Kitchen Torches

[devlin]

Okay, so I went to pick up a Bernzomatic torch today, but there were several types available.

Will the Bernzomatic micro torch (3 in 1) work? Or should I get the heavier duty torch?

Here's a link to the micro torch at Amazon. A review says Cooks Illustrated recommends it.

http://www.amazon.com/BERNZOMATIC-CORPORAT...F/dp/B000SM8TTY

←

I have the micro torch - I wanted the big one, but my husband was afraid I'd accidentally burn the house down . It works fine, but it's not all that quick to caramelize things. If you're looking for more instant results, the big torch may work better.

←

Damn. Guess I'll have to exchange it. Thanks!

[e_monster]

I would highly recommend the Iwatani butane blowtorch ( http://www.iwatani.com/asp/w_product/Produ...p?ProductID=133 ), it is half the price of the Bernzomatic mentioned up thread without any of the drawbacks. I find that hardware propane blowtorches leave an off flavor and cannot be held pointing down for the time necessary to sear the surface of more than one or two steaks. The Iwatani has neither of these problems and actually produces a larger and more consistent flame than the Bernzomatic I used to use.

Douglas,

How do these torches compare to the creme brulee torches one sees at places like Williams Sonoma? Is this more high-powered? I can't get a sense from the pictures how this compares size-wise to the little creme brulee torches one sees around.

Thanks

[DouglasBaldwin]

Douglas,

How do these torches compare to the creme brulee torches one sees at places like Williams Sonoma? Is this more high-powered? I can't get a sense from the pictures how this compares size-wise to the little creme brulee torches one sees around.

Thanks

The Iwatani blowtorch is in a completely different class from those gourmet shop creme brulee torches. The Iwatani blowtorch is at least as powerful as the best plumbing propane hardware torch, but in a more compact and kitchen friendly form. I still love mine and use it several times a week.

[nickrey]

I have both propane and super butane but use a cast-iron grill pan heated over a domestic wok burner because my wife complains of off-tastes on the meat when I use either of the torches.

Plus the pan allows you to put grill marks on the meat like it has been traditionally cooked.

[weinoo]

I, too, taste off-flavors when a torch is used.

[David A. Goldfarb]

I have a Messermeister butane torch (I think the same torch is sold under a few different brand names), and I've noticed the off flavor and find it is reduced or eliminated by keeping the torch a bit farther away from the food. You just have to experiment a bit with the flame setting and the distance.

Edited January 7, 2010 by David A. Goldfarb (log)

[paulraphael]

I haven't gotten off flavors from propane, but it's possible to get them. The culprit is unburned propane. It may have to do with the torch or the adjustment of it, or as David suggests, by holding the flame too close.

If you get any torch, make sure it has a pressure regulator. The bernzomatic 3000 linked above is one of the cheapest models that has one. Without a regulator, as the gas bottle gets about half empty, the fire will blow out every time you tilt the torch. And almost everything you do in the kitchen requires tilting the torch. If you get an unregulated head to save money, you'll end up with a collection of half empty bottles.

There are professional models that cost more than that one, but their main claim is that they burn hotter. I think all these torches are more than hot enough ... the challenge with them is to brown and crisp skin without scorching the surface. I'd pay more for a slightly less powerful torch, personally.

I'm happy with my propane plumber's torch for now. I'll consider replacing it with butane if I start tasting propane.

[KennethT]

I use a bernz-o-matic propane with a 3 foot hose-torch... I've had off flavors, but with a little playing around, you learn how to avoid them. The hose torch is great becasue you can hold it upside down and the flame never goes out, no matter how much gas is in the tank - the tank hangs from my belt with the included hook... also, you can really crank up the flame (which comes out in a swirl pattern) - which I've found to be the best way to get rid of the off flavors - but with the flame that high, you can't put it ridiculously close to the meat because it winds up burning the crap out of one spot... I find the best way is to set the torch full open and run it back and forth quickly across the meat - that way you get the most even browning... I got the hose-torch from teh home depot for like $30-40 or something like that...

[paulraphael]

Since the OP is about browning after sous vide, I'll add that I like torches for touch ups and for for putting caramel crusts on desserts, but I don't think they're all that great as a sole source of browning on meat. It's hard to get a crisp crust, and hard to do an even job.

