Dealing with problems at restaurants

[tommy]

The suspense is killing me; will somebody please tell me about the virtual arena where drrevenue is known to the likes of Plotnicki, Cabrales, Brown, and Jaybee as a brilliant and erudite gourmet?

they all reside in the center of the universe. the rest of us simply revolve around them and are here only for their amusement.

[Marlene]

I'm sorry, I have trouble respecting anyone who calls someone an "idiot" just because they express a diferent opinion, especially if that opinion doesn't jive with what they want to hear. If this Chef is a "friend" drrevenue could have/should have picked up the phone and called him. Otherwise, as far as I'm concerned, the restaurant handled it on the spot by waiving the check.

We spent probably $12,000 a year and up in restaurants, and if we have a problem in a restaurant, we expect the establishment to deal with it then and there. Then it's over. And that includes restaurants where we are good friends with the chef/owner/ general manager etc.

And heaven help his "clients" if this guy is a motivational speaker!

[Jason Perlow]

The suspense is killing me; will somebody please tell me about the virtual arena where drrevenue is known to the likes of Plotnicki, Cabrales, Brown, and Jaybee as a brilliant and erudite gourmet? Is it one of the wine boards? Clearly he's got some fans, but all the rest of us know about him is what he has posted here. And I think I speak for most of those who are new to drrevenue that we are thus far seriously underwhelmed. I mean, the guy can't even make a convincing case for himself when he's in complete control of the information flow; I'd love to see how badly he'd do if we could actually hear the other side. In any event, I think those who think he's a friend should pitch in and buy Dr. Revenue a few sessions with Dr. Anger Management, because when he gave this thread the title "Dealing with problems at restaurants" he really meant it.

He seems to be some sort of motivational speaker/management consultant/guru kind of guy.

I can't find any cooking/eating/food/restaurant posts he's made. He seems to have just showed up here in order to trash his former friend with whom he is now royally pissed.

Here you go:Drrevenue.com

A motivational speaker who calls the co-founder of eGullet an "idiot" when confronted with a contrary opinion. Remind me not to attend any of his seminars.

[Jaymes]

It sounds like the chef told him, in effect, "tough shit" when he complained.  If that's the case, wouldn't you be pissed?

I would JB, if indeed that is the case.

But first, I'd doublecheck to be sure I have the story straight.

I'd think the least I could do for a "friend" or even a close acquaintance would be to give him the benefit of the doubt before I got all hot and fired off a sharply-worded letter to him.

And then, if it turned out that he HAD just told me "tough shit" I would write another letter saying that I felt dismissed and betrayed, adding that "you are a horse's ass and I will never darken your door again."

But for me to look up a food website and go on it and publicly savage him, well he'd have to do more than that....

He'd have to burn my wife and steal my ranchhouse and rape my cattle.

Oh wait.... I don't have a wife or ranchhouse or cattle....

[tommy]

I can't find any cooking/eating/food/restaurant posts he's made.  He seems to have just showed up here in order to trash his former friend with whom he is now royally pissed.

that's not necessarily a fair statement. his first post was interesting to some extent. however, the thread kinda dropped out of sight.

please to click me.

[Stone]

I think it is kind of strange that people have attacked him for being angry that he was mistreated by someone he considered not just a chef but a "friend."  Perhaps the chef meant to say more than his "disappointed" statement conveyed.

As someone who attacked Dr. Revenue, I'd like to say that I didn't do it because he was angry. I did it because I thought his response to his so-called friend was so over-the-line arrogant that, since he asked for our opinion, he deserved the criticism.

The fact that Dr. $$$ has befriended chefs all over the world suggests little more than that he likes to drop cash in order to be amongst the gourmet glitterati. But, I wouldn't care if it was Julia Child herself. No one should write an email like that under those circumstances. And anyone that does deserves to be told that they were out of line.

[tommy]

No one should write an email like that under those circumstances.  And anyone that does deserves to be told that they were out of line.

additionally, email is rarely an acceptable form of communication, outside of business needs. people skills 101 suggests this. although, i myself was out that day.

[Jaymes]

I can't find any cooking/eating/food/restaurant posts he's made.  He seems to have just showed up here in order to trash his former friend with whom he is now royally pissed.

that's not necessarily a fair statement. his first post was interesting to some extent. however, the thread kinda dropped out of sight.

please to click me.

You're right about that T; it was a good post.

Wish he'd stuck to that sort of thing instead of a personal vendetta.

[jaybee]

What do you think you are "buying" when you buy a fine restaurant meal?

....

After the fact...looking beyond one meal...building a VIP position...

I always say "thank you".  I always make sure I remember the names of people who have provided my quality experience.   I generally follow up with a written "thank you".

