Philadelphia Food Media

[Vadouvan]

To be fair, Brian McManus asserts the onion rings have an "almost poison-like" aftertaste not a "poisonous" aftertaste. But how does one distinguish between a "poison-like" and an "almost poison-like" aftertaste? Post-meal survival time?

What about those devious, flavorless poisons favored by Agatha Christie that don't taste the least bit "poison-like?" Or maybe the onion rings had a cyanidic aftertaste of almonds. So many possibilities.

A food critic, even a Philadelphia Weekly food critic, needs to be more precise.

For an insight into McManus's take on things, check out his earlier review of National Mechanics. He seems to have a predictable, starving college student view of yup-scale diners that carries through from the "swinish tribe of trend-worshiping, spray-tanned philistines who don’t mind dropping 10 bones or more each time they order a cocktail" who roam Old City to the "Washington Square scenesters” referenced in his Restaurant 707 ravaging.

Good point Holly, perhaps the Philly weekly editors should not hire people with an obvious bias to review places they are biased against, I mean why not hire a vegetarian to review a steak house.

Distinguishing between "poisinous" and "poisin-like" is pointless, both are useless pejoratives.

Point ultimately is this, why should a newspaper that prides itself on filling it's last 10 pages of classifieds with advertisements for the services of strippers, transvestite prostitutes, call girls and gigolos and lets not forget "massage" spas make any social statements on refinement by callling people who eat bullshit appetizers and $10 cocktails Philistines ?????

The pot isnt just calling the kettle black, the pot IS the new black.

Edited June 21, 2007 by Vadouvan (log)

[mrbigjas]

ah i don't know, it's just the philadelphia weekly. as a decent reviewer, kirsten henri is the exception rather than the rule over there. remember chick from a couple years ago who did a column listing all the things she wouldn't eat?

[Alec Hart]

Point ultimately is this, why should a newspaper that prides itself on filling it's last 10 pages of classifieds with advertisements for the services of strippers, transvestite prostitutes, call girls and gigolos and lets not forget "massage" spas make any social statements on refinement by callling people who eat bullshit appetizers and $10 cocktails Philistines ????

This hardly seems fair. I doubt PW prides itself on this. In fact, I suspect, they do it grudgingly so that they can expand the size of their editorial sections including their dining section.

But yes, I would also like to see improvement in the level of food writing in PW.

-- Alec

[Capaneus]

ah i don't know, it's just the philadelphia weekly.  as a decent reviewer, kirsten henri is the exception rather than the rule over there.  remember chick from a couple years ago who did a column listing all the things she wouldn't eat?

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Wasn't that Ms. Henri?

[Holly Moore]

Nope. Robin Rinaldi in a column titled "The Importance of Being Finicky".

For the eGullet discussion see here. Warning, false assumptions ahead, unfortunately on my part.

[Vadouvan]

This hardly seems fair. I doubt PW prides itself on this. In fact, I suspect, they do it grudgingly so that they can expand the size of their editorial sections including their dining section.

But yes, I would also like to see improvement in the level of food writing in PW.

-- Alec

Sorry but that's ridiculous, nobody peddles porn "grudgingly" while they are being paid pant-loads of money to do so.

Fact is if they are going to call restaurant patrons philistines, maybe the ought to read the contents of thier own paper before trying to make any intellectual or social statements.

[jmbrightman]

Point ultimately is this, why should a newspaper that prides itself on filling it's last 10 pages of classifieds with advertisements for the services of strippers, transvestite prostitutes, call girls and gigolos and lets not forget "massage" spas make any social statements on refinement by callling people who eat bullshit appetizers and $10 cocktails Philistines ?????

The pot isnt just calling the kettle black, the pot IS the new black.

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Editorial and advertising are separate and distinct - it is a tenet of journalism. The sales guys have a job to do, and the journalists have their own code of ethics that must guide them. In no way does advertising content invalidate reporting. If the newspaper chooses to accept ads that you find objectionable, you can choose not to pick up the paper.

[Holly Moore]

I'd rephrase that to "Editorial and advertising should be different." When I first started writing a restaurant column for the City Paper the advertising sales types were constantly after me to write about a restaurant they were pitching. One went so far as to sell a restaurant an advertising contract with promise that I would write about the place. I didn't. At the time this sort of contact wasn't really discouraged. Fortunately I had total backing from the publisher when I told any ad person that called me that I would never write about any restaurant he/she asked me to write about.

A few years later the City Paper ran a second restaurant "review/feature" that was written by the advertising department but appeared to be editorial - sickenly flowery and horribly written most of the time. Hindsight - I should have insisted they stop it, but I didn't. Maybe because it was total separate from what I considered my food section.

My sense is that, except in the city dailies, there will often be pressure to write about advertisers and it is up to the writer to refuse to do so.

Edited June 22, 2007 by Holly Moore (log)

[Vadouvan]

Editorial and advertising are separate and distinct - it is a tenet of journalism. The sales guys have a job to do, and the journalists have their own code of ethics that must guide them. In no way does advertising content invalidate reporting. If the newspaper chooses to accept ads that you find objectionable, you can choose not to pick up the paper.

That's just Clintonian hair splitting.

It's BS.

It's not about if I find the content objectionable or not, for the record I couldnt care less, my point is FOOD critics tend to stray by becoming SOCIAL critics.

You go to a restaurant to review the food not the patrons.

This tendency of projected inferiority complex that makes food writers describe people they dont know as "Philistines" simply because they may be having trendy cocktails is absurd.

I am simply pointing out that if you want to make social statements on refinement, you might not want to write for a newspaper with a substantial investment in pornography.