For sous vided steak, I'd consider browning in a pan with butter (I like butter on a steak; if you don't you can use a neutral oil). For quick results with minimum risk of adding an overcooked veneer of meat, you can try doing it on medium heat after brushing with a malliard-enhancing wash (water with 2-4% glucose syrup, and 1/4% or so baking soda). Meat will brown beautifully and form a crisp crust very quickly.

I have a friend who swears by browning sous-vided steak in the deep fryer, but I haven't tried this. He said he once browned and plated perfect steaks for 50 people in ten minutes using this method.

Edited January 7, 2010 by paulraphael (log)

[thayes1c]

Dave Arnold addresses the issue of off flavors from propane over at Cooking Issues as part of his quixotic quest for the perfect turkey:

http://cookingissues.wordpress.com/2009/11/25/turkey-time-part-3-how-to-cook-it/

Apparently the issue is uncombusted propane and a screen between the meat and the torch catches or slows the propane enough to let it fully burn. Of course, he's using a 500,000 BTU roofing torch, but hey, it's Dave Arnold, what did you expect?

[Octaveman]

+1 on the Iwatani. I got my torch on ebay. There's an auction currently going on for $10. I've seen the gas canisters at Asain grocery stores.

Iwatani torch on ebay

[Kent Wang]

Ace Mart carries the Iwatani. I just bought one.

[OliverB]

I've never noticed any off flavors (or smells). I use a torch from Ace hardware. Initially I got a set with tank, torch, flint lighter and different tips, but those always went out when tilted down. (I use it for artwork and around the house too). Then I got a different top from Ace (their brand, but I'm sure just branded that way) that has an on/off switch, ignites when you press the switch down and you can even lock it down. This one I can hold any way I want, it never goes out and the flame is very hot and clear, indicating a good burn I think. Works very well on crusting up a pork shoulder after smoking it for a couple hours at 200-250.

I've seen the same setup on several photos from kitchens around the country and am quite happy with it.

But for some expensive SV steaks, I'd probably rather get a cast iron (grill?) pan and get it really hot, as indicated above.

[e_monster]

Douglas,

How do these torches compare to the creme brulee torches one sees at places like Williams Sonoma? Is this more high-powered? I can't get a sense from the pictures how this compares size-wise to the little creme brulee torches one sees around.

Thanks

The Iwatani blowtorch is in a completely different class from those gourmet shop creme brulee torches. The Iwatani blowtorch is at least as powerful as the best plumbing propane hardware torch, but in a more compact and kitchen friendly form. I still love mine and use it several times a week.

Thanks for the tip about the Iwatani. You are right it really packs a wallop nothing like the gourmet store creme brulee "toys" -- it is almost scary. It is more powerful than my Bernzomatic (I have their basic pencil flame torch that doesn' have an igniter) and quite adjustable (both amount of heat and flame width). The pictures on the web can make it seem deceptively like the little creme brulee "toys" but it definitely is much more powerful than them.

I was able to pick one up at a local restaurant supply store for $23 plus $10 for 4 cans of butane. The cans are not Iwatani brand (they are ChefMaster brand -- which seem to be stocked at a lot of stores around here). The people at the store insisted that these butane cans will work perfectly with the Iwatani (despite the warnings on the torch to only use Iwatani brand cans). I did a few tests and these cans seems to work perfectly. I will pick up an Iwatani butane can when I next run across them. (Some asian markets here stock them as Iwatani butane stove burners seem to be pretty popular).

I did a little comparison test "carmelizing" (which ended up being closer to burning) and the Iwatani won hands down vs. the Bernzomatic. This was the first time that I detected off-flavors from the Bernzomatic -- which I suspect was related to my adjusting the flame while I was torching the food. I also used it tonight on a nice thick ribeye that I cooked sous-vide for an hour at 128F.

As I read through the various threads here and elsewhere about using blowtorches for browning meat, I realize that there are a number of issues that get conflated and influence whether people think that they are useful/appropriate.

