Controversy over the invention of the hamburger

[Fat Guy]

The New York Times today has a report on a controversy over the invention of the hamburger. Athens, Texas and New Haven, Connecticut both claim to be the point of origin. Louis' Lunch, in New Haven, is still open for business and its proprietors are disputing a proposal to have Athens, Texas, declared the home of the hamburger.

What's interesting to me is that both claims -- which date to around 1900 -- are so recent. I would have figured somebody would have come up with the hamburger concept much earlier. And why is it named for Hamburg, Germany, if it was invented in Texas or Connecticut? The Frankfurter, too, seems to have a German name though it seems to have been invented here. What's up with that?

[rooftop1000]

From what I know the Hamburg steak and sausages (Franks) weren't served on bread until these "invention" dates.

In Germany many sausages are still served in a waxed paper or on a plate rather than a roll.

tracey

[cinghiale]

In Hamburg (and elsewhere in Germany), ground meat patties, called Frikadellen or Bouletten, are usually served not on a roll, but accompanied by one. Fries, or Pommes, are a standard side and not uncommonly eaten with mayo or various tomato-based condiments. Cart vendors and sidewalk-fronting stores with display cases may have Frikadellen on a roll for ease of eating on-the-go. Sausage likewise is usually served on a long paper plate with a roll on the side and a little cardboard holder to protect your fingers. Sometimes you'll find the (long) sausage served on a (short) roll, again for protection against grease and burnt fingers.

[ludja]

... The Frankfurter, too, seems to have a German name though it seems to have been invented here. What's up with that?

←

From what I know the Hamburg steak and sausages (Franks) weren't served on bread until these "invention" dates.

In Germany many sausages are still served in a waxed paper or on a plate rather than a roll.

tracey

←

Wieners or Frankfurters orginate from Germany/Austria via the numerous German immigrants to the US in the early to mid 1800's, hence the names.

In Austria, a type of hamburger is the "Fleischlaibchen" although as cinghale points out in the German example, it also is not served on a roll.

As pointed out by rooftop1000 and cinghale, I thought the American 'invention' part of these dishes was serving them on a roll and in addition, the developemnt of all the different condiments and styles that evolved afterwards.

As mentioned by rooftop1000 and cinghale, these dishes in Germany and Austria, outside of fastfood restaurants, are served with a roll or 'Semmel' on the side.

CT vs Texas? I'll have to root for little CT, my homestate.

[Kent D]

Well, I can't vouch for the legitimacy of this claim, but according to this hamburger history site, Oscar Bilby of Tulsa, Oklahoma created and served the first bun-attached hamburger on July 4th, 1891, well before either CT or TX, but didn't actually open a burger stand until 1933.

And I will also trumpet the fact that the first burger chain, White Castle, was started right here in Wichita, KS in 1921, although no White Castles remain here.

To me, it's not who was first, but who makes them best. It's like determining who made the first meatloaf -- maybe some old Greek dude did, but I doubt that it tasted as good as Grandma's...

[Adam Balic]

Hamburger steaks have been around for quite a while, early 19th century OED described it as a type of salted beef ground up and made into a patty, Barry Popik has found a recipe in an 1885 edition of Caterer and Household Magazine.

In terms of American history, I guess the important bit is when it was put into a bun (does anybody really consider a hambuger sandwich a "burger"?). I'm sure that there is no single point source as the idea has most likely occured to many people, but when who made it popular is proberly more important then when the first mention of hamburger sandwich etc.

[Pan]

Good point, Adam. To me, the hamburger is the patty itself. I call the whole setup a "hamburger on a bun." And I didn't make up that nomenclature; I presumably got it from my parents and other adults I grew up with. Hotdog on a bun, hamburger on a bun. Yes, it IS possible to have them on a plate with no bun, and people DID do that at cookouts I attended as a kid in the 1970s. Does that make them no longer hamburgers or hotdogs, in the opinions of some of you?

