Newspaper eating out offers

[malcolmwilliamson]

My Telegraph "eat out for £5" lunch menu in London yesterday was identical to the restaurant's £12 two course prix fixe offer.

Last week, in a different restaurant on the Times Bordeaux "Dine with Wine" offer (2/3 courses + glass of wine for £10/15)), lunch was eaten from a menu that was almost the same as their £11.95/£15.95 (without wine) standard lunch menu. Both £2 supplements, on steak and cheese, were removed on the Times version. The newspaper deal thus provided me with a roughly half price meal.

My prior research had indicated that both were good restaurants with 2.2.4 and 1.1.2 Harden's scores, 5 and 1 GFG levels, and very positive customer feedback on london-eating . In my experience both restaurants' reputations are justified.

Has anyone else had similar experiences? (Or am I the only cheapskate egulleter? )

Does anyone know the economics of newspaper offers; is money exchanged between the newspaper and restaurant? What motivates good restaurants such as these to participate?

[WHT]

Tp get people to come in and buy hopfully more than just the special. In the US many places do this and depending on the size of the advertisment would effect the cost. Larger getting more visability and hence more money.

[Bernice Hurst]

I've always thought that part of the idea, at least, was to get people in and impress them so much that they'd keep coming back and pay regular prices. Doesn't always work though. There is a celeb chef with a pub near here whose place is always jumping during prix fixe lunch and dinner hours then deserted the rest of the time. The whole idea only holds up if the food and service are good enough to convince people that it's worth paying more on another occasion.

[sunbeam]

It's a perfectly good marketing technique. As someone said, get people to come in on an offer, and if they're impressed they will come back and pay full price and also tell their friends.

And if they hate every dish, at least they can console themselves they didn't pay too much.

It is true though that some restaurant staff can be a bit supercilious when you go in on an offer. I have a skin like an elephant though and don't let that get to me. I just don't leave them a tip.

S

Edited March 3, 2007 by sunbeam (log)

[erica graham]

We get asked this question when we participate in offers, although we can't afford the 2 course for £5 one!! The answer is as given above, it lets new guests try us out for minimal risk, and we get a good percentage of return visits!! Also its good for everyone (kitchen and out front) to be busy in traditionally quiet periods of the year. I must say though I'm amazed how far people will drive to get a good deal !!

[thom]

Probably interesting to flag up the Hi-Life diners club at this point.

Although practically invisible to those outside the North West Hi-Life has been going for a long, long time (15, 20 years?) and now claim 80,000 members across the North of England.

Their model is one of a discount dining club; most of the time participating restaurants offer a 'two for one deal' either on main courses, or occasionally on the whole meal. In theory the restaurant limits the offer to its down-times (midweek lunctimes, Tuesday evenings etc) but in actuality everything excluding Christmas and Valentines day seems fair game.

The financials are simple: The members pay around £40-£50 per year for membership (I'm going from memory here so anyone with more time than I is free to offer corrections or clarifications) and the restaurants themselves pay nothing. £45 each means big numbers when you add up the number of members and the probable overheads...

Anyway it works thus: Members get cheap meals, which they like. Restaurants get a marketing outlet in that the scheme encourage people to try their restaurant (and makes them aware of it in the first place through their annual restaurant guide).

Sure it seems the restaurant takes a hit but actually most restaurant's major costs are fixed - staff, rent, rates, services etc so once you are open of an evening the actual food costs are a relatively small proportion (in the 20-30% bracket?) and serving one chicken breast rather than two shouldn't break the boat.

Obviously restaurants would also hope to also recoup some cash by upselling around the diners visit (alcohol, coffees etc) as well as persuading them to return again and to bring their friends with them.

Don't get me wrong, some chefs and restaurants refuse to buy into this - either they feel they don't need it (The Individual Restaurant Company for example) or they just don't believe the money side stacks up. That said, over 1,100 restaurants around the region HAVE signed up to it, and if you go to their website you'll find plenty of gems in amongst the Frankie and Bennies (in Manchester this includes Palmiro, River Restaurant, Sapporo Teppanyaki, Harvey Nichols, Marmalade, Thai E-Sarn etc).

The whole company has recently been taken over by an Irish operation who, weirdly, did a virtually identical thing discount membership scheme for golfers and golf courses around the world. They have big plans so expect a national Hi-Life roll-out in the near future.

You know, in spite of all I have written above I don't actually have a Hi-Life card. Maybe I wouldn't be a member of any club which would have me; maybe I just hate restrictions on my eating; maybe I live with the mortal fear that the many chefs and restaurateurs I know round here would tut and think me cheap as I apologetically slid the card back to them with the bill.

Maybe I just have more money than sense.

Either way, hopefully that sheds some light on why restaurants sign up to the whole 'Eat for £5/Two for one' schtick; it does seem it works for at least some of them.

