Dealing with problems at restaurants

[drrevenue]

good post...this is what I had in mind when I wrote about our situation...I'll be more specific. The restaurant is Rockenwagner on Main Street in Santa Monica. Hans Rockenwagner is, in my opinion, one of the more talented, truly professional chefs in LA.

LA is a town conspicuously lacking in fine dining establishments. There are a lot of middle of the road restaurants, but very few if any that approach New York or San Francisco quality.

I dine in many good restaurants in the US and Europe. We are about to leave for 25 days of fine dining in France.

I do not "need" any restaurant. I don't feel that I'm giving up anything when I cross a restaurant off the list. This happens rarely.

When I say we dine in many good restaurants I'm talking about at least 150 significant restaurant meals in the best restaurants in the US and France annually for many years.

I travel over 150,000 miles in my work and vacation in France for at least a month each year. Fine dining and drinking fine wines are our hobbies. We entertain and are entertained by many of the top chefs.

I have generally had positive responses from chef/owners when I provided "feedback".

I once wrote a scathing letter to John Sedlar, then the owner of Bikini, at that time one of the very best restaurants in LA. Bikini in the beginning was worthy of national notice and could rival most restaurants in NY or SF.

We had an absolutely awful meal at Bikini. In this case the service was lousy also. I had brought a party of 6 for a special occasion. John was out of town.

Not only did Sedlar respond appropriately to my letter with a call and an invitation to return ("I'll make it up to you" was the attitude. ) I later found out that he personally read the letter to his entire staff and posted it on the refrigerator.

What a difference! The bottom line is that we, as customers, have to vote with our feet.

I'd hate to not go to Pierre Gagnaire or L'Ambrosie in Paris or not return to Georges Blanc or Troigros, but if the owner's attitude were like that of Hans Rockenwagner, I would vote with my feet.

There is no other way, in my opinion, to express dissatisfaction when it is clear that the owner doesn't care what you, the paying customer thinks.

Thanks for your comments. Your La Palapa comment is right on. We all have limits.

[drrevenue]

Suzanne...

We walked out on Saturday night, by Wednesday I was shocked not to have heard from Hans Rockenwagner so I sent an eMail saying that "I am surpised that I have not heard from you."

He replied with this short sentence:

"...I am disappointed in your reaction on Saturday night"

Below is my response.

Dear Hans,

I am shocked and disgusted with your attitude toward long term very good customers and supporters of your restaurants.

You should be disappointed, but not with Liz and me. The fact that you left Rockenwagner in the hands of untrained kitchen help is disgusting.

The fact that your staff even mentioned that you should probably call us and tell us to "skip it" that night is indicative of the fact that Jen and David were concerned about quality.

The first dish, the spring rolls was fine, good, and normal.

The second dish, some sort of crab floating in a green soup like stuff with cucumbers was sort of neutral--not bad but lacking flavor and style. You just hired a new chef from Tru, but then took him with you to cater an event, You then left an untrained kitchen crew to try and duplicate the dish. I ate at Tru a month ago and know what it is and how it works--quality all the way!

The quail salad was absolutely disgusting. The dish would never have gotten out of the kitchen in your restaurant with a "chef" in the kitchen. There was absolutely no flavor and it chewed like shoe leather.

I don't know what you expect experienced, frequent diners to do except, ask for the check and state that the food was "very disappointing!" We acknowledged the quality service with an appropriate tip for Jen and David and left substantial quantities of both our champagne and a very nice Alsatian Riesling.

Clearly you do not value either our business, our referrals, or our friendship.

I am totally shocked that you as a "professional" and "business owner" would go out of your way to alienate me. By expressing attitude in your "one liner below", rather than being conciliatory and friendly, you are simply closing the door.

We know your food, your restaurant and thought we knew your sense of quality--obviously we were wrong!

It is too bad, we have enjoyed the friendship and relationship with you and Patti.

Good luck attracting quality customers with this type of attitude toward "a problem".

[Suzanne F]

Thanks for supplying that piece of the correspondence. But ...

Wow! If I received a letter like that, I'd be absolutely breathless from your barrage of punches to my solar plexus. And quite at a loss for how to make a reasoned and reasonable response, since it would seem to me nothing I said would be heard by you, you were that angry. I would certainly believe that the preparation of your food was not up to your standards and expectations. But your having attacked me and my staff so violently would make it difficult for me to even WANT to respond.

I don't know what business you are in, but if you received such a letter from a customer/client, how would you respond? Would you respond?

And to the other chefs and owners here, what would YOU do? Just curious.

edited to fix an egregious grammatical error.

