Rules in Cocktail Bars - Codified and Understood

[slkinsey]

Considering the thread we had recently on a customer who was asked to stop using a laptop in a cocktail spot, this recent LA Times article on "rules" in cocktail spots strikes me as timely and interesting:

The new rules of cocktails -- If you want a brilliant drink in a civilized bar, you can't stand up, drop names or wear a hat.

IF you're going to join the cult of the cocktail, then you ought to familiarize yourself with the rules. No more than four people in a group (this applies to celebrities too). No standing. No loud talking. No cellphones. Gentlemen, don't approach the ladies -- and don't forget to take off your hats. No name-dropping -- that's tough in this town. And please (sometimes this one's unwritten) do not commit the faux pas of ordering vodka, especially vodka and cranberry juice.

The age of the cocktail parlor -- the modern speak-easy -- is here, and patrons are requested, nay, required, to behave accordingly. Bartenders are going to the trouble of making their own bitters, sourcing obscure vermouths, hand-chipping ice, precision-stirring and wearing dapper vests, and in return, they're asking that their customers show some manners, in appreciation of a great cocktail. To enforce etiquette, they've made rules. And these rules, more and more common in New York, are starting to show up in Los Angeles.

[cdh]

Great article! I agree that having a few rules does make a bar a much nicer place to hang out. It was a bit of a tour of my preferred NYC drinking establishments as well... Haven't been to Angel's Share in years... must remedy that.

[Daniel Rogov]

Considering that my favorite bars have been in place such as New York's Plaza Hotel, St. Moritz' Badrutt Palace, and the Hotel de Paris in Monte Carlo, I suppose I'm fair-to-square a traditionalist. Despite all of which, I would probably not go to any bar that had rule such as these. By god, if I want to talk about my last meal with Princess Caroline, to bring in six friends to take a table, or to have my martini with a grape in it, ain't nobody gonna tell me otherwise!!!

All of which leads me to call out: "Curmudgeons of the world, Unite"

[Nathan]

my home-bar (which sometimes has 40+ guests at it) has two rules:

1. the bartender is always right.

2. vodka should only be drunk straight and chilled...and only if a Russian is present. (one honorable exception: Pravda makes a decent horseradish vodka served with a quail egg...which proves that 1 in a million vodka drinks can actually be decent)

[bostonapothecary]

i don't really like rules. its kind of unamerican. i like to create a roughneck cocktail bar experience driven by ingenuity of drinks and anything goes. nothing bourgeois with rules. having a bartender introduce you to a woman is a good custom but if i don't know the guy and his level of character hells no. introductions like that are an endorsement. i wouldn't endorse a complete stranger. if two people sit down next to each and you know both of them but they don't know each other you must introduce them to each other... sometimes i bartend in a wifebeater undershirt. i certainly don't uphold the snazzy vest. its a very posh place too but ironic ambience is always fun. i think there are just different kinds of cocktail bars. hopefully they all have good drinks...

[birder53]

These rules create an atmosphere that appeals to some, but not all. That's a good thing in my book. The best thing about these bars is the dedication to creating wonderful cocktails. There are plenty of places for people to go for a beer and a big screen tv. A little something for everyone.

[eje]

I understand the need for some rules, say, "Check your gun at the door," or, "Please respect our neighbors by leaving quietly," others not so much.

I mean any time in a service relationship you get away from, "The customer is always right," aren't you setting yourself up for an adversarial relationship with your customers?

Something like, "Respect your bartender and he, (or she,) will respect you," makes a lot more sense to me than "The bartender is always right."

And fer cripes sake, get over the cosmo. I can understand bartenders being tired of making them, but made well, it's a perfectly fine drink.

Edited November 28, 2007 by eje (log)

[birder53]

Aren't these rules just a way to keep out the customers they don't want? The red bull/cosmo crowd probably wouldn't enjoy themselves unless they decided to get serious about their cocktails instead of just wanting to have fun. The customer is always right, if you are the right kind of customer! If these establishments can survive with their rules, then they've found their niche. Some of the rules are a bit much, but it's not my place!

