Restaurant Magazine's World's 50 Best '08

[sunbeam]

For what it's worth I've visited 16 of the top 50. And it isn't worth very much.

I agree with the rest of your post. It's a list. 700 or so voters. 3,500 votes. a bunch of restaurants and then the arguments start. Even if you had the most rigorous voting system ever devised by man or beast the list still wouldn't be definitive.

The over-blown, ludicrous self-importance of people whinging here is frankly breath taking.

Get a grip.

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To accuse other people of 'ludicrous self-importance' for commenting on a list called the 50 best restaurants in the world is an impressive degree of hypocrisy. And then just to cap it you seem to be simultaneously arguing that the purpose is to provoke debate and then complaining about said debate.

Get a grip.

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Agreed. Taking over ownership of Locatelli's wig seems to have gone to his head in more ways than one.

S

[jayrayner]

For what it's worth I've visited 16 of the top 50. And it isn't worth very much.

I agree with the rest of your post. It's a list. 700 or so voters. 3,500 votes. a bunch of restaurants and then the arguments start. Even if you had the most rigorous voting system ever devised by man or beast the list still wouldn't be definitive.

The over-blown, ludicrous self-importance of people whinging here is frankly breath taking.

Get a grip.

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To accuse other people of 'ludicrous self-importance' for commenting on a list called the 50 best restaurants in the world is an impressive degree of hypocrisy. And then just to cap it you seem to be simultaneously arguing that the purpose is to provoke debate and then complaining about said debate.

Get a grip.

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Agreed. Taking over ownership of Locatelli's wig seems to have gone to his head in more ways than one.

S

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Locatelli's cut his hair. I think he doesn't want to be mistaken for me anymore.

And yes, I was the chair of the UK panel. Have also written two posts on it over at Word of Mouth, which point up all the issues and also, as I say, point out that the list is just the compilation of various opinions on a grand scale. It's interesting. It's a debating point. The end of western civilisation, or proof of some awful conspiracy to warp the public perception of restaurants, it most certainly ain't.

[Matthew Grant]

I am intrigued as to the absence of Marc Veyrat on this list - surely he should be ranking near the top, or at least in the top 100?

It is somewhat annoying that Mugaritz was catapulted to the top. Now it will be impossible to get a booking. So much for my trip to Spain.

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Lucky I'm already booked then

[Roger le goéland]

Jay, I would disagree with you - the list IS important, in that it is almost impossible to get a place at any place that makes it to the top (unless of course you write regularly in a major British paper).

Admittedly these places would be full most of the time anyway, by virtue of their quality/reputation amongst foodies, but there's a difference between RHR's "book 2 months in advance" and elBulli's half a million people trying for a few thousand tables, scrambling to send the email a few seconds after the reservations open!

[camdan]

St John at 16 is a bit of a joke. I love St John, but food-wise it isn't that good. Nice to see L'enclume taking the readers' award though, that's a restaurant that seems to be shockingly underrated; I preferred it to the Fat Duck, although I should probably go to them both another 10 or 20 times before arriving at any kind of definite conclusion.

[spanielking]

Well, if I claim L'Enclume. theres 1 I have been to. woop! Are'nt list bollocks. I guess they make a good reference point, but like everything, its purely subjective.

PS Sorry if I was being a bit blonde and not linking the list with the restaurant mag.

[Scott]

People were saying the same (its boring, shouldn't the rules be changed?) about the International Wine Competition in the nineties when Oddbins won the top merchant award for many successive years. The changes that have happened to Oddbins and in the wine market since then made the correction.

Doubtless the same will happen with El Bulli.

Nothing lasts for ever.

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oh c'mon no one ever cared about those awards either.

[Scott]

And Mugaritz number four (YEEEAH!)