[glenn]

Yeah, but the "violent" response on DRREVENUE'S part was only after the mostly non response on Hans' part. However, I think it's kind of ridiculous for us to speculate or to judge how either party should have acted w/o actually knowing the complete background of the situation. I think we all agree that Hans should have apologized at the onset. Things get muddled in translation and no offense, but I don't think anyone can really contribute any useful content without knowing all the parties and w/o being there.

This is not all that different than a big argument I had with the owner of Blue Sky in Montclair which started after I voiced my displeasure with my experience at their establishment on Rosie's old food board. I received a response privately from the owner via email, but instead of apologizing at the onset, the owner was defensive. Of course I thought I was 1000% right (and still do and still won't eat there), but I would never expect someone who wasn't there to completely understand the situation.

[spqr]

Now that more facts about the case have surfaced, I believe I share DRREVENUE's upset at the way he was treated by Rockenwagner.

I am intrigued by the personalized hurt being expressed. Why is it that DRREVENUE appears to be personally hurt while Rockenwagner appears to be so indifferent?

While I could not even imagine dropping the amount of money DRREVENUE does on restaurants, I believe that people who do deserve better. People who not only drop tons of money but also actively promote their favorite restaurants deserve a whole lot more consideration from the patron/chef. If the facts are as they have been represented here are correct, then Rockenwagner's repsonse is mindblowingly arrogant and he deserves whatever negative hit his business takes from this kind of publicity.

If I were DRREVENUE, I would save my money for dining in Europe [Note to DRREVENUE: do you need anyone to carry your bags?] and forget about Rockenwagner. Sometimes you just have to let go and move on.

[drrevenue]

It is important to remember the sequence of events:

1. Manager and server talk to Hans and urge him to call us and tell us to make it another night.

2. No call - we arrive

3. Realize both chefs are not in the kitchen - order one appetizer - good

4. Order another appetizer - fair

5. Decide to give the restaurant a chance - order third appetizer - horrible. Decide to call it a day. Ask for check, insist on paying - they won't let us saying that they wished Hans had called telling us not to come. Manager says he will talk to Hans and knows Hans will get back to us.

6. Waiting for some type of response from Hans. Nothing.

(Remember this is not a casual relationship. Patti, Hans' wife has joined us for dinner at the restaurant numerous times. I have also helped he and his wife with their business planning.)

7. e-mail Hans saying only "I am surprised I have not heard from you."

8. Finally on Wednesday, Hans sends the following e-mail

"...I am disappointed in your reaction on Saturday night"

9. Only then did I send my angry response. My expectation was that given we were regulars and more than casual customers Hans would have replied "sorry we did not do a good job, let's talk" or "sorry you were disappointed, I'm disappointed that we disappointed you, come again, you know we can do better".

[Steve Plotnicki]

Has anyone sent the restaurant a copy of this thread? Does Rockenwagner have a website and an email address?

[southern girl]

I am completely in drrevenue's camp...no if, ands or buts. I would not set foot in Rockenwagner until I received what I considered a sincere personal apology from Hans. Friendships aside (at this point) Hans and Patti have used drrevenue, accepting his money, his generosity in promoting the restaurant to others and his willingness to include Patti in their dinners. I would be willing to bet the comps in appreciation of such loyal customers on Patti and Hans' part have been few and far between...and I am not referring to the occasional extra course...I mean a full meal comp in real appreciation of their generous patronage. There are other fine dining establishments who would love to have this kind of customer. I too would be very hurt by Hans' curt response on the "friendship" level. I happen to know, on a personal level, that drrevenue is a very generous person (as is his wife) and that this treatment from Patti and Hans is out of bounds.

[stefanyb]

"...I am disappointed in your reaction on Saturday night"

You realize that if he had written, "I am disappointed about your reaction on Saturday night" it could have been interpreted as- he was hoping all would be well while he was away and was disappointed to find out all was not well.

Its not impossible that that was what he meant to convey.

[Stone]

I wonder how Bourdain would have replied had he received DrRevenue's email.

Personally, I think the restaurant owner's decision not to respond to your email was probaly an appropriate exercise of discretion (which in this instance was likely the better part of valor), and I assume his tongue still smarts from his having bitten it.

[Fat Guy]

Remember this is not a casual relationship. Patti, Hans' wife has joined us for dinner at the restaurant numerous times. I have also helped he and his wife with their business planning.

The plot thickens.

This is no simple case of a restaurant mistreating a customer. The relationship is complex and personal, a hybrid of a friendship and a business relationship. Before I knew this latest set of facts I thought you should give the restaurant a second chance. Now I'm not sure the restaurant is ever going to give you a second chance!