There is a restaurant in Santa Fe getting good reviews for food but noticed because no perfume is allowed in the dining room. Some people are offended by this rule, others by the perfume.

[Nathan]

Something like, "Respect your bartender and he, (or she,) will respect you," makes a lot more sense to me than "The bartender is always right."

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I should note that I was talking about the bar in my living room. Not a bar where one actually charges customers.

[jsmeeker]

i don't really like rules. its kind of unamerican. i like to create a roughneck cocktail bar experience driven by ingenuity of drinks and anything goes. nothing bourgeois with rules. having a bartender introduce you to a woman is a good custom but if i don't know the guy and his level of character hells no.  introductions like that are an endorsement. i wouldn't endorse a complete stranger. if two people sit down next to each and you know both of them but they don't know each other you must introduce them to each other... sometimes i bartend in a wifebeater undershirt.  i certainly don't uphold the snazzy vest.  its a very posh place too but ironic ambience is always fun.  i think there are just different kinds of cocktail bars.  hopefully they all have good drinks...

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It's also American to allow proprieters to run their businesses as they see fit. If you own a bar and don't want groups larger than four, I think you should do it. If it works, great for you. If it doesn't, you either change the rule or say "forget it" and close up shop.

That said, I don't know how many of these rules I would put up with. What I want is a really great, comfortable, inviting place to get a very well made cocktail. I don't want to be some one special or to have to have the right designer clothes on to get past the velvet rope. Yes, I'm more than willing to keep it "low key" in a place like that. But I don't really need to be TOLD to do that via a set rule. It's something I would do naturally. And I wouldn't go to a place like that if I was with a large group or with a group that didn't appreciate a good cocktail or people who just wanted to get bombed off of vodka and cranberry.

After readign the article, I'm a bit confused as to where these great places are in L.A. The writer spends a lot of time about talking abotu places in New York, too, hoping back and forth between there and L.A.

[phlip]

The bartender is not always right. The customer is not always right. There are no absolutes except that there are no absolutes. Weather rules are unamerican or not one thing very much is: Freedom of choice. We have a few rules at my bar. No Standing: Room does not get overcrowded and service does not suffer from too many people to serve and getting in the way. We seat about 65 its a small room a rambunctious group of people screaming and yelling can ruin the vibe of the whole room. If they are being asked to tone it down a bit they are the ones asking us to ask them. No Flash photography, simply its annoying, if people only took one picture it'd be different but most insist of a photoshoot. Back to freedom of choice: There are thousands of bars in Manhattan or any other city you can go in and do what ever you wish, the cherry tavern if four doors down from my bar, to argue with the staff in my establishment over the rules they don't like is plain stupid, just leave. There are plenty of options. And yes there are certain people we don't want in our bar for the very reason they won't want to be in our bar.

[slkinsey]

I think there are a number of reasons why these rules exist in cocktail spots. These are the most important two:

First and foremost would be the society-wide decline in mannerly behavior and understanding of how to conduct one's self appropriately in different settings. It's sad that a cocktail bar striving for a refined and civilized atmosphere has to caution customers against "hooting and hollering" and hitting on women at the other tables, but it's also a fact that they do have to caution customers against these behaviors.

This brings me directly to the second major factor, which is that for most people a bar is not thought of as a place for a culinary experience so much as it is thought of as a place to get intoxicated, and it is valued more for its ancillary accoutrements (great jukebox/DJ/live music, pool tables, pickup scene, scantily clad women dancing on the bar) than the quality and variety of the libations it provides. This inclines some customers towards certain behaviors that they would never practice in a restaurant (see above-mentioned hooting, hollering and inter-table wooing).

When these two issues are combined, the proprietor of a "really great, comfortable, inviting place to get a very well made cocktail" is inevitably confronted with prospective patrons who are not there for the right reasons and who aren't able or willing to conduct themselves in a way that allows the other patrons to enjoy the space and have a very well made cocktail. Sadly, many such individuals are neither aware that they should behave differently nor even conversant in how to conduct themselves appropriately in such a setting.

