Mystery Pizza

[rlibkind]

An acquaintenance, an experienced commercial and retail baker, is considering branching out into pizza, so he's making test pizzas for friends.

Just on looks alone, whaddya think?

[MarketStEl]

Doesn't look too bad -- looks handmade, in fact, which is a good thing.

What's it look like on the bottom?

[rlibkind]

Nicely charred.

[slkinsey]

It's hard to tell too much from the picture. From what I can tell, it looks pretty good for that style. If I had any observations as to what might be improved they would be that the cheese appears to be a bit overdone (it can often become a bit "leathery" when cooked to this point), and overall I'd probably prefer less cheese.

To my eye I'd say that it looks like a reasonably good, but by no means revelatory, example from the family of stainless deck oven pizzeria pizza.

Edited February 9, 2009 by slkinsey (log)

[gfweb]

Hard to tell how much sauce is under all that cheese. I take it that its thin crust...which is good.

[Rich Pawlak]

Nice blistering on the crust, cheese looks a BIT overdone, but that's a small quibble. Great color and appearance.

Can he send me one? ASAP?

[prasantrin]

It's hard to tell because of the lighting (of the picture), but I'm wondering what style of pizza it's supposed to be. My first thought was Neapolitan, but if that's the case, there's too much cheese (for my tastes). From the colour of the cheese, it looks like there might be too much sauce under there, too.

I like the blistering, but there's something about the looks of the crust that makes me think it might be a little tough. Maybe the colouring, but again, that could be due to the colouring of the picture, itself.

But if it's not Neapolitan, then I take back my comments. Actually, I think your friend might just have to send me some, so I can say for sure.

[Jeff L]

So Bob, most important question is: How did it taste?

I like the look of the crust and it does resemble the Neoplolitan style to me.

[hansjoakim]

it certainly looks interesting! i would love to see the cross section of the crust, just to get an idea of how thin it is, and how airy the "outer rim" is. it could definitely use some color to liven it up; a generous sprinkling of green herbs perhaps?

what does it look like underneath?

[Tim Dolan]

I think it looks exactly like what a typical neighborhood pizza joint would make. IMHO, it reminds me of Dantonio's, which is the epitome of "average corner pizza shop". Just my $.02.

[slkinsey]

Bob: What is your friend's goal in offering pizza?

If the goal is to have a "destination pizzeria" then there is likely quite a bit of work to be done.

If the goal is to turn out a respectable "corner pizza shop" product as an adjunct to his bakery business, then it looks like it's probably good to go.

[Jeff L]

For comparitive purposes:

Just another pizza picture

[rlibkind]

It's not meant to be a destination pizza, Sam. The guy who made it runs a small Philadelphia Italian bread bakery and the main part of his business is supplying steak and hoagie rolls to cheese steak and hoagie makers. He's trying to add a little more profit to what is a thin-margin business (especially with the rise in flour prices), but he's got pride in what he produces, so he's been experimenting with making pizza and asking for comments.

It's definitely on the thin crust side, though not papery. Avoiding toughness in the dough is a concern. When I tried a cold slice at the store (he does do a little retail bread business) I thought it was too tough. But when I took home a whole pie and reheated it on a bakery's stone in a 500F oven for a couple of minutes, the samples I tasted weren't tough at all.

It's definitely not over-sauced. She Who Must Be Obeyed doesn't like much sauce at all and appreciated the light hand. It's also a straightforward sauce, with just bare hints of seasoning.

There might have been just a tad more cheese than needed, though I think most folks like to see more cheese rather than less. I know that after taking it out of my home oven, I felt the burn on the roof of my mouth for the next two days.

The cheese, btw, is high quality, from Grande. No need to top this stuff with oil to prevent it from burning.

As I noted up top in response to Sam, it's not a destination pizza, but rather, based on my taste of one sample so, far, a very good example of the type of pie I enjoyed in my North Jersey homeland, which is hard to find in Philadelphia. It's a very well-executed neighborhood pie.

I'll let you everyone know when he's ready to go public.