Ah well, if nothing else at least let me put off my crushing Sunday afternoon workload for another twenty minutes...

Cheers

Thom

[Bapi]

Bloody hell Thom -are you a bloody psychic? I have been thinking about a Hi-Life card for couple of weeks and was just about to ask about one

Problem is there is a Yorkshire card and a Northwest card. So getting both may prove a little expensive.

Edited March 4, 2007 by Bapi (log)

[Gary Marshall]

as an owner i had a big objection to these eat out for a £5 type offers.

they usually came with a list of conditions, must be specific telegraph menu, offered at certain times etc etc.

but my biggest gripe was we either compromised our standards to do a menu that we cover costs on at £5 which wouldn't be representative of what we did (don't get me wrong we weren't £17 scallops type of place) or we lost money on it, we couldn't do our usual thing on those prices, and lets not forget the VAT man doesn't heed special offers he still wants his best-part-of-20% so it's actually 2 course for £4-odd!

the previous owners did the telegraph offer the year before and we very busy people were bringing in handfuls of tokens apparently, however none of them returned to pay full price which is surely the payback for the restaurant concerned.

so we declined their offer to do it and got loads of calls asking us to reconsider, we didn't. I later thought maybe we'd slipped up and i checked the list of north yorkshire pubs involved, none of the main players had bothered either it was just the chains and the carverys, so i think we all came to the same conclusion.

you hope it will bring in future customers but you just get the cheapskates who will be somewhere else next week wherever the offer is.

i'm so glad i don't have to worry about this shit now!

bapi, don't waste your money on a highlife card, sarah got bought one , we never used it and we even got a free one , never used it. You can only use them once in many of the places, and as thom says if it's a regular haunt you'll just look tight.

[thom]

Add sadly Bapi Juniper is not signed up to Hi-Life either so you will still have to get your hand in your pocket.

Cheers

Thom

[Mrs Woman]

Bapi, I may be completely wrong on this but I think if you get a Platinum card you can use it wherever.

We have one but have only used it once in the past few months (there's not many places I want to visit in the Chester/North Wales section - it is mostly Brewers Fayre muck), but we intend to go and try in in Manchester next week and in Liverpool very soon.

As for the newspaper offers, there is never much of note for the Cheshire region either.

[bakerestates]

we have participated in the daily telegraph pay for 1 main course get 2. We have not done the Times 2 courses for £5 as I am at a loss to work out how to even pay for the food at this price.

In the first year the 2For1 bought 800 people in three months (available Mon-Thurs lunch and Mon-Tues dinner). It ran June, July August. A busy time of year anyway but as we were in our second year I saw it as a marketing cost.

In the second year we limited it to Mon-Tues dinner and Mon-Tues lunch). 400 extra people.

This year it is running May-July which could entice me into it given I am packed in August anyway and May (except for the two bank holidays) can be dodgy as well as June.

I will restrict it to quieter services (Sun-Tues dinner, Mon-Thur lunch) but as in previous years, I will offer as much of my menu as possible. Main courses over £12 generally don't get on it. We don't print it on DT letterhead, just highlight the offer dishes on our printed menu and blackboard.

The average number of customers does increase during offer time for that time of year. We do get repeat custom at other times of the year from it. We do get people having two/three courses and more drinks because they are getting a main free. We get regulars who generally dine with us once a week, eating out twice a week, once with a voucher.

We still get those who only drink tap water, have one course, don't leave a tip and only come back when the next deal is on. There are not many other places around me of a similar offering that participate, but I am not sure whether that would change my mind as I know the punters will go where they offers are.

Edited March 5, 2007 by bakerestates (log)

[Infrasonic]

I had a platinum hi-life for three years and a bronze before that for a couple.

Courtesy of those babys, I ate ALC at Le Mont (RIP), Establishment (RIP), Lounge Ten, The French @ the Midland, Palmiro, River Room @ the Lowry, Harvey Nicks, Choice, TNQ, etc. two for one on the food. I use the saving to get a better bottle of wine, and found that quite often, that way they wouldn't mark the card, allowing repeat discount visits! Two courses at The French garnered a saving of £41!

You can get one free that's valid for a couple of months as a new sign up.

I let it lapse this year because there are so many restaurants doing their own deals now ( database, emails, easy...) or using sites like Manchester Confidential, that PAYING for the hi-life seemed not such a good deal. (£45/85)

Tip. If you let your membership lapse, they start to send you all sorts of offers, like two cards for the price of one etc.

There is truth in the rumour that resterauteurs refer to it as the 'low-life card' as there is a tendency for some people to take the piss, wanting tap water, expecting to get bookings at Xmas, not tipping etc.