To respond briefly and generally to other points raised in the thread: These expectations, either explicitly stated or understood and "enforced" as needed, have nothing to do with the "velvet rope" practices of certain nightclubs. A serious cocktail bar may not admit a bunch of half-in-the-bag girls in cutoffs and bikini tops, but they're not going to admit people based on how attractive they are, or the brand of a man's jacket. I should also point out that some of the cocktail bars that have limitations on the size of a party they will accept are the size of a postage stamp and simply cannot accommodate a larger party.

[eje]

Oh, yes! "No Cellphones," should be the 21st Century equivalent of, "Check your weapons at the door," standard in every bar and restaurant!

[fiftydollars]

I go for the cocktails. If they are worth following a few rules, I'll do it. But the bartender and management had better put at least as much effort in delivering extraordinary cocktails as they do in making rules. If they set a high bar, I will too. Just as with a great restaurant where I will happily jump through whatever hoops you've got to get a great meal, if you want to hold me to a high standard just for the priviledge of allowing me to buy one of your drinks, you had better be worth it.

[slkinsey]

Honestly, these standards aren't generally particularly high. They're only considered high compared to the deplorably low bar set by behavior in most bars. Compared to generally-accepted standards for behavior at any restaurant operating at a similar price point or luxury point (or really anything North of a roadside oil-barrel barbecue pit) the expectations at these cocktail bars are quite reasonable and not particularly stringent.

[mod*betty]

"Yes, I'm more than willing to keep it "low key" in a place like that. But I don't really need to be TOLD to do that via a set rule. It's something I would do naturally."

I think this is the crux of a lot of the rules- there appear to be a great number of people to whom these things do not come naturally. Hence the need to spell out what is acceptable behaviour and what is not.

[birder53]

The more I think about it, I really like the rule limiting the size of each party. It's so easy for a group to really take over a place, especially true for small spaces. No entourages!

[Alchemist]

Wasn't the owner of the Billygoat Tavern who's motto was "if you want to tell me how to run my business, buy me out". The rules arn't the problem, the mood and attitude of the customer usually are. There is a segment of the population who is allways out looking for the coolest place to be, and bringing with them a sense of entitlement. They are used to going out in big groups, ordering a bottle of Kettle One then dancing on the banquetes, and hooting when the newest Nelly song is spun by the DJ. This is not to say that these people same people shouldn't go there on a Tue when thier parents are in from out of town for a quiet cocktail.

There are groups of guys who go out on the weekends trawling for drunk whore d'ourves. If it just one of them out on a date a "rules" place might be perfect. Maybe not though.

Like a high end resturant, a high end bar is when you are in a certin headspace. The key is not bringing your own baggage into the bar but letting the bar enviroment direct your behavior.

It's a hard thing sometimes to submit to the grace and wonder of a quiet bar. But it is worth it when the time, and company is right.

[weinoo]

First and foremost would be the society-wide decline in mannerly behavior and understanding of how to conduct one's self appropriately in different settings.  It's sad that a cocktail bar striving for a refined and civilized atmosphere has to caution customers against "hooting and hollering" and hitting on women at the other tables, but it's also a fact that they do have to caution customers against these behaviors.

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Pretty much have to agree with Sam here...and that's why rules are needed. Not just at cocktail places, but everywhere, unfortunately.

[eje]

To me there's a bit of irony that modern "Speakeasies" are at the forefront of this rule making.

Were the Speakeasies of the 1920s and 30s places of refinement and gentle conversation?

Were the hotel bars and clubs of the Roaring 20s, frequented by flappers, dandies, and gangsters, places for quiet reflection and the appreciation of the well made cocktail?

Are the Choker, Earthquake, Block and Fall, or Between the Sheets cocktails delicate potations to be savored?

