I'm opening a restaurant...Oh S&%T!

[RAHiggins1]

Nest...right, that's what it is. 

So on the cafe front, today as I've shared with friends that I'm taking over, I've heard three times that people are dissatisfied with the cafe because of small portions.  I knew this might be a problem.  They even named a sandwich after me because I always needed two sandwiches to fill myself.  But now that its my cafe, this is a problem.  I've been thinking of filler foods - homemade crackers or such.  It'll have to be something fun and quality.  Sorry to have so many issues going at once, but isn't that life in the biz?!

And, I met with a Sysco rep.  It was odd since I've spent years saying how terrible Sysco is.  My first opinion is that their inventory is much more diverse than my naysaying gives them credit for.  I've asked for prices and they will be in the running.

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Do you already include the perfunctory pickle with the sandwich? I'm sure you are aware that every morsel impacts the bottom line.

Are there any other shops or restaurants close by that you are on good terms with and can share orders to get better service delivered?

[Tri2Cook]

I've heard three times that people are dissatisfied with the cafe because of small portions.  I knew this might be a problem.  They even named a sandwich after me because I always needed two sandwiches to fill myself. 

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True story as witnessed by me. There was a sandwich shop in an area where I used to live. They sold good but smallish sandwiches of the sort you mentioned (you might need two unless you were dieting or a very light eater). They sold these sandwiches for, let's say $4.99 (because I don't remember the exact number). A butcher shop in the same area decided to add a deli counter to the business that would also make sandwiches to order. He knew all about the "place with the small sandwiches". He decided to use 8oz. of meat in his sandwiches (they were HUGE, eating one was a challenge) instead of the 2oz.-ish the other place used. No filler, no fluff. Just massive sandwiches that were good. He sold his sandwiches for about $1 more than the sandwich shop. Word got out. People thought he was crazy selling them that cheap. The people in the other sandwich shop were thrilled. "He'll never make it doing that". He began to sell a lot of sandwiches. The word spread even more. He began selling so many sandwiches he had to hire additional help so that he could tend to his butchery. The other shop wouldn't budge on what it was doing. It became a downward spiral where eventually they couldn't afford to compete with him if they wanted to and they closed the shop.

More sales at a slightly smaller margin will take you further than a couple crackers and a pickle. If the customer base says the portions are too small, make them bigger.

[RAHiggins1]

I've heard three times that people are dissatisfied with the cafe because of small portions.  I knew this might be a problem.  They even named a sandwich after me because I always needed two sandwiches to fill myself. 

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True story as witnessed by me. There was a sandwich shop in an area where I used to live. They sold good but smallish sandwiches of the sort you mentioned (you might need two unless you were dieting or a very light eater). They sold these sandwiches for, let's say $4.99 (because I don't remember the exact number). A butcher shop in the same area decided to add a deli counter to the business that would also make sandwiches to order. He knew all about the "place with the small sandwiches". He decided to use 8oz. of meat in his sandwiches (they were HUGE, eating one was a challenge) instead of the 2oz.-ish the other place used. No filler, no fluff. Just massive sandwiches that were good. He sold his sandwiches for about $1 more than the sandwich shop. Word got out. People thought he was crazy selling them that cheap. The people in the other sandwich shop were thrilled. "He'll never make it doing that". He began to sell a lot of sandwiches. The word spread even more. He began selling so many sandwiches he had to hire additional help so that he could tend to his butchery. The other shop wouldn't budge on what it was doing. It became a downward spiral where eventually they couldn't afford to compete with him if they wanted to and they closed the shop.

More sales at a slightly smaller margin will take you further than a couple crackers and a pickle. If the customer base says the portions are too small, make them bigger.

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That also is an excellent point. Put more one the sammich and add a buck to the price AND give them the pickle.

[MikeHartnett]

I also think it's worth considering some sort of 'signature' side item. There was a sandwich place near me growing up that sold asiago cheese bread with their sandwiches, and everyone I knew went there mostly for that bread. The fact that the sandwiches weren't very good eventually sent them on their downward spiral, but I'm sure that's not a problem you have.

My point is that it may help to have an item that comes with every sandwich that gets people talking. That way, even two people who don't like the same sandwich will have a common thing to discuss about your place.

