Restaurant Sat Bains

[olicollett]

Great report Harters Can't wait to return - I think Sat Bains is one of those restaurants that raises big questions about various guides/lists! The only restaurant I rate higher in the UK right now is the fat duck, and there's few i've eaten at outside of the UK which are as good!

[ajnicholls]

Off there on Saturday for a much overdue re-visit. Your review Harters has really got me excited. It was one of the best places I've ever eaten on my first visit.

[marcusjames]

Due to the fact I live in Notts I have to confess to being a little - and by that I probably mean a lot - bias, but it's a joy to have Sat's on the doorstep. I went a fortnight ago (my menu was very close to what Harter's reports and I can only echo his comments), followed by L'Enclume last week and there was nothing in it in my opinion - SB was in a different league. This is more a testament to how good Sat's is right now rather than L'Enclume being sub-par.

In a word - go.

[Bapi]

Funnily enough a group of us have been discussing a dinner in October/November and L'Enclume and Sat Bains are the two at the top of the list. I can't believe it's three years since our last visit to Sat's. I really need another fix. Nice review btw Harters.

Edited May 11, 2011 by Bapi (log)

[ajnicholls]

Did the development kitchen on Saturday night. Will do a proper write up when I have more time, but it was an amazing experience. Very different style of eating from the main restaurant, but it was an incredible meal.

[RDB]

Look forward to the review Adam. Although looking at your avatar is somewhat making me jealous as I never got and you gave me a technique to get in which did not work,!!!,,,

Cheers

[olicollett]

Fitted a trip to the development kitchen in with the cricket this weekend - It was fantastic. I'll post more when I get the pics back from my mate's camera that I borrowed

[howardlong]

I had my first meal at Sat Bains last night. I also had a room there for the night.

Food and service good, although perhaps a little too much going on on the plate for my liking, and the order of the courses with matching wines seemed a little strange. But it was very pleasant overall.

That was until I went to checkout this morning. They added a £90 "cancellation charge" to my bill. When I asked, it was because they had assumed there were going to be two dining. There was never a discussion about there being two when I booked a day or so earlier, although in the email confirmation it did say "I have also booked a table for the two of you in our Restaurant".

Not thinking much about that, when I turned up I told them that it would only be me.

They did halve the cancellation charge in the end, but needless to say it still left a rather unpleasant taste in my mouth, particularly as we had not discussed this previously, with it almost being cheekily added to the bill in the hope I wouldn't notice. I would now think long and hard before returning. "We have to run a business you know" I was told, well yes, that's as maybe, but I am unlikely to be your customer in future.

Howard

Edited October 1, 2011 by howardlong (log)

[Brownbear]

Read the cancellation policy.. No small print, just Calibri 12 font.

Edited October 1, 2011 by Brownbear (log)

[Man]

They are of course a business, but they shouldn't forget that they are a hospitality business...

Your account (and others I've heard) suggest a manner that is incompatible with hospitality.

Secondly, a cancellation charge of £90 is exorbitant (especially because the high prices should include some costs for no-shows), and if it is such an important part of their policy they should state it very prominently on their website, e.g. in the menu prices. It isn't.

Finally, if I understand correctly that you hadn't booked for two, but that the restaurant simply 'assumed' it was going to be two, then it is even worse. It was a mistake on their part and it did not justify charging the customer, let alone trying to slip the charge in the bill without a word, an act in my opinion unworthy of a 'fine' establishment independently of the merit of the case.

I wouldn't have paid and if they had attempted to collect it via my credit card I would have disputed the payment.

[Mjx]

If you reserved for yourself alone, the error is in their assumption, and I don't see how it is even legal for them to charge a cancellation fee. I think this should be discussed with the manager.

[Harters]

if it is such an important part of their policy they should state it very prominently on their website, e.g. in the menu prices. It isn't.

It seems prominent to me and in the sensible section of the website, i.e."reservations".

Surely the question about numbers centres on whatever Howard reserved. I do not believe that I have ever made a resaurant reservation without stating, and being asked to state, the number of diners. Surely Howard did not vaguely ask for "a table"?

Unless, of course, in booking his room and dinner, he booked one of their "gastronomic packages" to which the website gives some prominence to the fact that prices are based on "two sharing".

