Do you chop or do you slice?

[scubadoo97]

We use the term chop but rarely are we chopping vegetables like one would chop a bone in half with a cleaver. The chop motion commonly involves a elliptical motion of vertical and horizontal components so you are in a sense slicing with a downward motion. My knives can push cut very well but they are more effective with a slicing motion. So that makes me a slicer.

[paulraphael]

The chop motion commonly involves a elliptical motion of vertical and horizontal components so you are in a sense slicing with a downward motion

That's true. I think we usually call it chopping or push cutting when the horizontal motion is very small compared with the vertical motion. It's there, but much less so than with traditional slicing.

These terms and definitions are far from standardized. I always like to add some description to words like chop or slice or push ... people have assumed that I meant the opposite more than once.

[Qwerty]

We use the term chop but rarely are we chopping vegetables like one would chop a bone in half with a cleaver.  The chop motion commonly involves a elliptical motion of vertical and horizontal components so you are in a sense slicing with a downward motion.  My knives can push cut very well but they are more effective with a slicing motion.  So that makes me a slicer.

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Isn't that what we are talking about? Slicing is the elliptical and chopping is the straight downward?

I disagree--I call what you said was a chop a slice...maybe thats where the confusion starts eh?

[Dante]

My understanding is that the proper way to use a chef's knife, in order to preserve the edge, is to slice -- in other words to use a lateral motion while cutting, rather than just pushing down. Me, I'm more of a just-push-down person. How about you? And is there anything to the claim that just pushing down is bad for a knife?

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Well, I'll start out by saying that I drove my instructors at ACA to distraction with my form, and never did seem to perfect it (tho it seems to functionally get the same results anyway), but I slice when I feel appropriate and rock up and down plus slightly back and forth for chopping- a sort of half-slice half-chop. I don't just chop going up-and-down.

Sincerely,

Dante

[slkinsey]

There are essentially three ways that a knife can cut.

There is the push cut, in which the blade has no side-to-side motion and force is applied downward.

There is the slice, in which the blade moves in a side-to-side motion and minimal force is applied downward.

There is the shearing cut, which involves both significant downward force and slicing motion.

Most of what we do in the kitchen is a shearing cut of one kind or another.

[Octaveman]

Based on those examples I mostly do a modified shearing in that I don't pull back, I push forward. Think of it as rocking motion but with the tip up and the edge parallel with the board. Just enough forward motion to get a "clean" slice and just enough downard motion to cut the food. With a sharp knife, it doesn't take much force to do either movements. I will push cut with the tip only...like for mincing onion.

[slkinsey]

Right. The direction of the lateral movement isn't important in a shearing cut. Just that there is some. And, with most cooks who have good knife technique, there is always a certain amount of lateral movement.

In the grand scheme of things few kitchen knife, even the ones with acute angles and microfine polished edges, are optimized for true push-cutting. For this, you want something like a razor or a scalpel. The geometry and fineness of grain, etc. that you want in a true push-cutting knife would not be so great in the kitchen anyway. What you can notice is that the thinner the kitchen knife, the more acute and polished the edge, the less lateral movement is required (this is also why these knives need very frequent touchups and polishing to maintain these desired properties). But some lateral movement is usually going to be good. This is one reason that I think so many people are disappointed with the santoku design, because the flat edge almost forces the user to push cut.

It's interesting to see how different blades and different sharpening strategies do the same things. I have some acutely angled and highly polished Japanese knives that fly through food with very little lateral movement. I also have some less-acutely angled cast steel knives with big fat carbide crystals and a much lower level of polish that fly through food just as much, but require more lateral motion to "bite."

[paulraphael]

There are essentially three ways that a knife can cut.

There is the push cut, in which the blade has no side-to-side motion and force is applied downward.

There is the slice, in which the blade moves in a side-to-side motion and minimal force is applied downward.

There is the shearing cut, which involves both significant downward force and slicing motion.

I still use the term "push cut" more broadly than this, because the amount of slicing motion is typically so much less than what most people would associate with slicing or shearing. The closest thing most cooks do to pure push cutting is woodpecker-style shopping near the tip of the knife, for small things like garlic and shallots. But even this has a small shearing component. Just not nearly as much as the classic shearing motion you get from traditional European rocking.

It's true that there are only a handful of basic knife motions ... what sets apart someone with excellent knife skills is their mastery of the slight variations and their ability to apply them apropriately to different cutting situations. You'll see two cooks using the same basic skills, but one whose herbs never turn brown, whose cuts are consistent, who seems magically immune to starchy vegetables sticking to the blade and falling under it, and who finishes in half the time. Some of this might be years of experience, but a surprising amount is just the practice of more efficient techniques.

Edited January 16, 2009 by paulraphael (log)

[ChefCrash]

A knife technique worth mentioning is one that allows you to cut thin slices of fruits and vegetables with out having the slices stick and accumulate on the blade or fall all over.

This works with any knife. Hold the knife at ~ 45*, press the blade tip on the board and pull back without pivoting the knife. The cut slices will stay put.

Works great on small things like strawberries to large ones like apple and tomato halves.

[TimmDavis]

The FCI clases I have taken (and am taking) say to slice; that is, draw the knife either forward or backward (depending on what you are cutting) as you press down.  They are quite insistent about this.  I must say, I agree that it works a lot better.

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I'd have to agree with you. In Skills I & II this is the way were taught. And it works great for me. I used to be a "chopper" but I found that this method also gives you a more uniformed cut when it's all said and done.

[paulraphael]

A knife technique worth mentioning is one that allows you to cut thin slices of fruits and vegetables with out having the slices stick and accumulate on the blade or fall all over.

Yeah, that's basically slicing with the tip. It's great for anything sticky. The knife doesn't even need to be at that steep an angle, and it doesn't need to contact the board all the way through.

There are two components that make this efficient: knife speed, which keeps the food from grabbing, and the simple fact that by the time the slice is fully separated, there's very little blade in contact with it to stick. Probably just the tip, which flying full speed out the back door.

Anyone who suffers from sticking starchy foods and contemplates getting an unecessarily thick knife with grantons should really try this technique.

Edited January 18, 2009 by paulraphael (log)

[andiesenji]

I slice most things, especially those with a bit of "give" such as eggplant - I doubt anyone could successfully cut one into uniform slices using just the "chop" motion, unless the blade was incredibly sharp. (I sliced an eggplant earlier today, which gave me the reference.)

I keep all my knives very sharp. I have some blades that are designed for the chopping motion and use them accordingly.

I think it depends on the knife used and the results desired. If I am slicing or chopping something for the stewpot, I don't think that much about appearance. If slicing something where presentation is important I attend carefully to thickness and shape.

(Large batches requiring even slicing brings out the mandoline so I don't have to think about precision - just lazy, I guess).