills. Can't tell if you have this from the menu, but the quail and steak both sound like fried meat + carb to me. You want to contrast courses in terms of a) method of preparation (fried, boiled, steamed, grilled etc) and b) temperature. It is also good for you as it allows you to demo/use a range of culinary skills. It is analogous to ordering a chinese meal where you will tend to order dishes to share but you want to have different a) main ingredient and b) cooking method for each dish.

Above all less is more. The skill of a great chef is not knowing what to add in (anyone can dump butter into a dish and make it palatable), but what to take away. Its like a sculptor who starts with a block of marble and chips away anything that doesn't look like a horse. Then he has an equestrian sculpture. Balance and restraint are irreplacable.

The great test of a chef is not whether than can cook a tomato desert with twelve spices. Its whether they can cook a perfect omelette, roast chicken, and lemon tart.

J

[bulldawg1]

Not trying to be rude but coming from a culinary school student it sounds like you are trying to tie all the things you have learned into one compact menu that isn't realy seasonaly driven or tied together by one concept.

[Brianemone]

Thanks for the input so far everyone. I really appreciate it, I am definitely trying to take on as much as I can from the advice given.

It seems like a way too protein heavy menu to me. The only carbs I see are the risotto & toast. There also seems to be very scant vegetables.

You mentioned that you're a second year culinary student. I would say you need to pare back and simplify. There's a lot of good ideas in your menu but the problem is that there may be too many good ideas and each one is fighting to stand out.

The reason for wanting to do this is to stretch myself. I don't want to get to the end of school and be in exactly the same place as the other students. I am a lot older than the typical 17/18 yr old school leaver so this is a do or die career move for me.

There aren't a lot of carbs per se but I feel that the balance of vegetables/fruits will be appropriate. I do however think you and Jon Tseng have a very valid point about the possible fatiguing of proteins, specifically with the chicken, that is getting changed now.

Not trying to be rude but coming from a culinary school student it sounds like you are trying to tie all the things you have learned into one compact menu that isn't realy seasonaly driven or tied together by one concept.

Fair comment, have you attended culinary school? If so you might not have thought this given that the stuff that I am wanting to try haven't been touched on in the course. Consommes and Terrines get covered late in this last year but I will be using different techniques than they teach anyway. As for seasonality, I am in new Zealand, so my seasonality is a little different from yours, Celeriac is just coming in, basil and tomatoes are on their last run so I wanted to utilize them.

The dishes are too complex. They do not fit within any particular tradition (black pudding+scallops = british surf and turf. aioli = south of france). Tuna olive strawberry = random eclectic. Curry + peanuts + coriander? Most dishes seem to have two ingredients too many. Post #8 at the end of this thread sums up my thoughts on this quite nicely...

I also reiterate the comment that the menu seems groundless in terms of place/cuisine and jumps around. Now this may be the food you like to eat (and as you prepare them these flavour combinations may work well for you), but you cannot be sure this works well for everyone. There is a reason why dishes of a particular cuisine work together - they have been harmonised through hundreds of years of natural selection. Don't diss that.

Fair call, some of them are a little different, but the likes of the curry dish I feel are very faithful to the combinations of flavour profiles. It's also a little bit of nostalgia for the food I ate growing up in each of the dishes as well.

I think you are spot on about the eye fillet having too many components, have changed that quite a bit now. New Zealand isn't exactly famous for a strong culinary heritage but I feel that some of the combinations pay homage to how we eat here, and might not make sense in other countries.

Now there is an argument for having a final savoury dish at the very end of the meal (cf English and welsh rarebit) but thats marginal at best and having it right after steak and chips is strange.

Sorry, should have made that clearer. The BLT is a dessert (in this case) french toast/pan perdu with a sorbet.

The great test of a chef is not whether than can cook a tomato desert with twelve spices. Its whether they can cook a perfect omelette, roast chicken, and lemon tart.