[gfron1]

This is all very helpful. I know that each add-on is cutting into the margin, but we're already seeing the impact of over-frugality - what will the market bare?! We have a large retiree community who is just fine with the portion sizes. But up in the mountains our metabolisms are a bit faster so we do tend to eat more.

A 'for example' - her veggie sandwich is five 5" strips of roasted zucchini, 3-5 small pieces of roasted red bell, pesto spread, slice and a half of cheese, toasted on regular sized loaf bread. Its good, but small and almost no protein. I'd be hungry before I wiped my lips. Cost $5.25

I haven't costed her recipes yet, but my guess is it costs her less than 50 cents in materials. So even doubling the filling takes it to $1 in materials plus the overhead. So let's say this sandwich costs $2 to make, that's still a decent profit. Her only garnish right now is a quarter of an apple sliced into three pieces. Its all served on a slip of deli paper in a plastic tray. And there's the napkin, water cup (if they don't buy a soda), fork if the sandwich gets too messy...

Next week I'm going to enter her materials into a spreadsheet and convert them into cost per gram, and then do some tests on the menu items. I really want to know what the margin is here.

BTW, "The Rob" is double the meat with an extra layer of bread in the center of the sandwich. Its a big'un.

[Tri2Cook]

Put more one the sammich and add a buck to the price AND give them the pickle.

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True enough. I didn't mean that to sound anti-pickle and cracker like it ended up appearing. It was a long winded way of saying "give the people what they want and they will come". Ya gotsta have the pickle.

Edited July 12, 2008 by Tri2Cook (log)

[gfron1]

I also think it's worth considering some sort of 'signature' side item.

I agree. I haven't come up with a universal item that could go with a sandwich as easily as a salad or soup. For example, you mention a bread - I don't think I would want a slice of bread served in addition to my sandwich. I was thinking fancy cracker, but maybe its more of a salad - potato, pasta, fruit...whatever, but seasoned to be my style.

[MikeHartnett]

Agree with the no on the bread. That was the best signature idea I could come up with when I posted, but probably led to the demise of that place. Carb overload. A really good potato salad would be good. So many places make it as an afterthought, and it usually isn't very good. I just made the potato salad from last month's Cook's Illustrated, and I was reminded of how good potato salad can be.

[RAHiggins1]

Agree with the no on the bread.  That was the best signature idea I could come up with when I posted, but probably led to the demise of that place.  Carb overload.  A really good potato salad would be good.  So many places make it as an afterthought, and it usually isn't very good.  I just made the potato salad from last month's Cook's Illustrated, and I was reminded of how good potato salad can be.

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How about a minature dessert that would wake up their sweet tooth and make them look closer at your other creations.

[Kerry Beal]

I like some spiced crabapple or pear slices with a sandwich.

[onrushpam]

I always want a pickle with my sandwich, but many of my lunch companions are anti-pickle. At the sandwich shop we all love, they used to give a pickle with every sandwich. A couple of years ago, they put a little sign on the counter where you order. It says, "Tell us if you want a pickle!"

So, I get my pickle and sometimes I tell an anti-pickle companion to ask for one, too. (The shop has good pickles!) As a result, they are accomodating the pickle lovers, while not seeing dozens of pickles dumped into the trash. I think that little sign is genius! Their lunch meal-deal is a sandwich, a pickle (if you choose), a bag of chips (huge selection) and a drink. They also have a soup every day. They recently discontinued their soup/half sandwich lunch special, which I loved.

Another favorite sandwich shop (more expensive) gives everybody a pickle. Their "meal deal" includes a sandwich, a pickle, and a choice of very good potato salad or a small bag of chips/pretzels and a drink. They also have a soup/half sandwich or soup/salad deal.

Both of these places are locally owned, but part of small regional chain operations. They use high-quality ingredients, have good bread and good service. The first place is more of a sub shop (though they also offer soup, good salads and non-sub sandwiches). The more expensive place is also a bagel place, doing decent bagels, breakfast sandwiches and good coffee, along with their lunch business. Neither is open past mid-afternoon.

I think the idea of offering some sort of mini sweet is great! I'd gladly pass on a bag of chips for a good little bite of something sweet at the end. You might even consider offering both choices... sandwich/salad side or sandwich/sweet or all three for the big eaters.