[Fat Guy]

If you go to a restaurant and order a hamburger, or if somebody says to you "come over for burgers tonight," the overwhelming probability is that you'll be served a ground-beef patty on a soft bun. So, I do think that's the common meaning of the term hamburger. In other words, you're more likely to need to say you want a "hamburger no bun" than you are to need to say you want a "hamburger on a bun" because everybody understands that the default is a patty with a bun. I'd say, most accurately, the patty is a "hamburger patty" and the bun is a "hamburger bun," whereas the sandwich is a "hamburger." Then again the term "hamburger" is also commonly used to refer just to the ground beef itself, as in "Combine 2 lbs. hamburger with 2 cans of red kindey beans . . ."

[LindsayAnn]

If you go to a restaurant and order a hamburger, or if somebody says to you "come over for burgers tonight," the overwhelming probability is that you'll be served a ground-beef patty on a soft bun. So, I do think that's the common meaning of the term hamburger. In other words, you're more likely to need to say you want a "hamburger no bun" than you are to need to say you want a "hamburger on a bun" because everybody understands that the default is a patty with a bun. I'd say, most accurately, the patty is a "hamburger patty" and the bun is a "hamburger bun," whereas the sandwich is a "hamburger." Then again the term "hamburger" is also commonly used to refer just to the ground beef itself, as in "Combine 2 lbs. hamburger with 2 cans of red kindey beans . . ."

←

So right you are - regarding the last portion especially - ground beef itself is often refered to as hamburger!

And...if I ever wanted a hamburger and not the bun (this would be a rare occurance...I love the whole deal - with bun!), I would def. say "hamburger no bun, please".

Also noted: I often times refer to a hamburger as a burger...I suppose that's slang for hamburger....wow I am lazy....those extra three letters "ham"...do they really take that much more effort to say than the burger? Haha

[JohnL]

The New York Times today has a report on a controversy over the invention of the hamburger. Athens, Texas and New Haven, Connecticut both claim to be the point of origin. Louis' Lunch, in New Haven, is still open for business and its proprietors are disputing a proposal to have Athens, Texas, declared the home of the hamburger.

What's interesting to me is that both claims -- which date to around 1900 -- are so recent. I would have figured somebody would have come up with the hamburger concept much earlier. And why is it named for Hamburg, Germany, if it was invented in Texas or Connecticut? The Frankfurter, too, seems to have a German name though it seems to have been invented here. What's up with that?

←

Alton brown, in his recent "travel around America on a motorcycle" series made reference to the source of hamburger as rooted in the "Hamburg Steak."

I wonder if this is also the source of the "Salisbury Steak" which as I experienced it is a large oblong or patty shaped ground beef topped with a brown gravy with onions or mushrooms?

Also known as a chopped steak.

Then there is meatloaf!

also--- I wonder if the "inventor" of the hamburger (the meat on a bun) predates the Earl of Sandwich and his invention?! If so, does the hamburger inventor get some credit for the sandwich invention or, if not, does the earl of Sandwich deserve some credit for the hamburger!!??

I am totally confused!

(but hungry)

Edited January 22, 2007 by JohnL (log)

[Holly Moore]

If you go to a restaurant and order a hamburger, or if somebody says to you "come over for burgers tonight," the overwhelming probability is that you'll be served a ground-beef patty on a soft bun.

....

←

Them were the days. In current times, said hamburger can arrive on all manner of bakery product, most of which are more stylish and less functional (as in staying together) than the perfect hamburger compliment, the "soft bun."

I'm rooting for Louis Lunch in New Haven - both for the oldest and one of the best.

Edited January 22, 2007 by Holly Moore (log)

[ghostrider]

In terms of American history, I guess the important bit is when it was put into a bun (does anybody really consider a hambuger sandwich a "burger"?). I'm sure that there is no single point source as the idea has most likely occured to many people, but when who made it popular is proberly more important then when the first mention of hamburger sandwich etc.

←

Agree with posts above. I think "hamburger sandwich" would be considered redundant in the US.

