The Bread Topic (2009 – 2014)

[Kerry Beal]

Crowdingthepan got me interested in trying the Lahey method again - haven't done it in a while. Yesterday I made a nice mixed grain yogurt loaf - but last night I got to jonesing about crust!

I let it rise in my homemade linen lined banneton - only thing I'm wondering is whether I'd really rather find a way to transfer it into the cast iron dutch oven seam side down instead of up - I'm not totally crazy about the look of the loaf seam up. I did give it a little snip with scissors going in.

Right now I can hear it singing to me. It's going to be one lovely crust.

[Aloha Steve]

Crowdingthepan got me interested in trying the Lahey method again - haven't done it in a while. Yesterday I made a nice mixed grain yogurt loaf - but last night I got to jonesing about crust!

I let it rise in my homemade linen lined banneton - only thing I'm wondering is whether I'd really rather find a way to transfer it into the cast iron dutch oven seam side down instead of up - I'm not totally crazy about the look of the loaf seam up. I did give it a little snip with scissors going in.

Right now I can hear it singing to me. It's going to be one lovely crust.

Kerry, wouldn't it be simply be putting into the dutch oven loaf seem down ? After all, is it not proofing load seem up ?

[Kerry Beal]

Crowdingthepan got me interested in trying the Lahey method again - haven't done it in a while. Yesterday I made a nice mixed grain yogurt loaf - but last night I got to jonesing about crust!

I let it rise in my homemade linen lined banneton - only thing I'm wondering is whether I'd really rather find a way to transfer it into the cast iron dutch oven seam side down instead of up - I'm not totally crazy about the look of the loaf seam up. I did give it a little snip with scissors going in.

Right now I can hear it singing to me. It's going to be one lovely crust.

Kerry, wouldn't it be simply be putting into the dutch oven loaf seem down ? After all, is it not proofing load seem up ?

Instructions called for proofing seam down, next time I'll do it seam up!

[Aloha Steve]

Crowdingthepan got me interested in trying the Lahey method again - haven't done it in a while. Yesterday I made a nice mixed grain yogurt loaf - but last night I got to jonesing about crust!

I let it rise in my homemade linen lined banneton - only thing I'm wondering is whether I'd really rather find a way to transfer it into the cast iron dutch oven seam side down instead of up - I'm not totally crazy about the look of the loaf seam up. I did give it a little snip with scissors going in.

Right now I can hear it singing to me. It's going to be one lovely crust.

Kerry, wouldn't it be simply be putting into the dutch oven loaf seem down ? After all, is it not proofing load seem up ?

Instructions called for proofing seam down, next time I'll do it seam up!

I've never made, as you see up thread a little I am going to try NK in the next days. There well may be a good reason for proofing seam side down. Let us know how it works out.

Edited March 21, 2010 by Aloha Steve (log)

[AndreaReina]

I believe that since mechanically any seam is weaker than an unbroken material, you proof it seam side down so that the gasses are retained in the loaf instead of escaping into the atmosphere. Then you bake it seam side up so that you don't have to do any slashing of the loaf -- slashing is to produce a weak point where the crust can expand, and the seam does that nicely. It's also convenient because one of the easier ways to get the loaf off the proofing linen and onto your hands is to place one hand on top, take the linen in the other, and flip. Now the seam is on top, and you just drop the loaf into the dutch oven.

Cooking the loaf under a stainless steel pan does indeed get that beautiful crust without having to use a dutch oven, steam injection, or water/ice cubes in a pan. I've used the lid of a roaster pan for my ciabatte, and it works great. If results aren't what they could be, try spritzing the inside of the pan with just a little water, give it a little head-start.

[Aloha Steve]

I believe that since mechanically any seam is weaker than an unbroken material, you proof it seam side down so that the gasses are retained in the loaf instead of escaping into the atmosphere. Then you bake it seam side up so that you don't have to do any slashing of the loaf -- slashing is to produce a weak point where the crust can expand, and the seam does that nicely. It's also convenient because one of the easier ways to get the loaf off the proofing linen and onto your hands is to place one hand on top, take the linen in the other, and flip. Now the seam is on top, and you just drop the loaf into the dutch oven.

This maybe true for NK bread as I have not read the acknowledged master baker's books but all the bread books I have, say seem side up when proofing in a basket

Cooking the loaf under a stainless steel pan does indeed get that beautiful crust without having to use a dutch oven, steam injection, or water/ice cubes in a pan. I've used the lid of a roaster pan for my ciabatte, and it works great. If results aren't what they could be, try spritzing the inside of the pan with just a little water, give it a little head-start.