Since some chefs (Thomas Keller and Heston Blumenthal) that I really admire and respect (and who I think are very skilled) use blowtorches regularly, I think it is clear that in the right hands an appropriate blowtorch can do wonderful things. A lot of the bad results that people mention can be attributed to some combination of: poor choice of equipment, poorly behaving equipment, poor choice of task for the equipment, and unrefined technique.

In the brief time that I have had this torch, I am realizing that it will take time to learn to get optimal results with it (heck... it took me a lot of work to learn to control my stove and pans) and to figure out to what tasks it is well-suited.

Using a roofing torch to crisp poultry skin probably doesn't tell us anything about whether a more appropriate torch is useful for browning a tri-tip that was cooked sous-vide.

Like Douglas, I have found that torches are more useful for working with beef than poultry -- but I may take another shot at working with poultry in the future once I know this torch better.

--

For sous vided steak, I'd consider browning in a pan with butter (I like butter on a steak; if you don't you can use a neutral oil). For quick results with minimum risk of adding an overcooked veneer of meat, you can try doing it on medium heat after brushing with a malliard-enhancing wash (water with 2-4% glucose syrup, and 1/4% or so baking soda). Meat will brown beautifully and form a crisp crust very quickly.

If one is cooking steak sous-vide to achieve a nice rare or medium-rare all they way through, using medium-heat will undo what you achieved by cooking sous-vide. Cooking a steak from scratch using medium-heat you can get an awesome steak that is medium-rare and has a nice crust. But if you leave a medium-rare sous-vide steak in a medium pan long enough to develop a great crust, you will also be cooking more than just the surface of the steak and so you won't get that great effect of nice crust surrounding completely medium-rare meat. In my experience, when you cook a steak sous-vide to achieve medium-rare doneness, you want to use a very hot pan for a brief amount of time to develop the crust. And, yes, you can get it nicely browned without charring the outside in a blazing hot pan.

Dave Arnold addresses the issue of off flavors from propane over at Cooking Issues as part of his quixotic quest for the perfect turkey:

So far, I haven't succeeded in getting poultry skin crisped the way I'd like with a torch -- and it might not even be do-able. But Dave Arnold's example isn't dispositive. The fact that his torch gave off-flavors is an indication that the torch he used isn't appropriate for the task -- whether or not there is an appropriate torch. I'm not giving up on this yet -- but I suspect crisping with oil -- either pour-over the way he did or by putting it in a hot pan with peanut oil (the way Blumenthal does in his In Search of Perfection series) is probably the way to go.

Anyway, that was a long way of saying that the Iwatani so far has my thumbs up. Oh, and it feels a lot better in the hand than my propane torch.

[Joe Blowe]

It is more powerful than my Bernzomatic (I have their basic pencil flame torch that doesn' have an igniter)...

[...]

I did a little comparison test "carmelizing" (which ended up being closer to burning) and the Iwatani won hands down vs. the Bernzomatic.

Just to be clear, you're comparing a Bernzomatic pencil torch to an Iwatani cooking torch? And the Iwatani won? Well, I'll be damned

[e_monster]

It is more powerful than my Bernzomatic (I have their basic pencil flame torch that doesn' have an igniter)...

[...]

I did a little comparison test "carmelizing" (which ended up being closer to burning) and the Iwatani won hands down vs. the Bernzomatic.

Just to be clear, you're comparing a Bernzomatic pencil torch to an Iwatani cooking torch? And the Iwatani won? Well, I'll be damned

I appreciate your asking for clarification before rolling your eyes.

Jut to be clear: NO. The torch I am comparing it to is not a pencil torch. Here is a link

'Pencil flame' just describes the flame shape -- not the size. This torch is a full-sized plumbing torch. It has a powerful but narrow flame -- they are mostly used for plumbing solder. The narrowness of the flame makes it time-consuming to use on anything large. It has the same BTUs as the Berzomatic TS3000 but doesn't have the igniter and regulator in the head and the flame width is a narrow -- I actually don't know that the TS3000 has a different shaped flame -- it might suffer from the same deficit in terms of flame width.

Anything more powerful than the Iwatani wouldn't be terribly helpful. As it is the Iwatani is strong enough that you have to take care not to overdo it.

Edited January 15, 2010 by e_monster (log)

[Joe Blowe]

I appreciate your asking for clarification before rolling your eyes.