I often direct friends, business associates and even casual acquaintances to a restaurant I have enjoyed.  I will go so far as to call and make the reservation for this "referred guest".  That is how I reciprocate and maintain "visibility" at restaurants I like and want to return to.

Good detective work Tommy. The above part of his post is revealing in light of his complaint. Clearly he invested a lot of effort in building a "VIP" position at this place and was chagrined to discover that he wasn't as "VIP" as he thought he was. Or at least the way he was treated after the fact by the chef/owner conveyed that impression. I'd react strongly if that happened to me. Wouldn't you?

[tommy]

I'd react strongly if that happened to me.  Wouldn't you?

i can't tell you how i'd react, but i can tell you how i *wouldn't* react.

[LaNiña]

Rachel, I believe that if the actor's name is ABOVE the title in the program (ie leading actor, not supporting actor), and that person it out, you can get your money back. The policy doesn't apply to supporting cast members.

[mynamejoe]

What do you think you are "buying" when you buy a fine restaurant meal?

....

After the fact...looking beyond one meal...building a VIP position...

I always say "thank you".  I always make sure I remember the names of people who have provided my quality experience.   I generally follow up with a written "thank you".

I often direct friends, business associates and even casual acquaintances to a restaurant I have enjoyed.  I will go so far as to call and make the reservation for this "referred guest".  That is how I reciprocate and maintain "visibility" at restaurants I like and want to return to.

Good detective work Tommy. The above part of his post is revealing in light of his complaint. Clearly he invested a lot of effort in building a "VIP" position at this place and was chagrined to discover that he wasn't as "VIP" as he thought he was. Or at least the way he was treated after the fact by the chef/owner conveyed that impression. I'd react strongly if that happened to me. Wouldn't you?

No, but only because I would never try to put myself in that position to begin with. By that, I mean this "dining with an agenda" crap. When I go out, I go out to enjoy good food and good company. I'm not seeking to elevate my status as a customer. A pair of restaurants that I frequent happens to be run by a family which includes some friends of mine. I actually have to sneak in the door at times, just so I don't end up having half of what I order comped or have special dishes sent out to me. Don't get me wrong, I appreciate that kind of treatment. I do have some sympathy for their food-cost, though. Outside of when I'm in the back cooking, I really don't need my ego stroked that badly to go through what this guy goes through.

[jaybee]

Outside of when I'm in the back cooking, I really don't need my ego stroked that badly to go through what this guy goes through.

I know a couple of top chefs and when we go to their places we get treated a little differently than the "average"customer. I don't do it for ego, but for a better eating experience. Leslie Brenner's book on Daniel describes their practice of doing a "soigné for certain VIPs. I wouldn't mind being on that list, and it's not for the benefit of my ego!

But then I guess there are those who either don't care that much, don't think it's right or just resent it. I can understand all three, but that doesn't make it wrong to enjoy getting special treatment.

[mynamejoe]

Leslie Brenner's book on Daniel describes their practice of doing a "soigné for certain VIPs.  I wouldn't mind being on that list, and it's not for the benefit of my ego!

But would you go to the lengths of mapping out a strategy (as drrevenue has) of leveraging your way onto that list? I'm guessing no.

You're definitely on the spot with there being nothing wrong with enjoying such treatment; I only try to avoid it at times because my friends are almost too generous. They won't even let me buy them a drink later at the neighborhood bar!

[John Whiting]

Here you go:Drrevenue.com

Physician, heal thyself!

[Rachel Perlow]

A pair of restaurants that I frequent happens to be run by a family which includes some friends of mine. I actually have to sneak in the door at times, just so I don't end up having half of what I order comped or have special dishes sent out to me. Don't get me wrong, I appreciate that kind of treatment. I do have some sympathy for their food-cost, though.

Joe - I know how you feel. There is a restaurant that Jason and I frequent because we love it. It is automatically the answer (from both of us) to anyone's question of "what's your favorite restaurant?" This is a small (less than 25 seats), family-run place. There is no way for us to "sneak in" - they know when we are there. We go there about once a week and would probably go there more frequently, except they always take at least 50% off the bill.* (This is most definitely not why we like the place or why we refer people there.) We cannot stop them from doing this. I have even said to them "hey, we'd like to come more often, but don't want you to think we are taking advantage of your generocity." They insist they would never think this, but still, we feel uncomfortable going there as often as we might for fear of them feeling taken advantage of. We have started to help them out in other ways, by hosting their website, so that we can feel that this is the way they are paying us for that service. It does feel great to be part of a restaurant's "inner circle" and have them make special things just for us. But that relationship grew from our initial appreciation for the place, people and food. If you have this kind of special relationship with a restaurant, how did it develop and how do you feel about it now?