Both these places have been around a long time and are packed at lunch... to the point it can be hard find parking and you sometimes have to wait in a fairly long line. They are near each other, near but not immediately next to a university campus, not at all near any big office complexes or downtown. Both have terrible parking arrangements. So, the people who go there put up with a bit of inconvenience. They are doing something right.

Oh, and this might not fit your image, but the sub shop place and my favorite pizza/pasta/calzone place offer a 10-20% discount to all law enforcement and active military peeps. Both those places get a huge lunch business from that. All those good-looking guys in uniforms draw in a fair number of women who just like to look!

[judiu]

AHEM. Rob, about the guests at the wedding; how many hardcore bikers are in the mix, and how may 'civilians' ? I know my bikers, believe me, and three of them can eat you out of house and home in a couple of hours. You may need to rethink the quantity of the food based on that. They can also put away an UNHOLY amount of alcohol. Best of luck on this, your novice venture, and NEVER underestimate the appetite of the riders! At a friends wedding, with about 150 guests, nearly all bikers, the ORNAMENTAL roasted pig got totally devoured. YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED!

[gfron1]

That's a scary thought and I'll ask the family tomorrow at the test meal. I was more worried about the cowboys eating habits than the bikers. The odd things we have to consider in the business

[judiu]

Rob, a lot of the appetite thing with the bikers varies. It depends on whether you're dealing with 'hardcore' or 'recreational' bikers. The hardcore variety are the hardest to keep satisfied, those are the ones that can triple your food and booze estimates. The 'recreational' variety are more easy to deal with, and may only increase your estimates by half, but if it's a mix, go for the "overfeed" every time! HTH !

[gfron1]

I can see it now...scrawny Rob walks up to the biggest, burliest, hairiest biker, "Excuse me m'am, are you recreational or hardcore?"

I'll have a 50/50 chance of living!

[Tri2Cook]

I can see it now...scrawny Rob walks up to the biggest, burliest, hairiest biker, "Excuse me m'am, are you recreational or hardcore?"

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Edited July 12, 2008 by Tri2Cook (log)

[Sugarella]

I can see it now...scrawny Rob walks up to the biggest, burliest, hairiest biker, "Excuse me m'am, are you recreational or hardcore?"

I'll have a 50/50 chance of living!

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....especially if he isn't a m'am, and those are just "beer boobs."

I also think it's worth considering some sort of 'signature' side item.

I agree. I haven't come up with a universal item that could go with a sandwich as easily as a salad or soup. For example, you mention a bread - I don't think I would want a slice of bread served in addition to my sandwich. I was thinking fancy cracker, but maybe its more of a salad - potato, pasta, fruit...whatever, but seasoned to be my style.

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I always want a pickle with my sandwich, but many of my lunch companions are anti-pickle.  At the sandwich shop we all love, they used to give a pickle with every sandwich.  A couple of years ago, they put a little sign on the counter where you order.  It says, "Tell us if you want a pickle!" 

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I always want a pickle, but for the anti-pickle crowd you could try other items marinated in lieu of one, like diakon, carrot, mushrooms, etc. You can make all kinds of yummy things, and customers can get the choice of which side they'd like. Or even a mammoth stuffed olive. Think antipasti. I have to say I do really like the idea of a side of potato salad, too, though.

I think the idea of offering some sort of mini sweet is great!  I'd gladly pass on a bag of chips for a good little bite of something sweet at the end. 

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A cookie?

Edited July 12, 2008 by Sugarella (log)

[heidih]

I always want a pickle, but for the anti-pickle crowd you could try other items marinated in lieu of one, like diakon, carrot, mushrooms, etc.

I like that idea- plus it could create another product for your store.

Awesome reporting by the way. Enjoying it thoroughly and learning alot.

[prasantrin]

About the sandwiches...this is a picture of the lunch set at one of my favourite bakeries.

It's a croque monsieur, but their quiche set looks the same, as does the French sandwich set (I can't remember what it's called, but they have some very simple French sandwiches on baguettes). The salad is very lightly dressed, and at 1 o'clock, you can see some mini treats. With the lunch set, they give little tastes of some of the sweets they sell (usually a couple of small tasting-sized pieces of things like pound cake, cookies, madeleine, fruit cake, etc., but if they have something like a very small slice of their very yummy chocolate tart, then it will only be the one piece).