I'm all for the elevation of cocktail arts and its practitioners. I think, though, that modern libation artists should recognize that they are trying to create something new and not encourage false histories and a nostalgia for an age that never existed.

[jsmeeker]

To respond briefly and generally to other points raised in the thread:  These expectations, either explicitly stated or understood and "enforced" as needed, have nothing to do with the "velvet rope" practices of certain nightclubs.  A serious cocktail bar may not admit a bunch of half-in-the-bag girls in cutoffs and bikini tops, but they're not going to admit people based on how attractive they are, or the brand of a man's jacket.  I should also point out that some of the cocktail bars that have limitations on the size of a party they will accept are the size of a postage stamp and simply cannot accommodate a larger party.

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I'm not so sure if this is the case. At least based on what I read in the article about some of the bars in Los Angeles. There were references to the types of shirts and pants people were wearing in one place, plus another mention about the doorman keeping people out who don't belong. How does the doorman know if you are the type to order a Negroni or a Red Bull and Vodka? Does he ask? I somehow doubt that.

I DO understand having a "velvet rope" and door man if the goal is to control the size of the crowd in the bar and not to allow it to exceed actual SEATING capacity.

But maybe I am reading too much into this or the reporter didn't do a good job explaining.

[cdh]

Were the Speakeasies of the 1920s and 30s places of refinement and gentle conversation?

Were the hotel bars and clubs of the Roaring 20s, frequented by flappers, dandies, and gangsters, places for quiet reflection and the appreciation of the well made cocktail?

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Think a moment about the circumstances of the old original speakeasies. They were illegal operations flying under the radar. They'd likely have been quite paranoid about making sure that drunken rowdiness didn't attract unwanted attention... I'd not be surprised if there was a code of conduct (whether it had been formalized into a list of rules or not) that was enforced. (Anybody know any sociologies of speakeasy culture to check into this hypothesis?)

Most of the rules listed in the article aren't things I'd generally fall afoul of whether I knew they were rules or not, so they're not an onerous obligation on me... hence my attitude that they're no big deal.

Edited November 28, 2007 by cdh (log)

[Splificator]

Sadly, I have to agree with Sam and Toby et al. here. Drastic times demand drastic measures. If P.G. Wodehouse and Raymond Chandler were required reading in high school (is grade school too early?), then maybe civilized bars wouldn't have to resort to writing down the (formerly) unwritten code that used to govern how one behaves in a bar and shove it under their customers' noses. But people don't know, because nobody ever told them (that might impair their self-esteem, and we can't have that, can we?), and so there, in loco parentis, stands the bartender. (Shades of Slim Gaillard's song, way back in the be-bop era, "The Bartender's Just Like a Mother.") Would that it weren't so, but it is.

[kiliki]

The size limit rule is obnoxious-it really depends on the size of the space. I have a favorite, very tiny, cocktail bar that I don't even like to go to with more than 1 other person. I have another favorite that's fairly roomy and has no trouble accomodating six people at one table. And I do frequently go there with a group of 5 others, since we we often go out to a nice dinner with 2 other couples, and we like to have good drinks after. Why should we be relegated to the crappy bars and badly made drinks, just because we are 6? Should good restaurants impose this limit too?

[slkinsey]

To me there's a bit of irony that modern "Speakeasies" are at the forefront of this rule making.

Were the Speakeasies of the 1920s and 30s places of refinement and gentle conversation?

[. . .]

I'm all for the elevation of cocktail arts and its practitioners.  I think, though, that modern libation artists should recognize that they are trying to create something new and not encourage false histories and a nostalgia for an age that never existed.

I don't think these are "speakeasies" in any sense other than (usually) being small and not copiously signed/advertised. And I think the "modern speakeasy" meme is one picked up by the press more than deliberately promulgated by cocktail bar owners. Dave Kaplan of D&C touches on this when he explains that some places have rules "because speak-easies had them and speak-easies are in vogue " on the one hand or because they're "simple guidelines of etiquette" on the other hand. -- the implication I take from this is that the former is silly and the latter is useful.