I tried this yesterday. The load came out of the basket, onto the peel and did not spread, which for me is a first. I then put it onto a hot stone, covered with large SS bowl. 30 minutes later, took of SS bowl to finish uncovered, and found the loaf flattened

Should I have heated the SS bowl along with the oven and stone ?

Edited March 21, 2010 by Aloha Steve (log)

[robirdstx]

Today I baked this loaf of "Artisan Bread in Five Minutes a Day" in my dutch oven to accompany tonight's dinner.

Just out of the oven!

On the cooling rack.

Edited March 21, 2010 by robirdstx (log)

[robirdstx]

And here's the loaf after slicing. The crust was nice and crisp and the crumb was light and moist. I used 50% KA A/P and 50% KA White Whole Wheat for the flour.

[Aloha Steve]

And here's the loaf after slicing. The crust was nice and crisp and the crumb was light and moist. I used 50% KA A/P and 50% KA White Whole Wheat for the flour.

Since your first post showing the loaf, I've been all over the net gathering info. LOL

I have three questions:

What did your loaf weigh before and into what size dutch oven did you put it in.

If you were going to buy a size specifically for bread making, what would it be and does it matter ?

I know 4 questions

I should just add to my signature, EDITED FOR GRAMMAR AND SPELLING

Edited March 21, 2010 by Aloha Steve (log)

[robirdstx]

Since your first post showing the loaf, I've been all over the net gathering info. LOL

I have three questions:

What did your loaf weigh before and into what size dutch oven did you put it in.

If you were going to buy a size specifically for bread making, what would it be and does it matter ?

I know 4 questions

I don't usually weigh the dough but I did this time for some reason. It weighed 14.74 ounces. My dutch oven is a 5.5 qt. oblong made by Cuisinart. This is the only dutch oven I have ever used and its working good for me. A round one would probably work just as well but the oblong shape makes it easy for me to get the loaf into and out of the pan. I like to avoid burns when I can. LOL

You didn't ask but I preheated the dutch oven in the oven to 450 degrees for 20 minutes. I baked the loaf for 25 minutes with the lid on and then 15 minutes with the lid off. This is the third time I have made this loaf this way and have really liked the results each time.

ETA: I let the dough do its rest and bake on parchment paper with cornmeal. I use the parchment to lift the loaf into and out of the pan.

Edited March 21, 2010 by robirdstx (log)

[Aloha Steve]

Since your first post showing the loaf, I've been all over the net gathering info. LOL

I have three questions:

What did your loaf weigh before and into what size dutch oven did you put it in.

If you were going to buy a size specifically for bread making, what would it be and does it matter ?

I know 4 questions

I don't usually weigh the dough but I did this time for some reason. It weighed 14.74 ounces. My dutch oven is a 5.5 qt. oblong made by Cuisinart. This is the only dutch oven I have ever used and its working good for me. A round one would probably work just as well but the oblong shape makes it easy for me to get the loaf into and out of the pan. I like to avoid burns when I can. LOL

You didn't ask but I preheated the dutch oven in the oven to 450 degrees for 20 minutes. I baked the loaf for 25 minutes with the lid on and then 15 minutes with the lid off. This is the third time I have made this loaf this way and have really liked the results each time.

ETA: I let the dough do its rest and bake on parchment paper with cornmeal. I use the parchment to lift the dough into and out of the pan.

Thanks very much for the directions, I've noted them. I am thinking of buying this now, a decent price for a Le Crueuset and I have a 6 QT only, so it will fill a gap, plus I don't have to buy a replacement knob for the one I have.

Its not enamel but stoneware.......what do you think ?

[robirdstx]

Thanks very much for the directions, I've noted them. I am thinking of buying this now, a decent price for a Le Crueuset and I have a 6 QT only, so it will fill a gap, plus I don't have to buy a replacement knob for the one I have.

Its not enamel but stoneware.......what do you think ?

I haven't baked bread using their stoneware so can't offer an opinion. But, I have used their stoneware for other applications and have been very happy.

Edited March 21, 2010 by robirdstx (log)

[Aloha Steve]

Thanks very much for the directions, I've noted them. I am thinking of buying this now, a decent price for a Le Crueuset and I have a 6 QT only, so it will fill a gap, plus I don't have to buy a replacement knob for the one I have.

Its not enamel but stoneware.......what do you think ?

I haven't baked bread using their stoneware so can't offer an opinion. But, I have used their stoneware for other applications and have been very happy.

Many thanks for all the help......steve

[robirdstx]

Thanks very much for the directions, I've noted them. I am thinking of buying this now, a decent price for a Le Crueuset and I have a 6 QT only, so it will fill a gap, plus I don't have to buy a replacement knob for the one I have.

