Dealing with problems at restaurants

[tommy]

Let me just thumb my nose at the anti-Plotnicki crusade long enough to say:

If I buy a ticket to see Bruce Springsteen, I want to see Bruce Springsteen, not Bruce Springsteen's band.

deacon, you're smart enough to know that this is a completely horrible analogy.

regards,

analogy police.

[Jaymes]

Let me just thumb my nose at the anti-Plotnicki crusade long enough to say:

If I buy a ticket to see Bruce Springsteen, I want to see Bruce Springsteen, not Bruce Springsteen's band.

deacon, you're smart enough to know that this is a completely horrible analogy.

regards,

analogy police.

Deacon -

I would agree with you if you were discussing a cooking demonstration by said chef.

If, for example, you had paid $100 for a cooking demonstration by Bourdain, you would be going for more than just the final product. You would also be going for the show, the personality, the celebrity.

No matter how much Bourdain instructed a surrogate (i.e. "be witty, be clever, be insightful, be profane"), the end product could not possibly be the same as watching Bourdain himself.

But otherwise, your analogy doesn't hold up.

[Deacon]

But IMHO, the [bruce Springsteen] analogy is not valid.

Ok, fair enough. I think I have an even better analogy. How about:

You've paid to see a certain symphony conducted by a certain conductor. On the night you were to attend, the conductor is not conducting. The management assures you that the symphony will be composed of the same musicians as always, playing their usual program, but with no one at the podium. Are you justified in thinking that perhaps the experience you came for will not be provided?

And until Hunter S. Thompson learns how to cook, no one's replacing Bourdain. . . .

[Jaymes]

But IMHO, the [bruce Springsteen] analogy is not valid.

Ok, fair enough. I think I have an even better analogy. How about:

You've paid to see a certain symphony conducted by a certain conductor. On the night you were to attend, the conductor is not conducting. The management assures you that the symphony will be composed of the same musicians as always, playing their usual program, but with no one at the podium. Are you justified in thinking that perhaps the experience you came for will not be provided?

I think you are justified in "thinking the experience you came for" perhaps will not be provided.

And if the performance were lousy, I'd think you'd have just reason to demand your money back.

And Dr. R deserved his money back. And he got it.

[tommy]

You've paid to see a certain symphony conducted by a certain conductor. On the night you were to attend, the conductor is not conducting. The management assures you that the symphony will be composed of the same musicians as always, playing their usual program, but with no one at the podium. Are you justified in thinking that perhaps the experience you came for will not be provided?

.

perhaps they announce such news upon your arrival, not much unlike when a big star of a play is not performing for whatever reason. i believe you have the choice of a refund or a new night.

but now it seems that we're on to something different.

[southern girl]

Although I am not a VIP in the true defintion of the word...I will relate the following.

I am a very loyal friend and customer to a pair of chef's here in Las Vegas. I have known them for years both here and in another state where they worked. They consider me a friend...and when in the restaurant...as they call loyal customers...friend of the house.

I was bringing a group of 12 in for dinner. ..one chef was on maternity leave and the other was participating in a charity event in another state. The GM called me...just to let me know...I had no qualms about taking my guests with neither chef in the house. Mid-way through the meal, I received a phone call...it was the chef calling from the charity event just to make sure we were having a good evening and not wanting for anything. That is how loyal friends of the house should be treated...personal friendships aside. I realize the phone call was "above the call of duty"...but, I watched the GM check with other regulars to make sure everything was up to snuff...and checking in on newbies too to make sure they were enjoying their experiences...This is good business...it is how drrevenue should have been treated since he was a regular customer IMO.

[Jaymes]

Although I am not a VIP in the true defintion of the word...I will relate the following.

I am a very loyal friend and customer to a pair of chef's here in Las Vegas. I have known them for years both here and in another state where they worked. They consider me a friend...and when in the restaurant...as they call loyal customers...friend of the house.

I was bringing a group of 12 in for dinner. ..one chef was on maternity leave and the other was participating in a charity event in another state. The GM called me...just to let me know...I had no qualms about taking my guests with neither chef in the house. Mid-way through the meal, I received a phone call...it was the chef calling from the charity event just to make sure we were having a good evening and not wanting for anything. That is how loyal friends of the house should be treated...personal friendships aside. I realize the phone call was "above the call of duty"...but, I watched the GM check with other regulars to make sure everything was up to snuff...and checking in on newbies too to make sure they were enjoying their experiences...This is good business...it is how drrevenue should have been treated since he was a regular customer IMO.

I think we can agree that from all appearances, you are a gracious and appreciative guest.

Had your experience not turned out thusly, I strongly doubt you would have sent them a harshly-worded email and then come on a net chat-room and savaged your "friends." I think you would have chalked it up to experience, and maybe discussed it with them discreetly at a later date.

We simply don't know the whole story of Dr. Revenge's episode.