[howardlong]

What was interesting was that when I got into my room before dinner, there was a nice personalised welcome note on the dressing table (that had no chair btw). It had an interesting rule on it that said I was welcome to have a drink at the bar prior to dinner but in no circumstances should I dare come more than 15 minutes before as it gets busy. I thought the nature of the demand was rather amusing, I felt like I was in a Blackpool guest house from the 50's. I should have expected this was the shape of things to come later. Of course when I got to the bar 10 minutes prior to my dinner engagement it was completely empty.

The other interesting thing I was told when I protested the charge was that they would never have made the table available if they had known I was a single diner. Even less reason for me to go again, as when I dine alone about 50% of the time.

I am not denying it's in the terms and conditions. However, I dine out about twice a week in M* establishments, this is the first time I've ever encountered a charge for lone dining.

One further thing, I requested the bill at the table after dinner. The waiter went away, came back 5 minutes later and told me it would be put on the room bill. Circumstantial, but I strongly suspect that they were avoiding a confrontation during service. Also at all other times except when paying the final bill I was dealt with by Amanda. When it came to presenting me with the bill she pushed it to one of her staff. It was the way it was dealt with, hoping I wouldn't notice, more than the charge itself that really annoyed me! Had we discussed this at the start when they knew I was a single diner we could have come to an arrangement, for example I could have easily covered the charge by going alc on wine rather than their flight.

Amanda reminded me of Tom Aiken's wife when she ran his FoH some years ago: her customer skills were not compatible with the kind of person you'd immediately consider for the role either.

Howard

[Andrew]

The other interesting thing I was told when I protested the charge was that they would never have made the table available if they had known I was a single diner. Even less reason for me to go again, as when I dine alone about 50% of the time.

Amanda reminded me of Tom Aiken's wife when she ran his FoH some years ago: her customer skills were not compatible with the kind of person you'd immediately consider for the role either.

Howard

This is a very different experience compared to my visits. I've been there a few times, twice as a single diner (although have never stayed there). Each time I've been welcomed and Amanda has been excellent, perfect FoH. On both occassions I've booked for one and there have been no issues. In fact the total opposite. One evening there was another single diner who had a little to much to drink and was causing some difficulty and Amanda (and Sat) dealt with him expertly. Whenever I go to Nottingham for work I try and visit with clients or by myself.

Andrew

[howardlong]

This is a very different experience compared to my visits. I've been there a few times, twice as a single diner (although have never stayed there). Each time I've been welcomed and Amanda has been excellent, perfect FoH. On both occassions I've booked for one and there have been no issues. In fact the total opposite. One evening there was another single diner who had a little to much to drink and was causing some difficulty and Amanda (and Sat) dealt with him expertly. Whenever I go to Nottingham for work I try and visit with clients or by myself.

Your experience was exactly what I was hoping for, and, until the "single tax" appeared when I paid the bill the next morning, I was fairly confident I would return. After all, I was born less than two miles away and spent eighteen years of my life living and working with 15 miles, so I have fairly strong connections with the area.

There is no doubt that she stated to me at the time that she would not have accepted a single reservation for the evening in question.

I still think about the whole experience several times each day since the event, and consider how strange it was. I should mention that Amanda accepted that she had indeed incorrectly assumed that there would be two diners, and that we had never discussed two people during the telephone call when making the booking.

Of course one may argue that I should have read the terms and conditions in the email. I wonder just how many readers expect to read a set of terms and conditions when making a restaurant reservation? Equally pedantic, I could have argued that using email is a non guaranteed delivery mechanism, so I could have, if I was trying it on, chose to say I had never received any email. I did not. I think it was clear to Amanda that I was not trying to pull a fast one, far from it in fact, and that it was a genuine error and misunderstanding. To my mind that's another reason why I find the whole affair and the way it was dealt with so strange. I can only draw my own conclusions.

Cheers, Howard

[david goodfellow]

Howard, you should have read, Tripadvisor.

[howardlong]

Howard, you should have read, Tripadvisor.

LOL! Clearly!

Howard

[Matthew Grant]

I've never been to the restaurant but I've always found Sat Bains to me an amiable guy on TV but some of his responses to the poor reviews on tripadvisor would make me think twice about ever dining at his restaurant.

e.g.