Its not enamel but stoneware.......what do you think ?

I haven't baked bread using their stoneware so can't offer an opinion. But, I have used their stoneware for other applications and have been very happy.

Many thanks for all the help......steve

Steve, you are most welcome. I found this thread to be very helpful:

[Aloha Steve]

AndreaReina, on 21 March 2010 - 06:58 AM, said:

Cooking the loaf under a stainless steel pan does indeed get that beautiful crust without having to use a dutch oven, steam injection, or water/ice cubes in a pan. I've used the lid of a roaster pan for my ciabatte, and it works great. If results aren't what they could be, try spritzing the inside of the pan with just a little water, give it a little head-start.

I tried this yesterday. The load came out of the basket, onto the peel and did not spread, which for me is a first. I then put it onto a hot stone, covered with large SS bowl. 30 minutes later, took of SS bowl to finish uncovered, and found the loaf flattened

Should I have heated the SS bowl along with the oven and stone ?

Besides editing for grammar and spelling, I should also put for screwing up quotes!!

Here is the loaf I tried the no adding water to get steam, letting the steam come from the bread covered method.

It is a Spinach & Cheddar cheese loaf, made with a poolish. Total flour is 3-1 WW v BF. I have not made it before, so I cannot compare. Taste aside, it did not rise as much as I thought it would, not as much oven spring as I thought it would and the crust isn't crunchy and hardly any oven spring. It tastey but I won't make it again. I cannot say that its because of not 'injecting' steam vs covered with SS bowl made a lick of difference. Even if I made it before, because I am a novice baker therefore, I cannot say, I under or over proofed it, I think I may have mixed a bit too long in the mixer and all these things could make a diff. All mute as I have no comparison.

Today I was been told to warm up the SS bowl with hot water, letting some drops stay in before covering, so when it get's overturned onto the bread on a heated stone, there is some additional steam happening.

Edited March 21, 2010 by Aloha Steve (log)

[crowdingthepan]

Crowdingthepan got me interested in trying the Lahey method again - haven't done it in a while. Yesterday I made a nice mixed grain yogurt loaf - but last night I got to jonesing about crust!

I let it rise in my homemade linen lined banneton - only thing I'm wondering is whether I'd really rather find a way to transfer it into the cast iron dutch oven seam side down instead of up - I'm not totally crazy about the look of the loaf seam up. I did give it a little snip with scissors going in.

For whatever reason, the seam thing doesn't seem to be much of an issue for me. Following my initial 18 hour room temperature rise, I fold the dough a few times and plop it onto a well floured towel. At this point it's roughly ball shaped and full of seams. But, during the secondary rise, the dough sort of "eats" the seams. The real trick is getting it into the pot efficiently, evenly, and without sticking to the towel. Oddly enough, increasing and decreasing the hydration ratio doesn't seem to have an effect on towel stickery.

[Aloha Steve]

I made two batards this morning using Heart Surgeons interpretation of the 5 Minute Artisan Formula.

I posted it in that thread I included pix....

Edited March 23, 2010 by Aloha Steve (log)

[Aloha Steve]

I recently discovered this. Steam Kit

I wrote a long post about it in the ABI5M topic.

Excellent idea on how to get steam into a home oven safely.

[robirdstx]

Reinhart's BBA White Bread, Variation Two has become our go to sandwich bread. I made two loaves today. One will go into the freezer for use later in the week. After trying a number of different loaf pans, the Anchor Hocking glass loaf dishes are giving us the kind of crust we were looking for in a sandwich bread. And the dish is only four bucks at Wal-Mart!

Ready to go into the oven.

Half-way through baking.

Cooling down.

[Aloha Steve]

Reinhart's BBA White Bread, Variation Two has become our go to sandwich bread. I made two loaves today. One will go into the freezer for use later in the week. After trying a number of different loaf pans, the Anchor Hocking glass loaf dishes are giving us the kind of crust we were looking for in a sandwich bread. And the dish is only four bucks at Wal-Mart!

Ready to go into the oven.

Half-way through baking.

Cooling down.

Perfect looking sandwich bread. Going to check out Wal-Mart here and see what they want for it. Should only be a buck or two hughre for shipping.