[slkinsey]

JeffL: The picture on the De Lorenzo's site is not so great. Pictures and descriptions elswhere suggest a pizza with significantly less cheese, sauce on top and a puffier crust than rlibkind's friend.

rlibkind: sounds like it's close to spot-on, then. fwiw, I think that "tough crusts" almost always are due to the pizza maker using high gluten flour. If they want to use high gluten flour, the dough has to include some fat to tenderize the crust. If he's trying to replicate the "tomato pie" style, as noted above, I'd try for a puffier crust, less cheese and the sauce on top. If he's in a location where this style is unknown, it could be a great way to differentiate his product.

[Jeff L]

I have to agree, those pictures are really superior. Cool site too, I'd forgotten about that. Hmm. might just take a ride to Robbinsville for lunch...

[rlibkind]

The cheese might have been overdone a tad, even before I reheated at home.

I discussed the pizza with one of the baker's sandwich roll customers, and we both agreed that it was a better-than-average pie that would be our go-to pizza if it was in our neighborhood. But that led to a further discussion about what makes a "wow" pizza, which this wasn't.

I've had only a few pizzas that fit that category, and in each instance it's been a simple pizza margherita from a wood-fired oven: charred dough with a little sauce, a little fresh mozzarella and some basil. (Maybe a couple anchovies for me.) As much as I enjoyed the fine version of the pizza this "mystery" effort represented, it won't "wow" anyone. But I fully intend, when the baker goes on stream, to ask for it again, underbaked for finishing at home.

[nickrey]

If your friend is interested in some ideas for pizza recipes (both conventional and modern), a book has been written by an Australian chef called John Lanzafame, called Pizza Modo Mio.

He comes well recommended, being a winner of the America's Plate world championship pizza competition in 2004 for his filled river calamari pizza. He then successfully defended the title in 2005.

The book link is here.

Like your friend, he uses thin and crispy crusts. He also combines this with a philosphy that less is more.

A recipe for one of his modern pizzas: potato, anchovy, rosemary and white prosciutto pizza, along with a picture of the same can be found here (the pictures in the book are much better but this was the best I could find on the web). It also has a video of him making the pizza if you can get past the Aussie accents.

Edited February 10, 2009 by nickrey (log)

[rlibkind]

The "mystery pizza" will go on sale Monday.

The baker is Danny DiGiampietro, and the bakery is located in South Philly at 8th and Watkins (1712 S. 8th). Pizza will be available from 11 a.m. to 11 p.m., I think seven days a week.

Right now the sign in front says "Coppola Bakery", which was the name before Danny took over the shop nearly a year and a half ago. It might be changed to "Giampietro" by Monday. Maybe not. The actual name of the business, though this will probably change, too, is Danti's Bread Company.

Danny's main business is baking sandwich rolls for steak and hoagie shops, including Tommy DiNic's at the Reading Terminal Market. So, as I noted earlier, his entry into the pizza world is not to turn it upside down, but to simply add a profitable line to his base business. At the same time, he wants to make sure the quality of the pizza is as good as his commercial bread. (And it is good, as anyone who has enjoyed DiNic's sandwiches knows. I've tried Danny's regular Italian bread; it's not very dense, but it's got a little more chew to it than, say, Sarcone's.)

Danny has no pretention of making a "destination" pizza, so he hasn't invested in an expensive wood-burning oven or plans on an artisinal approach. Just a good, solid pie that is, amazingly, not easy to find in Philadelphia: good, crisp crust, straight-ahead sauce, high quality cheese. I think his availability of other toppings will probably be limited, so don't expect to order a clam pie or pineapple and ham.

He does have a big brick oven in the basement, which probaby dates back 80 or 100 years, since he figures the building was built as a bakery. It's restorable, but would take a major investment, one he's not planning to make in the foreseeable future.

Here's a photo of the bakery, with a contractor checking the sign before replacement (and Danny, hidden, buttressing the chair).

BTW, none of the non-bread items touted by the Coppola sign are available at Danny's. Although he offers some cinnamon raisin rolls, he's basically a bread baker and, starting Monday, a pizzeria.