Clearly, your clarification is now clear

[paulraphael]

It has the same BTUs as the Berzomatic TS3000 but doesn't have the igniter and regulator in the head and the flame width is a narrow -- I actually don't know that the TS3000 has a different shaped flame -- it might suffer from the same deficit in terms of flame width.

Anything more powerful than the Iwatani wouldn't be terribly helpful. As it is the Iwatani is strong enough that you have to take care not to overdo it.

The 3000 has the same flame shape as the other torches I've used: narrow. The shape is helpful for touching things up, and a pain for browning large areas. If anything the flame is too hot. It's tricky to brown food without scorching the surface texture. I'd love a torch with about half the BTUs, and a flame that can adjust from narrow to wide.

In practice the 3000 is fine for the way I use it, though i can imagine a more perfect torch finding more uses in my kitchen.

[e_monster]

Here is my first attempt at searing a ribeye with the Iwatani after cooking the steak sous-vide to 128F (on the rare side of medium-rare). It clearly is going to take me some practice to get it so that it rivals what I can do with a pan -- but getting it right in a pan took a lot of practice too. It may be that using a super hot pan will be the best method but I want to work with the torch more before deciding since cleanup is a lot less of a hassle when using the torch.

The taste was great and the flavor definitely benefitted from the torching. But the crust is not as nice as when I pan sear (I didn't do any color correction so the colors are a bit washed out -- the meat was a deep red rare-medium-rare):

[paulraphael]

I think you'll get better and more even results in a pan. One approach would be a very hot pan with refined oil. I'd suggest trying a medium hot pan in butter, after brushing on weak solution of a reducing sugar and baking soda on the meat. This will give you a very well browned crust quickly, without charring, and without any of that intrusion of well done meat you can see in the top photo. Save the torch for touch-ups.

[infernooo]

Anyone see an issue using one of these with Propylene (as opposed to Butane or Propane) ?

http://www.bernzomatic.com/products/product-detail.aspx?xmid=6957

[paulraphael]

e-monster asked if I'd clarify a couple of my comments.

My main thought was that for large pieces of meat, it will always be easier to use a pan (or griddle or plancha or a salamander) than a torch. Torch flames are so hot that it's hard to put a crisp crust on proteins; before you can get a deep maillard layer you're likely to scorch the outermost part of the food. And the flames are so small that it's just inneficient to do a whole steak or roast. Touch-ups, sure. Scallops, fine. But a steak, I think, will always be unsatisfactory.

I'm curious to know if anyone has contrary experience.

I also wasn't clear about why I suggested a medium-hot pan. Generally, you'd expect a thicker layer of overcooked meat at the surface when searing on lower heat. But if you use a maillardizing wash (reducing sugar and alkali), and sear in butter, you can put a crust on the meat so quickly on medium heat that this isn't an issue. The reason to not go higher is that the butter would burn, and with the wash so would the meat surface.

A blazing hot pan and refined oil are still a perfectly reasonable option, but since this thread is all about tweaking I wanted to throw that out as a possible improvement. I haven't experimented with the technique enough to know if there are drawbacks (off flavors, etc.). So far i haven't found any.

[e_monster]

Paul,

Can you give the recipe/proportions of the solution that you recommend?

Also, how long do you typically need to leave the steak in the pan for a suitable crust to develop with this method.

I plan on doing some more experimentation. I am going to work on the torch technique to see if I can do a better job than I got on the first attempt. It may turn out to be a bust but I am inclined to explore since there are some well-respected chefs that use them.

[paulraphael]

here's what I've experimented with, based on a formula someone posted in another thread:

-100g water

-2 to 4g glucose syrup or corn syrup

-0.25g baking soda

a shortcut for small quantities:

mix 1/4 tsp honey or glucose syrup and a small pinch of baking soda into a shotglass of water.

Sauté in a medium-hot pan with butter. Pan should be hot enough to brown butter but not blacken it.

The crust forms quickly, though I haven't timed it.

[Kent Wang]

For fish (like salmon), I have trouble handling it without it flaking apart, even when cooked at 116F. So putting it into a pan to sear is unwieldy. I've tried the Iwatani torch on it and can only get a very thin crust. I'll have to try the glucose wash.