[Ciao Ling]

Back to artisan bread this weekend. From Dan Leader's Local Breads, I made for the first time, Pane Casareccio di Genzano, a country bread from the Italian town of Genzano. It starts with a biga naturale using a firm sourdough starter. The dough is composed of high gluten flour and is quite wet and gloppy. Your really need a mold, in my case a round banneton I dusted liberally with flour and unprocessed wheat bran. I then did a quick flip onto parchment. The high strength flour (I used KA Sir Lancelot flour with a protein content of about 14%) and high hydration makes for a crisp chewy crust and beautiful oven spring and crumb. It is quite a big dark crusted loaf and according to Leader is a bread that keeps well for several days. This despite the fact that it has no oils, just preferment, some instant yeast, water, flour, and salt.

[Aloha Steve]

Back to artisan bread this weekend. From Dan Leader's Local Breads, I made for the first time, Pane Casareccio di Genzano, a country bread from the Italian town of Genzano. It starts with a biga naturale using a firm sourdough starter. The dough is composed of high gluten flour and is quite wet and gloppy. Your really need a mold, in my case a round banneton I dusted liberally with flour and unprocessed wheat bran. I then did a quick flip onto parchment. The high strength flour (I used KA Sir Lancelot flour with a protein content of about 14%) and high hydration makes for a crisp chewy crust and beautiful oven spring and crumb. It is quite a big dark crusted loaf and according to Leader is a bread that keeps well for several days. This despite the fact that it has no oils, just preferment, some instant yeast, water, flour, and salt.

Fabulous looking boule ! Looks so crunchy......hmmmmmm

[Blether]

That really looks great, Ciao Ling.

Here, more rolls.

This time, ~11.8% Camelia brand flour instead of the previous (checked the bag) ~13.1% Canada 100. Initial oven temperature raised to 230C - this would have been right for the C100, but the Camelia proves keener to brown and the result is some burning on some of the rolls. Once again the roll in the centre of the batch comes out least browned, and it's the one pictured.

Otherwise pretty much the same approach. The same rising time gave a more pronounced rise, but there was a commensurate reduction in oven spring (little or none) so that the result is rolls of the same size. The fridge-retard period was nearer a week than 5 days this time, but I'm relaxed about that - I'll can nail down the minor factors once the main ones are in line.

How are they ? Disappointing, flavour-wise, hot from the oven. After a night in a plastic bag with its mouth open, actually quite good eating. The thick crust is nicely chewy without being soft, and carries a good browned-bread flavour. In Scotland I have eaten rolls exactly like these, and I'd put them in the top 10% of 'good rolls'; maybe the top half of 'good bakery rolls'.

It isn't the ideal that I'm looking for, though. Camelia hasn't given as good a flavour in the crumb as the bread I was making before with Ebetsu Mills' Haruyutaka Blend at 11.0% or Minorinooka at 10.something. And I still have a bunch of flour to bake through before I'll be shopping again.

A general question, for both bread and rolls, 'cos I'm baking bread regularly with these flours, too. What's with the cookery writers that claim 'higher gluten gives a higher rise' ? Up to a point I've found that's true, but the 13.1% stuff just doesn't rise higher than the 11 or the 10.something. It simply doesn't. In fact not as high, so far, even pushing hydration to the limit (I have a couple more things to try). Am I jumping to an early conclusion, or are the books too sweeping ?

Edited March 29, 2010 by Blether (log)

[MikeJ]

Recently I made a sourdough loaf impregnated with 4 bulbs of roasted garlic.

The procedure was as follows: roast 4 bulbs of garlic, olive oiled and in tinfoil, until dark and sweet. Refrigerate overnight, and the next day try to pop the cloves out of their skins whole.

Then make some standard white sourdough - I usually follow something similar to the egullet sourdough recipe, this time with the addition of a couple tablespoons of very finely chopped rosemary. At the mixing stage, I also incorporated those garlic cloves that didn't make it out intact; maybe a bulb's worth. The garlic should be soft enough that it just blends into the dough.

During bulk fermentation, I often use the stretch & fold technique. During the final stretch & fold (about 3 hours into the 4-hour bulk fermentation) I stretched the dough out like a pizza, scattered the rest of the roasted garlic over it along with some olive oil and pepper, and then folded it up, sealing all the garlic on the inside.

An hour later I shaped the loaf and proofed as usual (for about 1.5 hours), then baked it.

The result can only be described as an unmitigated success. The bread was redolent of garlic, and the roasted cloves popped up here and there like little treasures. The rosemary provided a measure of freshness. I think even more garlic could be incorporated without adverse effects - next time I will try six bulbs.

Here are pictures:

Edited March 30, 2010 by MikeJ (log)

[Aloha Steve]

Recently I made a sourdough loaf impregnated with 4 bulbs of roasted garlic.

Did the bulbs have many babies ?

Sorry could not help myself.

What a great looking bread and I be it tastes delicious. I will give it a try too.