What we do know is that he believes he got a less-than-satisfactory meal, for which the staff apologized and then "comped" him.

And that then he got his feelings hurt.

And that then, he got even.

[glenn]

regards,

analogy police.

analogy 2 - the who, half of whom are dead. out of morbid curiosity, did they offer a refund after entwistle died?

[robert brown]

Steve Shaw, regarding your comment on the "Site Recommendations" forum about the sensitivity of my bullshit detector, I dare to say that I am a seasoned veteran at detecting bullshit, especially on-going bullshit. How Dr. Revenue's being upset began, I am willing to guess, is with the realization that Rockenwagner has been bullshitting him and being disingenuous all along, and that Dr. Revenue at last, to his great chagrin, finally realized it. For several years, I am willing to bet, Rockenwagner picked Dr. Revenue's brains for business advice, offering something much less valuable and scarce in return. Rockenwagner showed his true colors, possibly in a situation in which he didn't want, or could not afford, to sacrifice any restaurant revenue. Whether or not Dr. Revenue was justified in airing his grievance in a forum as he did is hardly going to elicit a uniform response from interested members. I think he was justified in naming names, or THE name. I would have done the same. I support Dr. Revenue's having done what he has done. Rockenwagner should have had his manager call to say that this night was not a good one to visit the restaurant as the manager himself knew. The chef was clearly ill-equipped to serve a dinner that was up to standards. If my bullshit detector is off form today, I won't mind being corrected just as I am sure Dr. Revenue will tell us if somehow there has been a legitimate misunderstanding from the start, as opposed to phony after-the-fact excuses the chef might offer.

[stefanyb]

I am a very loyal friend and customer to a pair of chef's here in Las Vegas. I have known them for years both here and in another state where they worked. They consider me a friend...and when in the restaurant...as they call loyal customers...friend of the house.

I was bringing a group of 12 in for dinner. ..one chef was on maternity leave and the other was participating in a charity event in another state. The GM called me...just to let me know...I had no qualms about taking my guests with neither chef in the house. Mid-way through the meal, I received a phone call...it was the chef calling from the charity event just to make sure we were having a good evening and not wanting for anything. That is how loyal friends of the house should be treated...personal friendships aside. I realize the phone call was "above the call of duty"...but, I watched the GM check with other regulars to make sure everything was up to snuff...and checking in on newbies too to make sure they were enjoying their experiences...This is good business...it is how drrevenue should have been treated since he was a regular customer IMO.

I think we can agree that from all appearances, you are a gracious and appreciative guest.

Had your experience not turned out thusly, I strongly doubt you would have sent them a harshly-worded email and then come on a net chat-room and savaged your "friends." I think you would have chalked it up to experience, and maybe discussed it with them discreetly at a later date.

We simply don't know the whole story of Dr. Revenge's episode.

What we do know is that he believes he got a less-than-satisfactory meal, for which the staff apologized and then "comped" him.

And that then he got his feelings hurt.

And that then, he got even.

exactly

[Jaymes]

I think he was justified in naming names, or THE name.

Then why didn't he name his own? Why take anonymous potshots?

[Andy Lynes]

How Dr. Revenue's being upset began, I am willing to guess, is with the realization that Rockenwagner has been bullshitting him and being disingenuous all along,

Robert, can you let us know if you actually know Dr Revenue, then we can better understand where exactly it is you are coming from. Thanks.

[robert brown]

Andy, I have never met or spoken with Dr. Revenue, although I have sent a few e-mails to him and members of his family, great gastronomes all. I don't know the details of his relationship or friendship with Rockenwagner. He did say right at the beginning that he has helped the chef and his wife with their business planning, which I factored in to my theory of why Dr. Revenue reacted in the way that he did. Remember, my scenario is based largely on the fact that Steve Shaw called into question the reliability of my bullshit detector. I believe I have doped out the reasons correctly and am willing to stand corrected. So where I am coming from is some minimal correspondence with Dr. Revenue, defense of my position, a sense of moral outrage and enough experience with the restaurant profession to know that it is yet another in which not all hands are clean.

[Andy Lynes]

Thanks Robert.

[tommy]

analogy 2 - the who, half of whom are dead.  out of morbid curiosity, did they offer a refund after entwistle died?

not that i'm aware of at the MSG shows.

[tommy]

a yahoo search of "dr revenue" leads to a website. this, clearly, is not conclusive. although i can't imagine many people would actually name themselves "dr revenue."

[stefanyb]

Drrevenue.com

BTW, from LA

[glenn]

This bears repeating...

Bad Detective - NY Dolls

Watching the Detectives - Elvis Costello

Detective Tracy - Poster Children

(She Was a) Hotel Detective - They Might be Giants

Pete, King of the Detectives - Big Black

[jaybee]

I fuck up all the time, and sometimes I refuse to admit it, and on occasion someone cuts me some slack and forgives me even though I don't deserve it. Those people are known as true friends, and I don't forget it.