The mini treats change all the time, depending on what is available. It's a great way to get people to try some of their goods they may not otherwise try. In that picture, for example, there is a slice of French bread covered with caramel and baked. I'd never have bought those, but after trying one with my lunch set, I discovered I loved them, and I have bought many bags of them since.

That lunch set, by the way, was Y750 and included the drink.

[gfron1]

Hmmmm...a madeleine! I really want something that fits our style which is why I can't fathom doing chips and salsa or such. And I do like the idea of a small something from what I sell to entice other purchases. But, I really like the idea of a sweet and/or savory madeleine. Its the perfect style-fit for us. And while I don't sell them now, I certainly could.

I've also been wondering about a salad as a regular not an option. A fist full of greens with a few toppers. Fills the plate. For those of you in the biz, do you pitch many side salads when they are included on the plates (v. not an add-on)?

[MikeHartnett]

Personally, I find that salads served on the side don't get my attention. Maybe if it was a really, really interesting salad, but for the most part I ignore them as just "filling the plate." I understand you're trying to fill the meal out and leave people with enough food, but I think a miniature dessert is a very interesting idea, because it isn't done a whole lot (with the exception of cookies), and it also gives you an outlet for your baking, which can bring in additional business on that end, rather than simply doing the duty of plate-filling.

[Tri2Cook]

I've also been wondering about a salad as a regular not an option.  A fist full of greens with a few toppers.  Fills the plate.  For those of you in the biz, do you pitch many side salads when they are included on the plates (v. not an add-on)?

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We usually offer a choice of salad, soup or fries with our lunch sandwich and wrap combos. I'd say we probably do a pretty much equal amount of each over the course of a year with a slight advantage to soup (long, cold winters here). We also include a piece of fresh fruit or yogurt and iced tea, hot tea or coffee. Since they pick what they want we rarely throw anything away. The combos are popular with local businesses. They call, order x number of combos and we have them ready for whenever they want.

Another thing that can boost the economy is contracts with local businesses, etc. Of course you are already aware of that with your sushi contract. It can really make a difference, especially during the slower periods. We have a contract to provide breakfast (which we don't even do at the restaurant but it was part of the contract so I do it), lunch and dinner to the local police detachment for the prisoner meals. We also have a contract to do dinner for 25 every thursday night for the local chapter of the Rotary Club. We do pizzas for 2 elementary schools every friday during the school year. They send slips home with the kids on monday, the parents mark how many slices of pizza they want their kid to have on friday and send the money, the school calls us and we give them to them at a significant discount. They use it as a fundraiser for school trips, etc. It works out good for the school and us. The kids like it too. The owner of the restaurant is a member of the local chamber of commerce so we take advantage of that by having special sheets and the menu faxed to local businesses on a regular basis. It's out there, you just have to go get it... and then give up any form of social life and sleep to maintain it.

[gfron1]

and then give up any form of social life and sleep to maintain it.

It's funny that you should say this today. For the first three years that we were in town, we were invited to so many parties and get togethers. Fairly recently we must have been bumped from the A list, and our guess is that it's because we're already at the store so much. Today I heard about a party that we always have gone to and this year we didn't even know about it. Since we're not out as much, people don't think about us, and so we don't get invited. With the restaurant, we'll be even less out and about. We enjoy our faux celebrity and have built much of our business on it, so I hope we can find a way to stay out there.

[Tri2Cook]

I'm exaggerating a bit. I still find time to experiment with food, I like knowing how to do things even if it's not the sort of stuff I do at work. I find time for my cycling and mountain biking. I've put triathlon on the back burner for now, I really don't have time for proper training without giving up things that are more important to me so I'm fine with that. I have time for late parties and things of that sort, I just rarely choose to. I'm kinda boring. I sit at home and read or stay at work after closing and play with food most nights.

[gfron1]

Here I am at 5:30, having been awake in bed for over an hour, my mind going through the checklist for tonight's sampling. I'll report out on that later - lot's of problems to work through related to having a kitchen handy for this meal, but I won't for the cater.

But right now I'm thinking about how my current supplier, Zanios, is charging me $2/lb for brisket - just standard brisket and Sysco is offering me Niman Ranch brisket at $1.80/lb. That's a no-brainer, but I've also heard these companies like to suck you in with a good price, then raise the rates once they have you. Any one have that experience?