[Andrew Fenton]

That's just... hair splitting.

It's not hair-splitting. Newspapers aren't monoliths; the writers don't-- or as Holly says, shouldn't-- speak with the same voice as the editorial board, who don't speak with the same voice as the advertising staff. There can and should be disagreements between the parts of the paper.

And given the difficulty of breaking into print as a food critic, it's a little unrealistic to suggest that a critic ought to quit because of a (perceived) inconcinnity between the parts of the paper.

[Vadouvan]

nd given the difficulty of breaking into print as a food critic, it's a little unrealistic to suggest that a critic ought to quit because of a (perceived) inconcinnity between the parts of the paper.

Taking this too seriously, I am not suggesting anyone quits, all I am saying is the reviews are meaningless, they arent about food or the restaurant, it's just stylized writing that should be seen as the garbage it is.

It OBVIOUSLY isnt hard to break into print as a food critic excluding Laban, Henri, Keyser,Nichols,Motoyama who moved to France, the rest is fluff.

[Holly Moore]

That's just... hair splitting.

And given the difficulty of breaking into print as a food critic.....

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Thanks to eGullet it has become easier, at least to break into electronic print. Food blogging too. I suspect many of the blogs and eGullet posts have wider true readership than many a print food critic.

[Andrew Fenton]

Thanks to eGullet it has become easier, at least to break into electronic print.  Food blogging too.  I suspect many of the blogs and eGullet posts have wider true readership than many a print food critic.

True. But to get paid for it?

[Holly Moore]

Thanks to eGullet it has become easier, at least to break into electronic print.  Food blogging too.  I suspect many of the blogs and eGullet posts have wider true readership than many a print food critic.

True. But to get paid for it?

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You don't get paid for your eGullet posts?

[Andrew Fenton]

You don't get paid for your eGullet posts?

No, as far as I know it's only the moderators who make the big bucks...

[jmbrightman]

You don't get paid for your eGullet posts?

No, as far as I know it's only the moderators who make the big bucks...

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seems like a pretty good gig.

[serpentine]

That's just Clintonian hair splitting.

It's BS.

No, it's not. It is, as previously mentioned by Mr. Brightman, a main tenet of journalism that editorial and advertisting are separate entities.

It OBVIOUSLY isnt hard to break into print as a food critic excluding Laban, Henri, Keyser,Nichols,Motoyama who moved to France, the rest is fluff.

Your opinions, they are not actual facts. Obviously.

[Rich Pawlak]

The interferences of advertising with editorial is a reality at a lot of magazines, unfortunately. At a previous food editor gig, I was constantly barraged by the sales folk to cover places they pitched, with some actually promising the restaurants a write-up. I ususally ignored them, but sometimes got pressure from upper management to in fact comply with sales.

In my current position at MAINLINE Magazine I have been solicited by sales folk to "consider" covering certain restaurants that are advertisers or potential advertisers, but I'm fortunate to have an editor who rips the salesfolk a new one if they ever contact me. So far I remain free to write about places of my choosing. But I know that my situation is the exception, not the rule.

[Rich Pawlak]

It OBVIOUSLY isnt hard to break into print as a food critic excluding Laban, Henri, Keyser,Nichols,Motoyama who moved to France, the rest is fluff.

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[Vadouvan]

No, it's not. It is, as previously mentioned by Mr. Brightman, a main tenet of journalism that editorial and advertisting are separate entities.

So why is it being repeated, is a second mention of the same sentence a more convincing argument ?

The original quote isnt an indictment of journalism, it's about the philly weekly.

Your opinions, they are not actual facts. Obviously.

E-gullet was created for "opinions".

The fact that anyone's opinions do not mirror yours isnt a prerequisite of fact.

"Facts" exist on different levels.

The sun is hot in july is an "undisputed fact".

It very hard to become a food writer is not an "undisputed fact".

It's harder than you think, Vad.

Regards,

Rich "Fluffy" Pawlak

Jeez Rich...can this discussions go on without being sublimated into folks spinning things into personal offenses ?

It ruins the board.

You write for a MAINLINE publication, last time I checked Philadelphia stopped around lancaster and cityline aves where the mainline apparently starts?

The thread says "Philadelphia food media".

AND the original point I made is this...

This tendency of projected inferiority complex that makes food writers describe people they dont know as "Philistines" simply because they may be having trendy cocktails is absurd.

I am simply pointing out that if you want to make social statements on refinement, you might not want to write for a newspaper with a substantial investment in pornography.

I am not attacking journalism as a whole.

Chill out.

The issue of editorial and advertising isnt at all the issue, it's about content.

Both are under the same banner of newspaper.

It has a uniform voice which is the amalgalm of it's contents.

Edited to add: Philly Mag and STYLE also have good food writers.

Edited June 22, 2007 by Vadouvan (log)

[Holly Moore]

The sun is hot in july is an "undisputed fact".

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Except in the southern hemisphere.

[Vadouvan]

Except in the southern hemisphere. 

Philadelphia Holly.......

[Rich Pawlak]

The issue of editorial and advertising isnt at all the issue, it's about content.

Both are under the same banner of newspaper.

It has a uniform voice which is the amalgalm of it's contents.

Edited to add: Philly Mag and STYLE also have good food writers.

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[Vadouvan]

Including the current version of STYLE in your praise kills your credibility.

Why ?

Because you no longer work for them and are working for a competing publication .....

[Rich Pawlak]

Including the current version of STYLE in your praise kills your credibility.

Why ?

Because you no longer work for them and are working for a competing publication .....

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Because the have virtually no serious food writing in the magazine. And I dont think MAINLINE is in any kind of competition with that mag.