[drrevenue]

You are an idiot!

I don't know what you do for a living and I really don't care.

You just don't get it!

I'm a customer. That is a person who spends money for food, service, etc. in a restaurant.

I don't know whether you have ever owned or operated a restaurant. My guess is that you have not.

Customers are like little gold nuggets. Customers who know food, appreciate food and wine and respond to good service are few and far between.

When you have one who helps you-when you have one who spends money with you--when you have one who dines with you 10-20+ times a year, you have a "big gold mine"...you don't do anything to cut off that gold mine.

You seem to think that good customers grow on trees and come out every season.

There is no issue here. We dined at a very good restaurant tonight. I mentioned the situation at Rockenwagner to the manager of this restaurant who used to work at several good restaurants--she could not believe the reaction from Hans.

You seem to think that I need that restaurant. Frankly, I don't "need" any restaurant. I can afford to go any where any time--that means that I'm one of those customers that any every restauranteur wants...

You are clearly totally mis-informed about what makes a business [which is what a restaurant is, in case you've forgotten or never knew!] work.

So again I repeat--there is no issue here --I'm the customer. I handled the situation as a gentleman--remember I tipped the servers, left great wine for them and said, "don't worry about it".

The problem started when the stupid owner became defensive and obnoxious...now I have to respond to stupid, obnoxious people who don't get it...this site is sort of fun because you see what stupid idiots out there are willing to do to defend people like Hans Rockenwagner who could have ended this whole thing by simply calling me--remember he has my number and has asked my help with his business more than once--so as I said, you are an idiot!

[mynamejoe]

You are an idiot!

No, say what's really on your mind.

I don't generally make it a policy to tell people that I do not know that they are idiots, but if you cannot see that this is not a purely business relationship, well, draw your own conclusions as to what I think.

If it weren't for this "more than just another customer" relationship, I would have to agree that the owner's reaction was out of line. Did you ever stop to think that perhaps it was because of this more personal relationship that he did not treat you as he would have any other customer? First you say that you are friends, then you claim to be offended because you were not treated as any other customer would have been. Does the phrase "you can't have your cake and eat it, too" mean anything to you? Or, are you just peeved to have found something that all your money could not buy?

[Basildog]

Hmmm...calling people idiots does not help your cause.

Fat Guy is many things, but not an idiot imho.

[Andy Lynes]

In my opinion, this sort of very specific, very personal situation is not appropriate subject matter for a thread on these discussion boards. I was uncomfortable with the initial post, and the thread has degenerated in pretty much the way I expected it to.

Although posted under the guise of a general "topic", I suspect this is simply a bit of calculated mud slinging from a someone in desperate need of a thesaurus (for "disgusting" you might also use nauseating, sickening, revolting, nasty. Was that quail salad really "sickening"? Was it really "revolting" that a chef should leave his kitchen when you happened to have booked a table in restaurant?) and a dictionary (idiot=A foolish or stupid person. A person of profound mental retardation having a mental age below three years and generally being unable to learn connected speech or guard against common dangers. The term belongs to a classification system no longer in use and is now considered offensive. So, just to clarify, it doesn't mean "anyone who disagrees with me").

I dislike seeing eGullet.com misused in this way. If you wish to persue this matter, I strongly urge you to do so via personal correspondance with the parties involved and take us out of the loop. If you continue to post on this matter, I think the least you can do is alert chef Röckenwagner to the sort of things you are saying about him and his operation on this board and allow him the opportunity to defend himself in light of your accusations. I would be more than happy to e mail him via his address on his website www.rockenwagner.com if you feel uncomfortable about doing so yourself.

[Kerouac1964]

Perhaps another perspective. If you considered him a friend, as I assume he does you -- perhaps you both owe the time invested in your acquaintance to at least discuss this in person with one another.

Life is way too short to keep bad feelings or to lose a true friend to such a problem.

If he sent you just the one sentence, that may also indicate he may have been preoccupied with other business concerns...heck, perhaps he was fuming at just having balled out the staff.

The brevity of his message may also indcate that he expected to discuss this with you in person when you return to his establishment. He may have felt that a true apology should be done in person with a handshake and an opportunity for him to treat you with a special meal or wine.

I think he worded his message poorly, perhaps from distraction....haste at answering many other emails? Who knows?

When you fired back that second email, I'm sure was hoping you would call or come in person to discuss it further. He surely would be afraid to call you or approach you at this point, as you are displaying a huge amount of frustration at this situation.

In a sense the tone in your second email would surely have made him pause before emailing you again.