Whilst the fab Juniper has never been on Hi-Life, it does do it's Tuesday fixed price (£30 ish) many courses tasting specials. Have a look at the website for details. I've been on a couple and I think they represent very good value, especially the fishy ones.

I

Edited March 5, 2007 by Infrasonic (log)

[Gary Marshall]

slightly off topic but what's the food / wine list like at the french thingy at the midland?

[thom]

RE The French - Not been there recently but I think even post refurb it is painfully old-fashioned, competent if uninspiring and expensive. Aside from that I've found the general hotel food terrible - I had a caesar salad which defied belief (chopped iceberg, no anchovies, no croutons etc)

That said, the owners have come out in the media recently and claimed that despite the demise of Le Mont and Establishment fine dining is in rude health in Manchester and that they are going all out for a Michelin star.

Hmmm... Good luck.

Interestingly The French was the last place to have a star in Manchester (city centre) some 34 years ago and I did read somewhere that they got the first ever Michelin star in the UK? Seems unlikely but can anyone more nerdish than me confirm or deny this rumour?

Cheers

Thom

[Infrasonic]

slightly off topic but what's the food / wine list like at the french thingy at the midland?

←

Very good. Very "old school". Maitre d' (Bruno) has been there 38 years.

http://www.qhotels.co.uk/hotels/the-midlan...ter-manchester/

For some reason they don't have the menu/wine list on-line

When I went I had; Five queen scallops as a starter, gorgeous, but £14.95, just as well it was on HL. Mains were poached turbot (£22), very good but slightly overdone for my liking(I like fish to be just cooked). With a bottle of white burgundy. Skipped desserts and had very good coffee/petit fours.

It's a dress up and blow the budget kind of place with the GF/wife. I really enjoyed it

Cutting edge it isn't, and Juniper et al are more "exciting" food wise. I'd still go back in a shot though because the whole package is super smooth.

I

Edited March 5, 2007 by Infrasonic (log)

[Infrasonic]

For some reason they don't have the menu/wine list on-line

Just emailed the customer relations dept. for Q hotels to bitch about this....

Bit daft in this day and age....

I

[Winot]

It's a dress up and blow the budget kind of place with the GF/wife.

But not at the same time I trust.

[Infrasonic]

It's a dress up and blow the budget kind of place with the GF/wife.

But not at the same time I trust.

←

On the contrary, as it's called The French, it would only be in keeping to take the mistress and wife

Menage a trois for everybody sir?

I

[Gary Marshall]

I know someone at Q hotels i shall pass your comments on

[SpikeyD]

Interestingly The French was the last place to have a star in Manchester (city centre) some 34 years ago and I did read somewhere that they got the first ever Michelin star in the UK? Seems unlikely but can anyone more nerdish than me confirm or deny this rumour?

←

Hopefully not a nerdish response, but my Dad owned a restaurant in the '60s, which for many years was the only place in Manchester, along with the Midland French Room, as it was then called, to be in the Good Food Guide. He claims that they never got a star - at least while he was active up there - but his memory may be less than perfect by now, given he's 85.

I can still remember, though, with delight, the look of sheer horror on some diners' faces when they realised that the steak tartare being prepared by Sergio, the head waiter, really wasn't going to be cooked. To be fair, we're talking 1962 or thereabouts, though.

I wonder if anyone reading this can work out which restaurant I'm talking about

It's a sad reflection, though, that my brother who still lives up in that part of the world claims he still has to journey to London to eat really well.

[Gary Marshall]

somewhere on the viamichelin site there is a history of all the uk stars so that i assume will provide a definitive answer

[erica graham]

1974 & 1975 acording to viamichelin!!

Sad, but having a day off sitting on the sofa, so plenty of time for google searches!!!!

Edited March 6, 2007 by erica graham (log)

[cachan]

Michelin UK/Ireland stars history :-

http://www.michelin.co.uk/travel/red2006/index.htm

[Bapi]

Add sadly Bapi Juniper is not signed up to Hi-Life either so you will still have to get your hand in your pocket.

Cheers

Thom

←

That's a little rich coming from the man who cried like a baby because I forgot to take the reciept from a recent meal we shared, and which you were hoping to claim back on.

Thanks for all the info about Hi-Life chaps. I agree with issue about it looking a little miserly to use it- but as a lot of the places are on the "to do with the missus list" in Manchester( Sapporro Teppanyaki, EastzEast, Harvey Nicks etc)- I think one can justify it by the fact that just four or five meals out - would pay for the initial expense. Even if, as you say Gary, you may only use it once at each place.

Cheers

B

[thom]

It was research Bapi, research, and therefore an entirely reasonable expense in the eyes of Mr Taxman.

Back to Hi-Life, although you are only meant to use the card in each place once (they have a system of numbered squares on the back of the card which venues tick off) in practice they never ever bother so you can use it in most places ad infinitum.

Cheers

Thom