Curry Powder

[Suvir Saran]

Curry powder, as Anil has pointed out, is a simply a pre-mixed garam masala.

I would never call Curry Powder, Garam Masala.

Sorry Sandra and Anil. It just does not fit in my senses as being even remotely close.

Certainly I can see some people getting confused between curry powder, rassam powder and sambhaar powder, but there is a HUGE difference between any variation of Garam Masala and Curry Powder. They are two very different animals.

Even in the South, from where the rassam and sambhaar powders come, Garam Masala when made, rarely though, is very different.

[Suvir Saran]

I have a jar of curry powder and I use it to make curried chicken salad, (discussed on another thread) which is not by any stretch of the imagination, an Indian dish, but would not be the same without curry powder

What brand of curry powder do you use Sandra? I enjoyed the chicken salad thread greatly.

[Stone]

I think Mae Ploy makes a decent curry paste for Thai food. (I think Mae Ploy is the good brand.) It sure makes the cooking easy -- curry paste, meat and coconut milk.

I tried making my own Thai curry pastes, but didn't think it was worth the effort. If you peek into many Thai restaurants, you'll find that they use pre-made curry paste also.

I think Patak's curry pastes are also pretty good for what they are. I used to make big pots of curried veggies, based on minced onion and tomato and a few big tablespoons of Pataks. Usually made curried cauliflower, okra or potato.

Back to curry paste and cumin -- I had always thought cumin was the dominant flavor in chili powder. I guess it's that versitile.

And I'm confused about the question whether chicken tikka masala is a curry or not. Are we confusing the different uses of the word curry? (I.e, the yellowish powder; the Kari plant; and the term for a dish based on a mixture of spices/flavors?)

[Suvir Saran]

And I'm confused about the question whether chicken tikka masala is a curry or not.  Are we confusing the different uses of the word curry?  (I.e, the yellowish powder; the Kari plant; and the term for a dish based on a mixture of spices/flavors?)

We did go off the topic there. It was in answer to Tommys question about if Indian food employs wet pastes. That was all.

Now back to Curry Powder.

[Sandra Levine]

I have a jar of curry powder and I use it to make curried chicken salad, (discussed on another thread) which is not by any stretch of the imagination, an Indian dish, but would not be the same without curry powder

What brand of curry powder do you use Sandra? I enjoyed the chicken salad thread greatly.

I don't happen to have a jar of curry powder on hand at the moment, but I usually buy Spice Islands, or McCormick. I buy, "mild" because that allows me the greatest latitude. I can always add pepper if I want to.

I agree with you completely that it is nothing like garam masala, but there can be an overlap in the type of spices in both. Anil and I seem to be thinking of the curry powder "origins," not the actual substance. I'm sure, for example, that the spices are not toasted before they are ground.

I don't think of "curry powder" as remotely Indian, but, rather a spice mixture, probably English in origin, made with spices that are also used in India that imparts a certain taste. I thought of one more dish I use it in, a quick soup. Sometimes I'll cook asparagus and a some onion in chicken broth, puree the whole thing, add just a little bit of curry powder and cream and serve it chilled. You don't want to be able to actualy indentify the spice mixture.

It's embarrassing to admit using it, but since there are others on eGullet who admit to eating White Castle burgers and worse, I've decided to come clean. I'm sorry this question turned up on the Indian board, because I think it is a big mistake to think of it as Indian. I can see how a naive person might get a completely mistaken notion of Indian food because of the name. You will note that I make only three dishes with it. You have to be careful, because it can make everything taste the same.

[Suvir Saran]

I agree with you completely that it is nothing like garam masala, but there can be an overlap in the type of spices in both.  Anil and I seem to be thinking of the curry powder "origins," not the actual substance.  I'm sure, for example, that the spices are not toasted before they are ground.

If origins of curry powder are the issue, even more categorically, Curry Powder and Garam Masala have little in common than merely being powders using spices.

Curry Powder had its origings in the desire for the British to make a quick fix that would give them the flavors of Indian food without having to make too much of an effort.

Garam Masala is essential to Indian cooking and yet, can often be left out without being noticed. That is how subtle and delicate it is.

Curry Powder is on the very other extreme end of the scale. It has a very bold personality. If a recipe calls for it, you cannot do without it.

There is little if anything common in the two.

[Sandra Levine]

I hear you and understand, but don't you think that when the British first developed "curry powder" they thought they were making garam masala?

[Suvir Saran]

It's embarrassing to admit using it, but since there are others on eGullet who admit to eating White Castle burgers and worse, I've decided to come clean.  I'm sorry this question turned up on the Indian board, because I think it is a big mistake to think of it as Indian. I can see how a naive person might get a completely mistaken notion of Indian food because of the name. You will note that I make only three dishes with it.  You have to be careful, because it can make everything taste the same.

You should hardly be embarassed. You know so much about so many things.. and you cook just 3 dishes with curry powder? That in itself is amazing. To most of America, the many dishes they find in Indian restaurants are dishes they feel would be made of Curry Powder.

And many chefs including those worshipped by the Francophiles are using curry powder and many with great freedom and little understanding of Curry Powder and its power as you have very rightly explained.

You have little to worry about and much for us to thank you for. You always seem to know so much about the very fine nuances of Indian cooking that if I had not met you, I would think you were simply saying things sometimes to debate others. I would take it as given that you were Indian.

And you make Rabri.... how can anyone not treat you with reverence?

[Suvir Saran]

I hear you and understand, but don't you think that when the British first developed "curry powder" they thought they were making garam masala?