I just realized your original email was addressed to "Suzane". How do you know he even personally read your first email?? He was responding by what Suzane told him you wrote. Perhaps she did not convey your email to him verbally in a clear manner. Hence his ambivalent, short reply.

So, that brings a person into the argument loop, so to speak. Correct?

Seems to me you should speak directly to him, in person to get everything straightend out to your satisfaction and I'm sure his as well.

Best of luck,

Mike

Sioux City, IA

[John Whiting]

This thread makes me thankful that I have never been able to afford such a horrendous budget for dining out that a screw-up would be as serious as if my Rolls were to break down in the middle of Death Valley.

[Tonyfinch]

I completely agree with joe. You are NOT just a "customer". You have repeatedly described yourself as a "friend". The two are not one and the same thing and it would appear that you are having problems separating the two.

If you were just a customer then I would expect that you would have found the waiving of the bill sufficient. At least I would have. But that's not enough for you. You want a personal response from your "friend". When you get one which assumes friendship (I was disappointed in you too) you go ballistic and start claiming customer status and appear quite happy to blow your friendship in order to be treated with the deference that you feel customers deserve.

Friendship is not characterised by deference.If you want to be treated as a customer then stop hoping to bre treated as a friend.

[Kerouac1964]

Oops...LOL I just realized Suzane is an EGULLETier....hehe....

I may have inadvertantly proved my point to some extent. Emails are such flimsy things and at times too barren to flush out context and meaning of the original sender.

Mike

[robert brown]

This is e-Gullet at its finest. Whether or not the contributors all agree, I think it is good to have a public forum in which people bring to the attention of the brethren what they think is outrageous, dishonest, or other wise egregious behavior. I don’t think Rockenwagner (whenever I see his name, all I can think of is “Ride of the Valkyries” played on a synthesizer) has a leg to stand on. He should have treated his business of the evening as if it were a private party and closed the restaurant. That he took the only person with him who knows how to prepare the restaurant dishes to a catered event means to me either he is understaffed or doesn’t know the lack of ability of the people he left to cook in the restaurant. Clearly, there were other employees who did and who respected Dr. Revenue and Liz’s devoted patronage by wanting to waive them off that evening.

I sometimes look for hidden motives in these kinds of situations. Perhaps Rockenwagner has a serious need for money and could not afford to discourage even devoted two clients from spending money at his restaurant.. Maybe Rockenwagner has never assimilated himself to the way most Americans covet their best customers. Perhaps Rockenwagner is a misanthrope at heart and doesn’t really like any of his customers. It makes one wonder if this is not the first time he has tried to enrich himself in this way and that he has “shortchanged” other customers on other evenings and will continue to do so. That he mishandled the situation with Dr. Revenue without remorse and missing several opportunities to redress it makes me wonder what the man has on his mind.

[Andy Lynes]

That he took the only person with him who knows how to prepare the restaurant dishes to a catered event means to me either he is understaffed or doesn’t know the lack of ability of the people he left to cook in the restaurant.

I take it that you only have drrevenue's opinion that this is the case?. If so, it's a very big assumption to make, and infers that no one below the position of head chef is qualified to run the kitchen in the owners absense. I would be very suprised if that were true, but I have no way of knowing for sure. And neither, I would guess, do you.

I have to disagree with you Robert, this is eGullet at it's worst. We are being used as a dumping ground for emotions that would be much better channelled into a productive face to face meeting between the parties involved. A business and reputation is being dragged through the mud here and none of us really know the full story as to why it is happening.

[robert brown]

Andy, I'm glad you brought up the matter of using e-gullet to air dirty linen, so to speak. I am not sure, however, that "dirty linen" is the right term. I think it is an important matter to put up for discussion on the board that handles site topics. I was all set to do it just before I saw your post.

[glenn]

I nominate this discussion as among the most idiotic on egullet.

Top 5...

idiot princess - guided by voices

idiot bastard son - frank zappa

idiot savant - queers featuring s. plotzkie on castanet

idiots rule - jane's addiction

idiots and irritants - franklin bruno

idiot's delight [vin scelsa's show -- is it still around??]

[Andy Lynes]

The "dirty linen" scenario thankfully doesn't arise very often on eGullet, and it's therefore quite easy to spot. It certainly has been in this case.

What we don't want I think is for members to become paranoid about every post about a restaurant: "why does this person seem to love/hate this place so much. Whats the real story". But we do need to be alert to instances where there may be more than meets the eye to a post, and not always take things at face value.

[Jinmyo]

I have nothing to add except for my complete agreement with Andy.