Fish Sauce

[tejon]

I've been trying to learn more about Thai food in general and have been experimenting with different ingredients, to varying degrees of success. The first thing I purchased was fish sauce, as it is a basic to just about any Thai recipe. That just about put me off further experimentation all together - this stuff was truly vile. Even my husband, who loves Thai food of all sorts, said it wasn't any good.

I'd like to dive into laarb and the many wonders of Thai cuisine....but I need a good fish sauce to start. What are your favorite brands? I know I can count on this group to steer me the right way on all things Thai .

Edited April 6, 2004 by tejon (log)

[tommy]

Three Crab brand is recommended by Ming Tsai, and by me. it's widely available as well.

[bigwino]

Golden Boy is another very well respected brand.

[thursdaynext]

Squid brand is pretty easy to find.

[Oceangroveguy]

I use the Squid brand, too. I think (and please someone correct me if I am wrong) all such fish sauce smells vile, because the stuff stinks until you cook with it....

[tommy]

I use the Squid brand, too. I think (and please someone correct me if I am wrong) all such fish sauce smells vile, because the stuff stinks until you cook with it....

it is pungent. however, i mostly use it in its raw form, as a dipping sauce. can't get enough of it.

[jimgeralds]

My favorite fish sauce (nam pla) is the Tiparos brand. I get mine from Thailand but I have seen it available online. Fish sauce is potent stuff and will always smell strong-but it has such a deep savory flavor that makes Thai food come alive! Be careful how much you use and make sure to put other flavorings like lime, tamarind juice or sugar to take off the harsh edge.

Also, if you want to make a good larb make sure to use roasted and ground rice. Larb is not larb without it!

Hope this helps.

-Jim

[bilrus]

I have used the Squid brand in a few cooking classes I have taken, but can't find it as readily as Tipars, which it seems that most of the grocery stores here in the DC area have started carrying.

Squid seemed a little more pungent, while Tiparos is a bit more mellow, without being too sweet.

[Oceangroveguy]

t is pungent. however, i mostly use it in its raw form, as a dipping sauce. can't get enough of it.

Wow, that's gotta be pretty intense. I've made dipping sauce with it mixed with lime juice and garlic and chiles, but never alone. I'll have to try a dram straight up one of these days.

[tommy]

t is pungent. however, i mostly use it in its raw form, as a dipping sauce. can't get enough of it.

Wow, that's gotta be pretty intense. I've made dipping sauce with it mixed with lime juice and garlic and chiles, but never alone. I'll have to try a dram straight up one of these days.

to clarify, usually with lime juice or vinegar and some sugar. however, i've been known to just sprinkle it on dishes, not much unlike what people might do with soy. on larb especially, if i don't think the balance is right.

[spoonbread]

I use 3 crabs brand in my pro kitchen exclusively. I've found that no other fish sauce can compare to its flavor, although I recently tried a brand called Golden Boy that is pretty close. I use fish sauce quite a bit, not just Thai.

[MichelleW]

Three crab, hands down. If I can't find it, I settle for Golden Boy. But Three Crab is worth the extra money. It also smells less strong and recipes turn out better when I cook with it.

The cheap stuff in the plastic bottles almost always does me wrong.

[itch22]

I'd like to resurrect this thread.

Correct me if I am wrong but...

1. Good Nuoc Mam should read on the label "nhi" or "thuong hang" to denote a high quality, specifically that it is the first "pressing" from the anchovies.

2. For Vietnamese nuoc mam, the label should also read either "Phu Quoc" or "Phan Thiet" which denote it is from one of these two famous nuoc mam producing regions of Vietnam.

3. It should say "25% dam" meaning it contains 25% fish sauce, since poorer brands are usually only 20%.

4. The ingredients should list "ca com" which is a specific breed of anchovies prized for their use in high quality fish sauce, lower quality sauces using a more common anchovy.

So if I am right on all of these, here is my question... I recently switched to Royal Crab Brand nuoc mam as it meets all the above criteria, however, it is a product of Thailand. How can it be from Phu Quoc and be a Thai product? Or was it produced in Vietnam but bottled and exported from Thailand?

(Edit to add pic.)

Edited October 22, 2004 by itch22 (log)

[trillium]

I'd like to resurrect this thread.

Correct me if I am wrong but...

1.  Good Nuoc Mam should read on the label "nhi" or "thuong hang" to denote a high quality, specifically that it is the first "pressing" from the anchovies.

2.  For Vietnamese nuoc mam, the label should also read either "Phu Quoc" or "Phan Thiet" which denote it is from one of these two famous nuoc mam producing regions of Vietnam.

3.  It should say "25% dam" meaning it contains 25% fish sauce, since poorer brands are usually only 20%.

4.  The ingredients should list "ca com" which is a specific breed of anchovies prized for their use in high quality fish sauce, lower quality sauces using a more common anchovy.

So if I am right on all of these, here is my question...  I recently switched to Royal Crab Brand nuoc mam as it meets all the above criteria, however, it is a product of Thailand.  How can it be from Phu Quoc and be a Thai product?  Or was it produced in Vietnam but bottled and exported from Thailand?

(Edit to add pic.)

←

I don't think so. My guess is that it is a Thai product that is trying to benefit from the reputation of the Phu Quoc region. Read this article in Time Asia for an explanation. I think they are trying to protect their place name, but it might be too late in the US.

regards,

trillium

Edited October 26, 2004 by trillium (log)

[Stupid_American]

Thai brands will usually stand on their own virtues.

The writing at the bottom of that bottle is Cambodian or Lao, not Thai.