I can definitely appreciate this, but this is what I am doing at school, learning the fundamentals. It is also what I do at home when practicing and making family meals or dishes to take to other peoples houses. My favourite type of restaurants are the ones that use the best of what is available and combine them to make something new, exciting, and delicious. In saying that, I will be trying to keep that in mind, it's partly why I posted here because I do get carried away with idea and a little excited about what can be crammed onto a plate.

[G-rat]

I like the menu....sure it's got a lot going on but I want to see how you can make all of those things fly together and a number of those combinations get me salivating. The middle course sounds excellent, "Quail, celeriac risotto, liquorice syrup, shaved fennel"...uhh sign me up.

However the only thing I don't like on the menu is the seared tuna dish. Too many elements in my opinion...lots of naturally acidic things with a lighter (ish) protein. The tuna might be nice and fatty but sounds like it is gonna get lost in the other components.

The only other thing I would say critique wise is that you will have a number of diners who, as has been stated, will get burnt out on proteins by dessert. I could be wrong but if the place you cook doesn't normally do stuff like this then will the crowd coming be used to very very interesting food? If not they might find themselves worn out by a dessert BLT...but then again they might think it is awesome because they've never even dreamed of it before.

I like it and hope it works well for you. Good luck!

[Jon Tseng]

The other argument to simplify, btw, is practicality. If you are doing this in a restaurant I assume you will have a reasonable number of covers to handle. With that many components in a dish you WILL find yourself getting time pressured and inevitably presentation will suffer. There is a reason why the rule of thumb in banqueting is to have dishes that can be plated in three/four movements!

I think your comment that you want to stretch yourself is quite telling. As I said often the easy route is actually being unnecessarily complex. Although it sounds counter-intuitive the harder/braver thing is actually to put less on the plate. I see this very often in restaurants where the * restaurants often have unnecessary complication on the plate whereas once your get to the *** level you'd be surprised how pared back things get. Alain Ducasse's signature desert is a Rum Baba and Gordon Ramsay's is a Tarte Tatin. That says a lot.

Best of luck

J

[Chris Amirault]

You mentioned that you're a second year culinary student. I would say you need to pare back and simplify. There's a lot of good ideas in your menu but the problem is that there may be too many good ideas and each one is fighting to stand out.

The reason for wanting to do this is to stretch myself. I don't want to get to the end of school and be in exactly the same place as the other students. I am a lot older than the typical 17/18 yr old school leaver so this is a do or die career move for me.

I read this and thought, "It's fine to stretch yourself; it's not fine to violate basic principles of hospitality and dining at the expense of guests, even if they are F&F." I really agree with what Shalmanese and Jon said: don't try to cram as much into one night as you can just to say you did. The food will suffer, as will the diners, who couldn't possibly keep up with a string like the one you proposed.

Why not stretch yourself by trying challenging techniques? designing and executing sophisticated presentations? charting a progression from course to course?

That last is my biggest concern. Moving from black pudding to strawberries to curry spices to licorice to horseradish to bacon... it just feels like a rollercoaster instead of an organized whole.

[Kouign Aman]

You;ve got lots of strong flavors going on, and that will be fun.

I wonder if the flow would work better slightly re-ordered?

Maybe tuna to quail to steak to chicken? I know its more usual to put the big red meat dish last, but chicken curry is strongly flavored and that way you avoid bacon being in two courses in a row.

Strawberries and seared tuna is not working in my head. It sounds nasty.

but for what its worth, I dont like strawberries w rhubarb either. YMMV.

Can you do anything w kumara?

[Shalmanese]

It seems like a way too protein heavy menu to me. The only carbs I see are the risotto & toast. There also seems to be very scant vegetables.

You mentioned that you're a second year culinary student. I would say you need to pare back and simplify. There's a lot of good ideas in your menu but the problem is that there may be too many good ideas and each one is fighting to stand out.

The reason for wanting to do this is to stretch myself. I don't want to get to the end of school and be in exactly the same place as the other students. I am a lot older than the typical 17/18 yr old school leaver so this is a do or die career move for me.

Look, I understand this desire, I really do. But I'm here to tell you that this is not the right way to do it.