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no.4?

maybe a touch underrated too

[Gavin Convery]

St John at 16 is a bit of a joke. I love St John, but food-wise it isn't that good. Nice to see L'enclume taking the readers' award though, that's a restaurant that seems to be shockingly underrated; I preferred it to the Fat Duck, although I should probably go to them both another 10 or 20 times before arriving at any kind of definite conclusion.

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Hmm, L'enclume....don't get me started....I hated it during a recent visit. Too pretentious for me without the balance of great taste. Cartmel is lovely though...

Now I can't believe Can Roca has gone down! Superlative restaurant - that is how you do pretension with proper taste!

And how can we take any poll seriously where the UK arm is run by someone who won the Weakest Link (and looked very pleased with himself too!)!

[sunbeam]

It's interesting. It's a debating point. The end of western civilisation, or proof of some awful conspiracy to warp the public perception of restaurants, it most certainly ain't.

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Of course, merely restaurants that's all, the majority of which most of us will never visit in a month of Sunday supplements. I think this has strayed from my original assertion that this has all become a bit predictable and thus dull. By all means carry on having the competition but can't something be done to make it a bit more interesting? It's sponsored by bottled water (aren't we supposed to condemn bottled water for being needlessy air freighted around the globe btw?) and I prefer sparkling to flat.

(I think in Locatelli's case, like Bourdain, he's realised he's a bit too old to carry that 'wild and crazy guy' hairstyle off successfully any longer. He's gone for the rather more modern, but still dated 'life commando' look which I suppose must be easier to live with in a hot kitchen)

S

[Tim Hayward]

(I think in Locatelli's case, like Bourdain, he's realised he's a bit too old to carry that  'wild and crazy guy' hairstyle off successfully any longer. He's gone for the rather more modern, but still dated 'life commando' look which  I suppose must be easier to live with in a hot kitchen)

S

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There are only two reasons a chef might shave his head... MPW and MPB.

[CheGuevara]

St John at 16 is a bit of a joke. I love St John, but food-wise it isn't that good. Nice to see L'enclume taking the readers' award though, that's a restaurant that seems to be shockingly underrated; I preferred it to the Fat Duck, although I should probably go to them both another 10 or 20 times before arriving at any kind of definite conclusion.

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that was one of the first thoughts when i read the list - as much as i adore st. john, it is ludicrous to see it at 16.

following on some previous posts: for all the fanfare surrounding this yearly list and the huge marketing event it has become for San Pellegrino, it is no surprise readers feel it lacks seriousness.

-che

[Jamsie]

How the f*ck did Radiohead - The bends get above The Stone Roses - The Stone Roses?

Are where were the Beatles in the top 10?

Too much prog rock for my liking in this list

[Andy Lynes]

And I see Bubonique's seminal Trance Arse Vol 3 was overlooked, again.

[Simon_S]

To be honest, the positions on the list are not the real problem for me (although obviously I don't agree with them), it's more that the methodology is so flawed. It could be my nerdy maths-side coming out, but there it is.

[Tim Hayward]

St John at 16 is a bit of a joke. I love St John, but food-wise it isn't that good. Nice to see L'enclume taking the readers' award though, that's a restaurant that seems to be shockingly underrated; I preferred it to the Fat Duck, although I should probably go to them both another 10 or 20 times before arriving at any kind of definite conclusion.

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that was one of the first thoughts when i read the list - as much as i adore st. john, it is ludicrous to see it at 16.

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With respect, I disagree.

It was my first time at the awards and the thing that really stuck out for me came from the (seemingly interminable) presentation. We sat through descriptions of each winner, usually including a description and a slide of some signature dishes.

The first thing you need to do is adopt some kind of mental filter that removes terms like 'fresh, local and seasonal' or you'd frankly just have to open your veins.

The second thing you notice is the almost total dominance of deconstructed cooking.

I have a theory that deconstructed cooking really fits symbiotically with the booming 'fine dining' business. Back in the day, the only thing a chef could do to alter a great ingredient was to dismantle it by cutting or stewing or to apply sauces to it. Deconstruction means that flavours are routinely extracted, given new form and recombined... something that gives name chefs and famous restaurants so much more scope to make the innovative, attention grabbing combinations that build brands.