Of course speakeasies (which is to say, places to get illegal booze during the Volstead Act from 1920 to 1933) were likely horrible places to get a drink after stocks of pre-Prohibition booze ran out. But I'm not sure that modern cocktail spots are trying to emulate them so much as some of them are trying to evoke a time still associated with quality mixology in America. This is mistakenly thought to be the Jazz Age, but more often than not the actual iconography comes from the post-Prohibition period (e.g., the Thin Man movies) or from the (Nineteen) Teens.

As to your larger point, I'm sure that many a saloon was a rough and ready place back to whichever day one would like to harken. But I don't get the impression that anyone is furthering the belief that cocktail bars during the previous great cocktail ages were like monastaries. Sam Ross at M&H/Little Branch does say, "Everything we do is a throwback to the early 20th century . . . The bartenders are inspired to bar-tend at a different level . . . We're seen as a draw for the place." But I don't see that as quite the same thing as creating a false mythology.

I'm not so sure if this is the case. At least based on what I read in the article about some of the bars in Los Angeles.  There were references to the types of shirts and pants people were wearing in one place, plus another mention about the doorman keeping people out who don't belong.  How does the doorman know if you are the type to order a Negroni or a Red Bull and Vodka?  Does he ask?  I somehow doubt that.

I assume you are thinking of this:

"I like policies," said Sang Yoon, who is opening a second Father's Office, in Culver City, planned for December. "It gives us choices; 'that place is for me, that place isn't.' " And for bar owners, it's saying, 'Here's who we are, and here's who we want our customers to be.' You can't say, 'No schmucks.' "

At SBE Entertainment Group's new Philippe Starck-designed S-Bar in Hollywood, there aren't any rules per se, but the "schmucks" might be discouraged not only by the doorman and velvet ropes but also by the price of a cocktail -- $20 for an Imperial Prince of Wales (Cognac, Benedictine, angostura bitters and brut Champagne) or $19 for a horseradish and pomegranate margarita.

"You can't do it with pricing," Yoon said. "You get rich schmucks."

Yoon has rules, but they're not written anywhere. "The way I set rules is by not offering certain choices," he said. "You rid yourself of pitchers of beer, or light beer. No beer from a bottle."

And no vodka. You won't find any on his cocktail menu at the new Father's Office. . .

I think you may be misreading this part. They're not talking about a doorman making arbitrary choices based on appearance to keep out the Red Bull and Vodka drinkers. They're talking about keeping out the Red Bull and Vodka drinkers by not offering any vodka and not offering any Red Bull (among other things).

I'm not sure where you are getting the idea that they are regulating shirts and pants and things like that (one customer at PDT made a joke about Oxford shirts). All I see is that some places ask men to take off their hats or disallow baseball hats.

The size limit rule is obnoxious-it really depends on the size of the space. I have a favorite, very tiny, cocktail bar that I don't even like to go to with more than 1 other person. I have another favorite that's fairly roomy and has no trouble accomodating six people at one table. And I do frequently go there with a group of 5 others, since we we often go out to a nice dinner with 2 other couples, and we like to have good drinks after. Why should we be relegated to the crappy bars and badly made drinks, just because we are 6? Should good restaurants impose this limit too?

kiliki, no cocktail bar of which I am aware has group size limits that are arbitrary or capricious. Rather, they are simply not willing to cram too many people into the space in order to accommodate requests that they accept parties larger than they can handle. I understand that this is somewhat different from most bars that adopt a "cram as many people in there as possible" approach -- but I, for one, am grateful for the limitations.

I guess I don't quite understand what your example is supposed to be showing. Are you saying that the larger of your two preferred cocktail bars will seat a table of 5 but won't seat a table of 6? If so, this may simply come down to a difference of opinion -- you may think the table can accommodate 6 but they may not agree that it can accommodate a party that large at their standards. Certainly at good restaurants, there is a limit to how many people they are willing to cram in around a table.