Dining Talk 2002

[Jason Perlow]

Theres also this really old Bar/hoffbrau carved sandwich place that makes huge fresh roastbeef, turkey and ham sandwiches on big chewy rolls. Its called Tommy's Joint and its a real dive. On Geary and Van Ness.

[Ron Johnson]

R & G Lounge Chinatown. Damn good.

[CathyL]

I like my crabs in a heap, on top of lots of newspapers and with bibs and crab picks provided.  Best like they do it down South (although they also do it in Chinatown and in the Philippines and elsewhere.)

Yeah, it figures the crabs would do it that way in SF.

I had lunch at Tadich's last month. Great local color, lousy food. The French fries were okay.

[Stone]

I had lunch at Tadich's last month.  Great local color, lousy food.  The French fries were okay.

That's the scuttlebut I've heard also.

[Steve Klc]

Shaw--you have to cut this crap out right now. How do you expect our friend and colleague Bill to make a name for himself if you cover all the best angles of the "East Coast guy moves West" for him?

Bill, by the way, we're all so happy for you--you deserve this so much. When you say you'll be reviewing "ethnic" will there be a "cheap eats" element to your beat as well? (I'm thinking Village Voice/NY press/ out there maybe SF Weekly?) And if that isn't enough, are you taking over a pre-existing position or did they create a new one?

[Jason Perlow]

The problem here is coming up with quintissential SF experiences and coming up with good food. Thats not an easy thing to do. While there are probably 50 really good restaurants in SF, none of them capture the SF experience though.

Chinatown -- thats probably a safe bet for quintissential and finding a good bite, but as to where?

[Mebutter]

Shaw--you have to cut this crap out right now.  How do you expect our friend and colleague Bill to make a name for himself if you cover all the best angles of the "East Coast guy moves West" for him?

Bill, by the way, we're all so happy for you--you deserve this so much.  And are you really allowed to say you'll be reviewing "ethnic?"  Will there be a "Cheap Eats" element to your beat as well?  And if that isn't enough, are you taking over a pre-existing position or did they create a new one?

Thanks for your best wishes, Steve KLC, I appreciate it very much.

As to your questions:

Yes, it's a pre-existing position. I'm the new Robin Davis (a byline Chronicle readers will surely recognize). I think its okay to say "ethic" - but there are other adjectives you could use as well: "cheap eats" "neighborhood" "whatever."

The Chronicle has a team of regional reviewers covering the Bay Area. I am one of them. Our leader/captain/head reviewer remains Michael Bauer.

I'll miss the Courant, and New England, very much. But the Chronicle's food team is a very talented, friendly bunch and we're talking San Francisco. I couldn't resist...even with the high rents.

Bill Daley

[VivreManger]

One well-known gourmand recommended to me the sand dabs at Tadich's as a classic. I mentioned this to my SF foodie friends who said they would never trust my judgment again, if I ate there. However as a statement of quintessential SF dining experience it may be worth a brief visit, particularly if you can get a curtained booth and just order a simple fried fish and frites. Another SF classic is I think called Ernies, if it is still in busines. Jimmie Stewart had a scene there in Vertigo. It represents a different tradition in SF dining: The long counter restaurant with iron-skillet cooked food. For simple seafood, I recommend SWAN OYSTER DEPOT 1517 Polk St. (nearer California than Sacramento), (415) 673-1101. Open 8 a.m.-5:30 p.m. Monday-Saturday. No reservations or credit cards accepted. Near Bus 1, 19, 42, 47, 49, 76/cable car. The oysters and chowda are great. The fish is fresh. The SF clientele authentic.

By the way, if you are doing SF ethnic food, I might want your help in tracking down an Iraqi restaurant that my nephews used to patronize (their mother was born in Baghdad): Ya Ya Cuisine, 663 Clay Street, Phone: 415 434-3567. I tried to find it a year ago, but it seems to have closed. Another ethnic theme are the Japanese breakfast restaurants. I don't remember ever seeing an article on them, but I have not been surfing the Chronicle recently.

[hollywood]

[Stone]

Hollywood -- I think that shot's from Bullit, not Vertigo. Enricos should be avoided, unless you enjoy crowds of inane youth proudly drinking Red Bull and Vodka.

I'm looking forward to another East Coaster's take on SF's chinese food.

[hollywood]

Hollywood -- I think that shot's from Bullit, not Vertigo.  Enricos should be avoided, unless you enjoy crowds of inane youth proudly drinking Red Bull and Vodka.

I'm looking forward to another East Coaster's take on SF's chinese food.

It's surely from Bullitt. Not trying to confuse things, just remembered McQueen going to a restaurant in the flick.

[LESider]

For simple seafood, I recommend SWAN OYSTER DEPOT 1517 Polk St. (nearer California than Sacramento), (415) 673-1101. Open 8 a.m.-5:30 p.m. Monday-Saturday. No reservations or credit cards accepted.  Near Bus 1, 19, 42, 47, 49, 76/cable car.  The oysters and chowda are great.  The fish is fresh.  The SF clientele authentic.  

Ahh Baghdad by the Bay...where the fog comes in like a big wooly blanket around 6pm every night.

Swan's Yes. Ernies Long Gone.

You can get a decent boiled dungeness crab in front of Alioto's. then grab a In/Out burger down the street. Then high tail it out of there...and head up Columbus to North Beach for some good coffee. something difficult to find in the TriState Area. While in North Beach stop by Liguria's Bakery on the corner above St Peter and Paul's chruch. some of the best Foccacia on the West Coast. celebrate baby! cause your in a town where good bread isn't a soft roll.