Wondering if that's a more common phrase in the UK? Been too long since I've been there for me to remember.

Edited January 24, 2007 by ghostrider (log)

[themike]

All this hamburger talk makes me hungry...

The meaning of the word hamburger is vague. It refers to the meat and the combination of the meat and bun. But the difference is if you want a hamburger, or some hambuger.

It was probably called a "Hamburger on a Bun", until no body had every heard of a hamburger without a bun. So it just became "hamburger", then "burger", and probably in the future just "burg".

---

DrinkingBeer.net - Always a good idea

[MarketStEl]

All this hamburger talk makes me hungry...

The meaning of the word hamburger is vague. It refers to the meat and the combination of the meat and bun. But the difference is if you want a hamburger, or some hambuger.

It was probably called a "Hamburger on a Bun", until no body had every heard of a hamburger without a bun. So it just became "hamburger", then "burger", and probably in the future just "burg". 

←

As long as "burg" is used as a slang term for "city" or "town," I doubt that that last reduction of syllables will take place.

The interesting bit of linguistic trivia here is that both of these terms--"burg" and "burger"--are traceable to the same German roots. "Hamburger" has been explained upthread; "burg" is the German word for "city"; thus "Königsberg" is "the king's city", "St. Petersburg" is "the city of St. Peter" and "Hamburg" is "the city of ham." Were my hometown settled by Germans, it would no doubt have been called Kansaburg.

I thought that the Salisbury steak was also named for a British nobleman, like the sandwich. The Salisbury steak could also be considered a "hamburger, no bun."

[ghostrider]

thus "Königsberg" is "the king's city",

←

King's mountain, I believe.

Leading to the possbility of a BergBurger for those with large appetites.

[Mayhaw Man]

Mr Cutlets weighs in on the giant Hamburger Controversy

I'll sum it up for you...

Texans are liars.

The guys in New Haven don't even make hamburgers

People in Oklahoma seem nice enough, but they claim stuff though they have no evidence. Perhaps they are related to the Texans, somehow.

Some guy in Kansas gets the credit for 100 years of clogged arteries and skyrocketing Bromo sales.

Move along, nothing to see here.

[cinghiale]

The interesting bit of linguistic trivia here is that both of these terms--"burg" and "burger"--are traceable to the same German roots.  "Hamburger" has been explained upthread; "burg" is the German word for "city"

Actually, Burg means castle, or fortress, though a citizen is a Bürger. City is Stadt. The derivation of the Ham- root is somewhat unclear.

"Königsberg"

Somewhat less OT (and less pedantic): A related, delicious German meat dish, Königsberger Klopse.

[tristar]

The New York Times today has a report on a controversy over the invention of the hamburger. Athens, Texas and New Haven, Connecticut both claim to be the point of origin. Louis' Lunch, in New Haven, is still open for business and its proprietors are disputing a proposal to have Athens, Texas, declared the home of the hamburger.

What's interesting to me is that both claims -- which date to around 1900 -- are so recent. I would have figured somebody would have come up with the hamburger concept much earlier. And why is it named for Hamburg, Germany, if it was invented in Texas or Connecticut? The Frankfurter, too, seems to have a German name though it seems to have been invented here. What's up with that?

←

Making the assumption that Hamburger is refering to the forcemeat patty and not the Hamburger Bun, or even the placement of the two items together.

Marcus Gavius Apicius gives a recipe for Isicia Omentata (which could be considered a Hamburger Steak) in his De Re Coquinaria ("The Art of Cooking"), Apicus who was described by Pliny as 'the most gluttonous gorger of all spendthrifts' lived early in the First Century AD and his collection of recipes is the oldest to survive from antiquity.

Considering that Athens, Texas and New Haven, Connecticut didn't even exist in the First Century AD, what on earth is this argument all about? Unless of course the placement of a groundmeat patty into a specifically shaped bread roll is of such culinary importance, that it, in itself, warrants such a brohaha? Surely America has much more important culinary firsts to be proud off? Hasn't it?