There are other ways to distinguish yourself: sophisticated balancing of flavors, proper cooking times & temps, correct seasoning, showcasing ingredients etc. Unless you have these down, people won't even care what sorts of weird and wacky menus you've dreamt up. I don't know if you've ever watched top chef but, even with chefs of that calibre, they're still regularly dinged for improper seasoning even thought it seems like the most basic of things.

[Chris Amirault]

So what happened?!?

[Shalmanese]

Yes, I'm curious as well. How did the dinner go?

[Brianemone]

Yes, I'm curious as well. How did the dinner go?

After a day to recover........

Thinks started off pretty rough, the front of house girl that was supposed to be helping (the only person that was going to get paid for the night) didn't show up. My bosses wife got really sick, so they couldn't come, and the Celeriac wasn't ready yet (the grower overestimated their size when discussing the order) Some of my micro herbs also didn't arrive (Corriander/Spring Onion) as the same day courier failed.

These issues got me a little worried but I think we coped with the speed bumps well. The guys helping me were real stars. We all chipped in taking drink orders and keeping the cutlery/plates cleared. And we got most of the prep done with about 30 minutes to spare. I find it comforting that while I didn't have time to check egullet in the days leading up that some of the suggestions made were things I actually did. I also went and spent a service at one of the top restaurant in the country to see how they structure their tasting menu service.

This is how the final menu appeared as given to the guests.

Scallops

Black Pudding and Preserved Lemons

Quail

Cauliflower and Liquorice

Tuna

Olives, Tomatoes and Strawberry

Chicken

Curry, Cucumber, Mint and Yogurt

Steak

Peas, Onions and Mushroom

Brioche

Bacon, Basil, Tomato and Maple

Chocolate

Peppermint and Raspberries

I asked some of the guests to write their thoughts about the dishes on the menu as the night went along so that I could have some specific details rather than hazy recollections once it was all finished.

Here are some pics of some of the dishes that we threw together after everything was finished so that we could to take the pics, some of the herbs were a little sad by this point.

The highlight for me was the tuna. I think it's concept was clean and simple with good flavours. The risotto for the quail looks a little over cooked in the pic as it was some left over rice that we wanted to try and there wasn't enough for a whole extra portion for the picture.

My least favourite overall dish was the chicken, the consommé was great, crystal clear and tasty, the cucumber/mint/yogurt/peanuts all great, but I think it should have perhaps stopped there, the chicken didn't carry the flavour in the way I had hoped it would, the format was just wrong. It wasn't bad, it just wasn't memorable.

The final dessert was perhaps also a little heavy to finish and might have been more suited to a smaller portion (I had plenty though and didn't want to skimp in case people wanted to eat lots of it), but was also one of my favourite parts of the night as we plated it at the table. People really seemed to enjoy the interactivity of some of the dishes ie the final dish being plated at the table, the consommé being poured table side, the hidden aioli under the black pudding, and the jus filled pasta on the steak dish that released the sauce as they ate it.

Well worth the stress and effort in terms of what I got out of it, and everyone really enjoyed the overall experience even if there might have been one or two parts that they didn't like (one doesn't eat fish, another can't stomach cauliflower). Only one person left "hungry", but it was my brother in law, and I don't think I have ever known him to be full, ever. Everyone else seemed sated, perhaps a little too much in some cases.

I don't think I would ever be 100% satisfied no matter what the feedback, but I tried to enjoy it as much as possible and make it a stress free night for the people attending.

Thanks for the feed back from everyone about my initial plans, it gave me plenty to think about and helped a great deal.

[Tri2Cook]

Nice work. I used to do menues the same way. I'd figure them out, decide I'm not as confident about it as I thought I was, ask opinions... then end up doing it my way anyway. It usually worked out and eventually the confidence grows enough to keep up with the ideas so that self-editing becomes easier. Not that I'm above asking advice and learning, I hope I never think I'm at that point, I've just learned to trust my own ideas more than I used to. Looks like it worked out great and the guest comments back that up. You have to be happy with what you do and the thoughts of those who have only read the ideas can be helpful but, in the end, what the people eating the food think is what really matters.