Don't call it Frisco Baby- Herb Cain, RIP

[hollywood]

Hollywood -- I think that shot's from Bullit, not Vertigo.  Enricos should be avoided, unless you enjoy crowds of inane youth proudly drinking Red Bull and Vodka.

I'm looking forward to another East Coaster's take on SF's chinese food.

Ernie's (r.i.p.) from Vertigo.

[Bux]

Leaving Hartford for S.F.? I don't know how you're going to adjust to the weather, let alone the food. Well good luck and congratulations. It's nice to know you won't be any further away from eGullet by modem. It's been about four years since we've been in California and I can't offer much useful advice. We ate well and less expensively than in NY, although some upscale creative food was not to our taste. I do recall having better dim sum than we were used to in NY. It was at Ton Kiang out on, I believe, Geary and far from Chinatown in a neighborhood that was full of Russian shops.

[Toby]

Salt and pepper squid at Yuet Lee on Stockton.

Burritos at the taqueria on Mission between 25th & 26th Street (the one closer to 25th).

[Margaret Pilgrim]

Thanks, LESider for including Liguria Bakery. This one shop is quintessentially SF to me.

I'd also suggest the Green/Embarcadero farmer's market for your first Saturday breakfast. Besides fabulous bread and cheese direct, several restaurants set up kitchens and offer a range of brunch items (sometimes grilled salmon, various omelets, crepes, mexican, etc.)

Don't let all these easterners "whistling in the dark" scare you. You're going to love it here!

PS I think that SobaAddict's Divisidero restaurant is called "Phuket". I jest not.

[Fat Guy]

1e. "You can't get good coffee in New York."

1f. "Fisherman's Wharf is for tourists."

[Jason Perlow]

Thanks, LESider for including Liguria Bakery.  This one shop is quintessentially SF to me.  

I'd also suggest the Green/Embarcadero farmer's market for your first Saturday breakfast.   Besides fabulous bread and cheese direct, several restaurants set up kitchens and offer a range of brunch items (sometimes grilled salmon, various omelets, crepes, mexican, etc.)

Don't let all these easterners "whistling in the dark" scare you.  You're going to love it here!  

PS I think that SobaAddict's Divisidero restaurant is called "Phuket".  I jest not.

When I get rich, I'm going to start a Vietnamese Seafood Restaurant called

Phuket All Crab House.

[Beachfan]

Not only is Swan's Oyster Depot great, it is very SF. Try Lulu's too (oven roasted muscles). Not haute cuisine, but some who don't care for Zuni love Lulu's. A good SF scene there.

Go over to the East Bay for the Berkeley Cheese Board (check out the fabulous Pizza by the slice, lunch and dinner hours) and Chez Pannisse Cafe right across the street.

[Stone]

I've heard great things about Swan's. Not much of a fan of LuLu -- too Pottery Barn.

More on ethnic food -- Suppenkuche in Hayes Valley for excellent German food.

By the way, Butter Man, -- perhaps you could host the first San Francisco eGullet dinner when you get out here?

[Beachfan]

too Pottery Barn.

???

[mogsob]

My visits to SF have not resulted in many memorable meals -- far from it, in fact. Apart from my irrational love for the Tadisch Grill (chioppino at the bar for lunch, or in a private booth is one of the great SF experiences), the only meals I have had of note were at PlumpJack Cafe in Cow's Hollow.

And those meals have been memorable indeed. PlumpJack epitomizes the relaxed elegance that comes so easy to Californians, but until quite recently, not to NYers. Perhaps the best way to describe PlumpJack is to relate it to other restaurants that are most similar in cities I am more familiar with: Etats Unis (NY) and Ransome's Dock (London). Like Etats Unis and Ransome's Dock, the cooking is very competent and very tasty, but not haute cuisine or incredible inventive -- just plain tasty. The atmosphere is relaxed, but the service is very attentive and professional. The wine lists (PlumpJack also owns a vineyard and one of the better wine shops in SF) at all three are above average in quality, variety and value. And (for Fat Guy), the desserts are pretty damn fine -- although I once had a very, very wrongheaded souffle there (see my SF post for more details).

Needless to say, I cannot praise PlumpJack any higher than this -- it is my favorite restaurant on the West Coast.

[VivreManger]

When did Ernie's close? I think I went there in the early 80s and that it closed late in that decade.

[LESider]

Ernie's been closed a long time. They re-opened in the nineties as more of a club. closed down thank god. Mbutter, your gonna have a great time eating your way through San Francisco. Honestly, I think its a much better food town than NY. That's a bold statement, and one day when I have time I will lay it all out. Per capita there are more people interested in what they eat than NY. Look at the whole spread of NY City and what do you see? Hot Dogs and Pizza...

[VivreManger]

Obviously, SF is the best foodie town in the country. Sure one might be able to get a better meal in the best NY restaurant over the best SF restaurant, but in terms of culinary culture as a whole, SF is superior. In terms of the price-quality ratio, SF wins again. A new restaurant opening in SF is a major event. On a per capita basis, SF wins hands down. The range and variety of foods is outstanding.

Another point of comparison might be the number of food correspondents at the Chronicle as opposed to the NY Times. I suspect that the Chronicle has more. Here though the comparison might be unfair since SF has become a one-newspaper town and NY still has a few others. But do the Voice, Post, the Daily News, and on the margins Newsday have any culinary clout -- Cheap Eats aside?

I am a native New England who has over the years spent only a few months here and there on the West Coast, so my endorsement is not based on crude nativism.