[itch22]

I don't think so.  My guess is that it is a Thai product that is trying to benefit from the reputation of the Phu Quoc region.  Read this article in Time Asia for an explanation.  I think they are trying to protect their place name, but it might be too late in the US.

regards,

trillium

←

Yes, I think you are right. I was asking around and a Vietnamese friend's parents told me it is a knock off.

[Ptipois]

I have both nuoc-mam and nam pla sauces at home. For nuoc-mam I use Hung Thanh which is siêu hang (superior quality), based on ca com. It is dark, strong and salty. For nam pla I just use Tiparos. I think Thai fish sauces in general are more delicate, less salty and more fragrant than nuoc-mam, however I use the latter in Vietnamese dishes and the former in Thai dishes. I never cross them.

[pieman]

Phu Quoc Fish Sauce is now a registered trademark. It was registered fairly recently to protect the industry on the island and to fight Thai producers nicking the island's name for their bottle labels.

The Unilever owned Knorr brand started producing their own Phu Quoc fish sauce on the island a year ago. 17 local producers sell a proportion of their sauce to Unilever who bottle it on the island. Some local brand names, maybe all these 17 producers??, will no doubt have fallen by the wayside since Knorr arrived, but I could be wrong on that. I still buy a non-Knorr brand of Phu Quoc nuoc mam here in Saigon.

Unilever were planning to build a decent fish sauce museum, visitor's centre or something. Not sure if they have as yet, but I'll be back there soon and will check it out if it exists.

In the long term I'm not convinced that the snazzy local TV marketing campaigns of a company like Unilever is an altogether good thing for fish sauce variety on Phu Quoc. I imagine the smaller producers who are still around will eventually be priced out of the business. I'm no expert, but I reckon, even on Phu Quoc, there's a discernible taste difference between different producers. A difference I might not be able to notice, but something a lifelong user would know about and it's a difference that could be lost with any future Knorr monopoly.

pieman

Noodlepie

[lovebenton0]

I use Tiparos fish sauce, which I much prefer, recommended to me by snowangel. My SIL gave me a bottle of Lucky brand, which is also produced in Thailand, but it seems sweeter and not as rich. I don't like it as well as the Tiparo.

May find something to use it for. Maybe good plant food?

[itch22]

I use Tiparos fish sauce, which I much prefer, recommended to me by snowangel. My SIL gave me a bottle of Lucky brand, which is also produced in Thailand, but it seems sweeter and not as rich. I don't like it as well as the Tiparo.

May find something to use it for. Maybe good plant food?

←

I tried Lucky Brand once and didn't like it. This may be interesting to note, a local Philipine grocer says Lucky Brand is his best seller (compared to Squid Brand), but a local Vietnamese grocer refuses to carry it and he carries more brands of fish sauce than you can shake an anchovie at.

[tootallfortoques]

Sometimes a brand name just grabs you.

[ned]

I really like fish sauce. I want the best bottle of the stuff that money can buy. I've no idea what the best fish sauce would be like, I'm just curious to taste it and see how it differs from what I normally taste. Like when you are used to a certain quality of olive oil and then one day somebody gives you a teaspoon of this fabulous spanish stuff and your whole idea of olive oil changes. People say three crabs brand is good. It still only costs ten bucks for a liter. Can't be the best. It's too cheap. How can fish sauce be so cheap anyway? Some brands that people say are pretty good only cost five bucks for a liter.

Two and a half questions:

1. Why is fish sauce so cheap considering all the trouble it takes to make it and then the round the world shipping?

2. Is it possible to spend, say, fifty bucks for a precious little bottle of the really good stuff and if so where can I go and do that?

[Gifted Gourmet]

The two towns said to produce the best fish sauce are Phu Quoc and Phan Thiet in Vietnam

from this article:

Sauce Cafe.com

Hope this helps a little, ned!

and then this:

My favorite brands from among those available near my home in California, are Tra Chang (meaning "weighing scale") and Golden Boy. Reasonably good are the King Crab, Squid and Anchovy brands. Three Crabs Brand is not recommended. Taste several brands and choose your own favorite. 

[Busboy]

I really like fish sauce.  I want the best bottle of the stuff that money can buy.  I've no idea what the best fish sauce would be like, I'm just curious to taste it and see how it differs from what I normally taste.  Like when you are used to a certain quality of olive oil and then one day somebody gives you a teaspoon of this fabulous spanish stuff and your whole idea of olive oil changes.  People say three crabs brand is good.  It still only costs ten bucks for a liter.  Can't be the best.  It's too cheap.  How can fish sauce be so cheap anyway?  Some brands that people say are pretty good only cost five bucks for a liter. 

←

Ned, if you drank more wine, you'd know that the price of the bottle is not always a reflection of the quality within.

Why don't you just go around to all the Asian markets in your area, buy every brand you can find, and taste them? Letting your palate, rather than your wallet guide you might be the better strategy.

Given the relatively limited demand for fermented fish guts, I don't think you're going to have to pay $50 to get top of the line stuff until some Vietnamese Emeril comes along to give Nuoc Mam the same elitist cachet top olive oils have. Don't worry, be happy.

(In case you're wondering, I have a bottle of Three Crabs in the cupboard. The price tag has fallen off, but I can't believe it cost anywhere near ten bucks).

[snowangel]

I don't have a clue why the stuff is so cheap. But, it is. That's the way it is. Growing up in Thailand, I can vouch for the fact that there is no "way expensive ultra" stuff. It is what it is.

I'm a Tiparos fan. I've tried them all, and go back to what every Thai cook I've ever known prefers.

Yes, buy every brand you can. Should edit that. Buy every brand you can that does not contain any sort of sugar.

And, pour some into some sort of small container with a lid, slice up some bird chilies (quite a lot, according to my taste). Put lid on it and pull it out whenever you are serving whatever that this would accompany well. Like my chicken soup tonight.