I read the poster's story to be two fuck ups. The first, and forgivable, is the poor meal. The second, and less forgivable, is the arrogant and ungracious response of the chef/owner to the diner's complaint. Even if there had been no history between them, the chef owed the complainant more than an expression at his disappointment at his reaction. Give their history, the diner felt betrayal of the relationship he felt existed between himself and the chef. Now it may be that he over-estimated his relationship or importance in the mind of the chef. If so, the chef made a grave error. I think the chef prover himself to be either stupid or arrogant.

I don't blame drrevenue if he stops going there. I suggest he send the guy a personal letter, explaining why he will no longer eat there, It has nothing to do with the bad meal and everthing to do with the bad attitude of the chef. Perhaps given the chance he will change his tune. If not, fuck him.

[Stone]

analogy 2 - the who, half of whom are dead.  out of morbid curiosity, did they offer a refund after entwistle died?

not that i'm aware of at the MSG shows.

No. They put on one hell of a show. Entwistle can never be replaced, and the "replacement" didn't even try (the one downside to the show was that he was not loud enough where the bass was needed). But we all got our money's worth.

And can we talk about Pete Townshend for a second? I saw them one the first money tour in 1982. He was never a great guitar player (Live at Leeds, notwithstanding.) I've seen them twice in two years. I can honestly say that while the rest of us have spent the past 20 years getting older, that guy has gotten better. He is now one of the best guitarists I've seen. And he still puts on a better show than anyone in the business.

God bless Pete Townshend.

[jaybee]

He's a brand new poster. How do you all know you know him personally? I assume this means that one or another of the people saying they know him were the ones that told him about egullet. Thanks alot.

Dr. Revenue is not a fake or a flake. He and his dining companion are dedicated and expeienced "eaters" and, I believe, have befriended many great chefs in the US and in France, who appreciate their knowledge of food and their patronage.

I think it is kind of strange that people have attacked him for being angry that he was mistreated by someone he considered not just a chef but a "friend." Perhaps the chef meant to say more than his "disappointed" statement conveyed.

He replied that he was "disappointed in your reaction Saturday night".

If the guy is German, this could have been his way of saying, "I was disssapointed that you had a bad experience here Saturday night." Which I would take as an "I'm sorry." and move on. I suspect that the follow up email did not give the guy a chance the explain that he may have meant "I'm sorry," but once received, the lines in the sand were drawn. I don't know.

The fact that drrevenue used quotes around the word "friend" suggests that this was not literally a friend, but someone with whom he had a friendly relationship.

As for posting the story here, why not? Sure he was looking for some support in his umbrage. What's wrong with that? Reading the thread, he got angry when people here attacked him for being angry at the chef. It sounds like the chef told him, in effect, "tough shit" when he complained. If that's the case, wouldn't you be pissed?

[tommy]

sounds like he's easily angered to me.

[jaybee]

sounds like he's easily angered to me.

You may be right. I don't know him all that well. But there's few things better than being justifiably pissed off. (except getting really good revenge)

[Fat Guy]

The suspense is killing me; will somebody please tell me about the virtual arena where drrevenue is known to the likes of Plotnicki, Cabrales, Brown, and Jaybee as a brilliant and erudite gourmet? Is it one of the wine boards? Clearly he's got some fans, but all the rest of us know about him is what he has posted here. And I think I speak for most of those who are new to drrevenue that we are thus far seriously underwhelmed. I mean, the guy can't even make a convincing case for himself when he's in complete control of the information flow; I'd love to see how badly he'd do if we could actually hear the other side. In any event, I think those who think he's a friend should pitch in and buy Dr. Revenue a few sessions with Dr. Anger Management, because when he gave this thread the title "Dealing with problems at restaurants" he really meant it.

[Jaymes]

The suspense is killing me; will somebody please tell me about the virtual arena where drrevenue is known to the likes of Plotnicki, Cabrales, Brown, and Jaybee as a brilliant and erudite gourmet? Is it one of the wine boards? Clearly he's got some fans, but all the rest of us know about him is what he has posted here. And I think I speak for most of those who are new to drrevenue that we are thus far seriously underwhelmed. I mean, the guy can't even make a convincing case for himself when he's in complete control of the information flow; I'd love to see how badly he'd do if we could actually hear the other side. In any event, I think those who think he's a friend should pitch in and buy Dr. Revenue a few sessions with Dr. Anger Management, because when he gave this thread the title "Dealing with problems at restaurants" he really meant it.

He seems to be some sort of motivational speaker/management consultant/guru kind of guy.

I can't find any cooking/eating/food/restaurant posts he's made. He seems to have just showed up here in order to trash his former friend with whom he is now royally pissed.

Here you go:Drrevenue.com