RestaurantSatBains, Owner at Restaurant Sat Bains with Rooms, responded to this review

19 February 2011

I definately remember this 'odd' couple.

She was obviously making an effort as still had tags on her cloths, i think she went to TK Maxx which just happens to be my favourite store. They are correct about barking at my staff because i would hate them to get above their station.

On the werewolf front I knew I should of had a shave..... Ooooowwww. Stay off the moors.!

Sat Bains(with beard)

This response is the subjective opinion

Whilst I can understand that customers might drive you insane the fact that he seems to respond to every negative review, a lot of them based around poor customer service or the cancellation policy, suggests a surprising level of insecurity. One of the reviewers had their 4 top cancelled after one of their party dropped out. Surely a table for 3 would have been the same table as one for 4? Another of Sat's responses suggests that the cancellation charge is actually sent to the MacMillan Cancer Support fund - a nice idea but this would suggest that it is nothing more than a punitive charge, is this even legal?

[Brownbear]

Ok guys, let’s all calm down........We don’t charge a Tax for singles, that’s ludicrous, as we get a lot of single diners here.

We do however try to make sure we get full occupancy in the restaurant as we are also trying to run a business in a very difficult environment, so we always try to capitalise the booking to full potential.

Howard did say he did read the cancellation policy but thought nothing of it, when it was clearly stated the booking was for 2.

After the discussion at breakfast we did say we would meet half way hence the 45 pounds charge.

As for all my comments on Shit advisor, it’s a piss take, it’s supposed to conjure up some humour, and for those that know me, know it’s all in jest.

If this puts some of you off, so be it.

P.s Dont believe everything you read, including this..........

[Matthew Grant]

When you say "we try to capitalise the booking to full potential" does this include booking an extra seat for single reservations

The argument is between yourselves and Howard but as the error was your own I would have thought waiving the fee was the least you could do

[Brownbear]

The error was not ours. Email confirmation was sent and read by Howard which clearly stated two guests.

Now please keep your nose out!

[Matthew Grant]

No

[Brownbear]

Brilliant reply.....!

[howardlong]

Actually, you will find that the error _was_ yours, as you incorrectly assumed their were two people, an assumption you accepted you had made when we spoke on Saturday morning, that I had never discussed there being two people.

In fact, I had not read the cancellation policy until after our discussion on Saturday morning: I had read the email to check that the date was correct, and that you had chosen to book two in for dinner. The cancellation policy was a scroll away down the page which I did not read at the time. Booking two in for dinner was your assumption, and I thought little of it. Although not common, this situation has happend on a couple of occasions to me before where there is an assumption made that it must be for two. Never has it been a problem before, the table is adjusted appropriately and that's it. No charge. No bad feeling. And I return.

It was a genuine misunderstanding, I am sure you will agree. That is why I find it rather extraordinary that you chose to treat me like I was trying to rip you off.

The main problem, as I have already stated, is that it could have been dealt with a lot better, rather than relying on legalese, resulting in a more than uneasy feeling about the whole situation and one less customer, a customer you might have preferred not to lose in this "difficult environment". In fact, had I gone ALC on the wine list as I suggested in an earlier post, you would have almost certainly have ended up a lot better off!

To say I am personally disappointed and depressed about the whole situation would be an understatement.

I wanted to like it. And I did. Until I tried to leave.

Howard

Edited October 5, 2011 by howardlong (log)

[Mjx]

Actually, you will find that the error _was_ yours, as you incorrectly assumed their were two people, an assumption you accepted you had made when we spoke on Saturday morning, that I had never discussed there being two people.

. . . . Booking two in for dinner was your assumption, and I thought little of it. Although not common, this situation has happend on a couple of occasions to me before where there is an assumption made that it must be for two. Never has it been a problem before, the table is adjusted appropriately and that's it. No charge. No bad feeling.

. . . .

Howard

I too have sometimes encountered this assumption when dining alone (and hadn't even considered dining with someone else, so there was no question of my mis-stating this); evidently, this is still regarded as unusual. Because of this, I doubt I would have questioned a booking noting a party of two, either, not because I'm careless or lazy, but simply because I would have assumed that it was a boilerplate response, and that questioning it would have been a pointless exercise likely elicit an irritated response from whichever staff member addressed my query.