____________________________

* We had to make up an interesting story about why they couldn't comp us the time we were there with Jason's "boss" who was paying (actually a food reviewer for a prominent paper).

[tommy]

It does feel great to be part of a restaurant's "inner circle" and have them make special things just for us. But that relationship grew from our initial appreciation for the place, people and food. If you have this kind of special relationship with a restaurant, how did it develop and how do you feel about it now?

yeah, well, just wait til KT isn't there one night. you'll be right back here slamming her and her place.

[Rachel Perlow]

We've been there many times when she wasn't there. It's just as good - she learned from her mom and aunt anyway. And I purposefully left out the name of the restaurant (although many of you are familiar with our speaking about it) because I don't want you all to hold it against them.

[Jaymes]

In my opinion, Dr. Revenge handled the whole thing wrong.

He leaves the restaurant after the staff had done all they really could about the situation. He's happy, laughing and smiling... leaves tips, wine.

Next day, manager undoubtedly tells Hans, "Dr. VeryImportant was here last night and didn't like the food at all."

Hans says, "How did you leave it with him? Is he angry? Should I call him?"

Manager, "Well, we comped him. He left a tip and some wine for the servers. I think he was fine when he left, but you probably should give him a call anyway. I know he expects it."

Hans thinks, "Okay, it ended alright. He wasn't screaming and throwing plates. I'll get in touch with him as soon as I get a chance. After all, he's a 'friend' so I'll be speaking with him pretty soon anyway."

A few days go by and Dr. BigEgo hasn't gotten any personal groveling. So he sends an email saying "I'm surprised I haven't heard from you."

Now what is the implied rest of that message?

I think it's: "Didn't you hear about the terrible thing that happened to me in your restaurant and it's all your fault? Yes, I got comped, and yes your staff apologized, but that's not good enough. I expect a personal apology from you. I expect you to beg for my forgiveness and promise it will never happen again. It's been four whole days and so far nothing??? Just who do you think you are to make me wait so long? Don't you realize how important I am? Don't you know how much I spend in your restaurant? Don't you keep track? Well, I do and it's over $4000. You owe me. I don't expect my misbehaving friends to make me wait to hear how sorry they are!"

To which Hans (and it appears that English is his second language) replies, "I am disappointed in your reaction on Saturday night."

What if he meant to say, "I am disappointed regarding your reaction about the food. I had thought I left my restaurant in capable hands, and I am sorry to hear that I had not."

Since, according to Dr.$$, the doctor and his party had not done anything untoward in the restaurant, what on earth could Hans have been likely pointing to other than that he was disappointed that the Dr.'s experience had been less than satisfactory?

What Dr.Ego should have done was to immediately either pick up the telephone, or get in the car and go to the restaurant and say something like, "I'm not sure exactly what you mean by saying that you are disappointed in my reaction. What did you mean by that? You're disappointed that we sent the food back, or you're disappointed that we HAD to send the food back?"

But that's not what the Dr. did. He immediately blasted off a scathing email from which the friendship, if there ever was one, is not likely to recover.

If anyone doubts the egotistical explosive nature of Dr.BigBucks when he is crossed, I remind you of his response to Fat Guy.

Especially the line about, "I don't know what you do for a living and I really don't care."

You are an idiot!

I don't know what you do for a living and I really don't care.

You just don't get it!

I'm a customer.  That is a person who spends money for food, service, etc. in a restaurant.

I don't know whether you have ever owned or operated a restaurant.  My guess is that you have not.

Customers are like little gold nuggets.  Customers who know food, appreciate food and wine and respond to good service are few and far between.

When you have one who helps you-when you have one who spends money with you--when you have one who dines with you 10-20+ times a year, you have a "big gold mine"...you don't do anything to cut off that gold mine.

You seem to think that good customers grow on trees and come out every season.

There is no issue here.  We dined at a very good restaurant tonight.  I mentioned the situation at Rockenwagner to the manager of this restaurant who used to work at several good restaurants--she could not believe the reaction from Hans.

You seem to think that I need that restaurant.  Frankly, I don't "need" any restaurant.  I can afford to go any where any time--that means that I'm one of those customers that any every restauranteur wants...

You are clearly totally mis-informed about what makes a business [which is what a restaurant is, in case you've forgotten or never knew!] work.

So again I repeat--there is no issue here --I'm the customer.  I handled the situation as a gentleman--remember I tipped the servers, left great wine for them and said, "don't worry about it".

The problem started when the stupid owner became defensive and obnoxious...now I have to respond to stupid, obnoxious people who don't get it...this site is sort of fun because you see what stupid idiots out there are willing to do to defend people like Hans Rockenwagner who could have ended this whole thing by simply calling me--remember he has my number and has asked my help with his business more than once--so as I said, you are an idiot!