You can't make a global name in 'fine dining' just by knocking out a better chicken albufera than the next guy.

What the awards made me think was that we are pretty much accepting that deconstructed cooking is what it's all about now - not that it's a movement or an idea but that it's the whole bloody shooting match. From now on... 'Top Restaurant'=deconstructed food.

Which, I guess, is more than part of the reason, to go back to the original thread, that the awards now look to be annually carved up between Heston and the whole of Spain.

I'm bloody glad St John was in there. It's my favourite restaurant anywhere in the world. It's long been well known that chefs love it* - and, after all they made up much of the panel.

If we're going to accept that the whole future of restaurant dining is about deconstruction, well terrific. We should all be pleased with the results and start learning Spanish so we can understand the speeches.

If, as I do, you believe there's got to be more to it than the last 'movement' then I'd have to ask one question....

If, for the sake of argument, the future of restaurants was not solely deconstructed cuisine, then what would the world's top restaurants look like?

For me the answer is St John.

ETA: Don't get me wrong. My second favourite restaurant in the world is the FD. It's not like I have it in for the deconstructors but, IMHOP, getting Fergus in at 16 wasn't even vaguely enough to balance out.

(*Last year, the winners went to St John after the awards - this year it was GQS. Poor bastards. After all that mucked-about-with crap they probably needed a decent meal )

Edited April 23, 2008 by Tim Hayward (log)

[Andy Lynes]

We sat through descriptions of each winner, usually including a description and a slide of some signature dishes.

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Weren't they good - well, at least some of them. So well written I thought...

If you look at the list, many of the restaurants do broadly fit your "deconstructed" heading, but many do not - Chez Panisse, Die Schwarzwaldstube, Le Meurice, Nobu London, Dal Pescatore, Le Gavroche, Le Bernadin, Hakkasan, Alain Ducasse au Plaza Athenee, Jean Georges, Daniel, Rockpool Fish, Le Louis XV, Robuchon, Gordon Ramsay, Per Se and The French Laundry.

I think time is fast running out for restaurants to be able to grab attention and be innovative through "deconstructed" cooking - they are becoming as interchangable as steak houses (and yes, I'm sure there are huge differences between steak houses but you know what I mean).

[ameiden]

There's an 'exclusive' interview with Ferran Adrià in today's Guardian (http://lifeandhealth.guardian.co.uk/food/story/0,,2275500,00.html.) in which he reveals that the restaurant doesn't make any money.

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One can well imagine that El Bulli is not a profitable business but I have heard rumours that it is heavily sponsored by the food industry, large enterprises who are interested in what else is possible and who will seek Adria's advice on a regular basis. I cannot imagine that he would go into all this stupendous trouble to then just live off his booksales.

[Prawncrackers]

Not one of the world's top 100 restaurants in Japan???

Yeah... right!

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Once again, Bukhara is rated the top restaurant in Asia. I don't think it is even the top restaurant in India and probably not even New Delhi, let alone all of Asia. While it is not bad, I do not understand its stature. Last I knew Japan and China were still considered parts of Asia.

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Damn, i'm off to Tokyo in a fortnight and now you're telling me there's not a restaurant there to compare to even the lowest on that list! No seriously, if a couple of Zumas and a Nobu can make it....

[Mumin]

Could not find anything on Restaurant magazine 50 best restaurants 2008

Here is the list so we can start arguing on what is right and what is wrong.