How'd YOU like to have this guy as a 'friend.'

[Bux]

I know a couple of top chefs and when we go to their places we get treated a little differently than the "average"customer.  I don't do it for ego, but for a better eating experience.  Leslie Brenner's book on Daniel describes their practice of doing a "soigné for certain VIPs.  I wouldn't mind being on that list, and it's not for the benefit of my ego!

But then I guess there are those who either don't care that much, don't think it's right or just resent it.  I can understand all three, but that doesn't make it wrong to enjoy getting special treatment.

Well said. I might have said not just for the benefit of my ego! I recognize that I enjoy being treated with respect and being made to feel good about myself. Although Ducasse stretches my budget, I felt really good there--only I didn't get special ego boosting service, I got the regular ego boost every John and Jane gets when they eat there.

Interestingly enough, special attention used to make me uncomfortable. I felt I was in the restaurant's debt. I suppose that was the reason it was offered. A restaurant knows it will slip up one of these days, so it offers a bit of attention to someone spotted as a regular or potential regular as insurance against the possible slip up. As I understood this and recognized my value to a restaurant I relaxed and enjoyed whatever attention I got. There are limits to my debt as well. When a neighborhood place we frequented regularly wouldn't honor my request to enforce the no smoking law, I was insulted by the free dessert they offered and ended my relationship with the restaurant, although not really abruptly. I returned after a while to see that the policy had not changed and the food had deteriorated. I deduced they had made the decision to cater to smokers rather than diners and that it was no longer my kind of place.

More recently I've been the recipient of special attention in more upscale places. In some cases it's been due to the company in my party, but sometimes it's all mine. That old uncomfortable feeling kicked in again until I was convinced by certain cooks and chefs that they really appreciated my interest in the food and enjoyed cooking for me. That was an honor that made me aware of my contribution to their ego. This, by the way, is a theme I've picked up here on eGullet from time to time. Even first time diners in a really fine restaurant may note that their service picks up from formally proper to enthusiastic as the staff begins to understand their enthusiasm and manages to convey it to the kitchen. I've heard of diners getting little complimentary treats on their first visit. I believe this happened to us at Veyrat where I went in wondering if the guy was a charlatan and left feeling he was not only a great chef, but the most generous of chefs, even if he was emptying my wallet at the time.

[Jinmyo]

Um, perhaps we should get to know drrevenue a bit more before we make assumptions about his motivations, intentions, and so on.

We have pages here of posts that basically trash the man.

[Stone]

"Making your way in the world today

Takes everything you've got;

Taking a break from all your worries

Sure would help a lot.

Wouldn't you like to get away?

All those night when you've got no lights,

The check is in the mail;

And your little angel

Hung the cat up by it's tail never caught that line, it's hilarious;

And your third fiance didn't show;

Sometimes you want to go

Where everybody knows your name,

And they're always glad you came;

You want to be where you can see,

Our troubles are all the same;

You want to be where everybody knows your name.

Roll out of bed, Mr. Coffee's dead;

The morning's looking bright;

And your shrink ran off to Europe,

And didn't even write;

And your husband wants to be a girl;

Be glad there's one place in the world

Where everybody knows your name,

And they're always glad you came;

You want to go where people know,

People are all the same;

You want to go where everybody knows your name.

Where everybody knows your name,

And they're always glad you came;

Where everybody knows your name,

And they're always glad you came;

(fade out)"

We all like going where we're known. Where dining is becomes more like dining with friends. And, of course, the little ego boost of having the owner/MD/Host come up and greet us by name.

But there comes a point when . . . .

I say we stop dicussing the fellow while he's romping through Europe, which is a little unfair. My guess is that he'll defend himself when he returns.

[Fat Guy]

Um, perhaps we should get to know drrevenue a bit more before we make assumptions about his motivations, intentions, and so on.

Agree. We've had a few users who started poorly, got called on it, and are now good eGullet citizens. There's always hope.

We have pages here of posts that basically trash the man.

Disagree. We have a few posts trashing him, and we have him calling us a bunch of idiots. He has several friends here who have defended him, and there are plenty of posts that have made the argument against him.

[Jinmyo]

Disagree. We have a few posts trashing him, and we have him calling us a bunch of idiots.  He has several friends here who have defended him, and there are plenty of posts that have made the argument against him.

Oh. I thought he only called you an idiot. He called us all idiots?

[Fat Guy]

"now I have to respond to stupid, obnoxious people who don't get it...this site is sort of fun because you see what stupid idiots out there are willing to do to defend people like Hans Rockenwagner"