Congratulations to Rene Redzepi and Noma that is now among the 10 best in the world.

http://www.theworlds50best.com/2008_list.html

1 El Bulli Spain World's Best Restaurant Best in Europe

2 The Fat Duck UK

3 Pierre Gagnaire France

4 up 3 Mugaritz Spain Chefs Choice

5 down 1 The French Laundry USA Best Restaurant in Americas

6 up Per Se USA

7 down 1 Bras France

8 up 2 Arzak Spain

9 down 4 Tetsuya's Austraila Best Restaurant in Australasia

10 up 5 Noma Denmark

11 up 10 L'Astrance France

12 Gambero Rosso Italy

13 up 11 Restaurant Gordon Ramsay UK

14 down 1 L'Atelier de Joël Robuchon France

15 down 7 Le Louis XV France

16 up 18 St JohnUK Highest Climber

17 up 1 Jean Georges USA

18 up 2 Alain Ducasse au Plaza Athénée France

19 Hakkasan UK

20 up 6 Le Bernardin USA

21 up 15 Alinea USA

22 up 6 Le Gavroche UK

23 up 8 Dal Pescatore Italy

24 up 5 Le Cinq France

25 Troisgros France

26 down 15 El Celler de Can Roca Spain

27 Re-entry L'Hotel de Ville - Philippe Rochat Switzerland

28 down 14 Hof Van Cleve Belgium

29 down 2 Martin Berasategui Spain

30 down 13 Nobu London

UK

31 down 9 Can Fabes Spain

32 up 9 Enoteca Pinchiorri Italy

33 Re-entry Le Meurice France

34 New entry Vendome Germany Highest New Entry

35 Re-entry Die Schwarzwaldstube Germany

36 down 20 Le Calandre Italy

37 up 3 Chez Panisse USA

38 down 8 Charlie Trotter's USA

39 down 4 Chez Dominique Finland

40 down 2 D.O.M Brazil

41 down 9 Daniel USA

42 up 3 Oud Sluis Netherlands

43 down 1 Ristorante Cracco Italy

44 New entry Asador Etxebarri Spain

45 up 5 Les Ambassadeurs France

46 down 3 L'Arpege France

47 Re-Entry Tantris Germany

48 down 9 Oaxen Skärgärdskrog Sweden

49 down 16Rockpool Austrailia

50 down 3 Le Quartier Francais South Africa Best in Middle East and Africa

Edited April 23, 2008 by Mumin (log)

[olicollett]

Not one of the world's top 100 restaurants in Japan???

Yeah... right!

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Once again, Bukhara is rated the top restaurant in Asia. I don't think it is even the top restaurant in India and probably not even New Delhi, let alone all of Asia. While it is not bad, I do not understand its stature. Last I knew Japan and China were still considered parts of Asia.

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Damn, i'm off to Tokyo in a fortnight and now you're telling me there's not a restaurant there to compare to even the lowest on that list! No seriously, if a couple of Zumas and a Nobu can make it....

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I think this is probably the biggest oversight of the awards.

[Tim Hayward]

...Chez Panisse, Die Schwarzwaldstube, Le Meurice, Nobu London, Dal Pescatore, Le Gavroche, Le Bernadin, Hakkasan, Alain Ducasse au Plaza Athenee, Jean Georges, Daniel, Rockpool Fish, Le Louis XV, Robuchon, Gordon Ramsay, Per Se and The French Laundry...

Largely un-deconstructed, I grant you... but don't you find them all a bit, you know, foreign?

If nothing else, the winner's acceptance speech has confirmed my resolution to buy British.

"Cry God! For Heston, England and St John!"

[Andy Lynes]

Largely un-deconstructed, I grant you... but don't you find them all a bit, you know, foreign?

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The clue to that particular conundrum may be found in the title of the awards. And hey, aren't we all just dwellers in the 21st century global village etc etc

[Tim Hayward]

The clue to that particular conundrum may be found in the title of the awards. And hey, aren't we all just dwellers in the 21st century global village etc etc

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Speak for yourself, Mate. I reckon there's a wide-open market opportunity for 'The Al Murray of Food Writing'.

[Daniel]

Alinea is my favorite of this list.

Edited April 23, 2008 by Daniel (log)