Not at all. They were cetainly thinking they were making some Masala. But certainly not even remotely close to Garam Masala.

Garam Masala to Indian cooking is like Herbs de Provence is to French cooking. It is a finishing spice, a spice not always used. A spice from a certain region.

The British loved and craved the very bold flavors of Indian food they had been hooked to. They now needed a way of making food bold and spicy without spending hours grinding, roasting, frying or mincing spicing and herbs. With Curry Powder, they were able to get most of it in one spoonful.

Garam Masala is only used as a pinch or two or even at the most one teaspoon and those recipes calling for that much are few and far between. Garam Masala is what defines the "haath ki safaayi" that many Indian chefs have forgotten.

"Haath ki Safaayi" is translated into english as the wizardry of a masters hand. Those that know Indian food know the delicate but warm complexity that Garam Masala adds to dishes. They also know that just a tiny amount, over cooked or under cooked can ruin a dish. Not so with Curry Powder. No such subtlety exists.

The Brits were simply trying to create a blend that would eliminate the need for each kitchen to have containers and spice boxed filled with at times upto or more than 24 spices and ingredients.

[ShawtyCat]

  I'm sorry this question turned up on the Indian board, because I think it is a big mistake to think of it as Indian. I can see how a naive person might get a completely mistaken notion of Indian food because of the name.

I can honestly say, being West Indian, that you can blame the whole Curry Powder snafu on us. Yes, so the British made this stuff but we are the ones responsible for cooking it into submission. For example: Curry Chicken, Curry Goat or Rotis made with a Curried Potato/Beef/Goat or Chicken filling. We add it to soups, stews and ((gasp)) Rice on occasion. I do believe we are very overzealous with this Powder. You know....maybe the British really ARE at fault here. If they hadn't given us such a short cut to adding spices.

I can say, however, that the Powder you find in the supermarket is NOT the one we cook with. If you want to find the favourite brand of Curry Powder that the West Indies uses look for Indian Head. You will only find this at the Asian market. The Curry Powder (from the local supermarket) that I have had the misfortune of buying tasted like chalk. Bleah!

The one ingredient I have always identified with Indian cooking was Yogurt. I kept seeing yogurt (plus Garam Masala) everytime I cracked open a cookbook and located an Indian or Indian inspired recipe. I wonder why no one noticed that Curry Powder is used (probably by the tonnage ) in the West Indies.

[Jaymes]

It's embarrassing to admit using it, but since there are others on eGullet who admit to eating White Castle burgers and worse, I've decided to come clean.  

Well, okay... since Sandra admitted it, I will too.

I'm all for those marvelous Brits who decided they didn't want to spend hours in the kitchen blending and roasting. Bully for them, I say. Although it's fun to do on occasion I, like the Brits, don't want to do it on a regular basis, either.

I always have prepared curry powder available. I buy "Sun Brand Madras Curry Powder" from Merwanjee Poonjiajee & Sons. It's just so blinking easy. And, when I was cooking for a family of five, there was no way I wanted to stretch my time in the kitchen into more than absolutely necessary. I can always zip it up with additional cumin or tumeric or chile powder or whatever, if I want.

Also, as has been explored on another thread, I did have a goal of introducing my children to as many different tastes as possible, but turning out gourmet meals at home was pretty far down my priority list.

I have lots of recipes (although only one of them would be classified as "Indian") wherein I use a dash of curry here or there. And they are invariably big hits.

There, I've said it... "My name is Jaymes and I use curry powder."

[Blue Heron]

 I buy "Sun Brand Madras Curry Powder" from Merwanjee Poonjiajee & Sons.  

That's the brand I have at home too that was touted by my gourmet grocery store as being the best (in their particular store).

Over the weekend I used some to make curried deviled eggs, and also some curried egg salad (in Martha Stewart's cookbook). It was pretty yummy, and I even toasted the curry powder first, as recommended by Suvir.

Tomorrow my plan is to make a curried chicken rice salad made with a recipe from the book that bellaSF recommended in the Chicken Curry Salad thread. The author of the cookbook (Joyce Goldstein, chef of Square One in SF) includes about 1/2 doz. recipes in her book that call for curry powder.

[gknl]

I'm all for those marvelous Brits who decided they didn't want to spend hours in the kitchen blending and roasting.  Bully for them, I say.  Although it's fun to do on occasion I, like the Brits, don't want to do it on a regular basis, either.

I always have prepared curry powder available.  I buy "Sun Brand Madras Curry Powder" from Merwanjee Poonjiajee & Sons.  It's just so blinking easy.  

I use that brand too, and the "house" curry powder sold in bulk at the Indian market I go to in Berkeley, CA. Someone has to be using the stuff for them to sell it like that!

Am I taking shortcuts? Yes. Does it matter most of the time for what I use it for? Not to me anyway. Do my Indian friends use it? Decidedly no, but they did say "they weren't bad" when they smelled them.

I use the market's pre-made garam masala powder too, another shortcut which works for me. And again, my friends make their own, but said that this one wasn't bad either.

This thread made me check my spice cabinet and I'm getting low. Time for a trip!

[Bux]

I always have prepared curry powder available.  I buy "Sun Brand Madras Curry Powder" from Merwanjee Poonjiajee & Sons.

I've used this and other brands. This brand has been the most useful to me. I do not cook Indian food. I basically use curry powder as the base for one sauce, although it's a sauce that has variants depending on what it's going to accompany or what is going to be braised in it. Curry powder is never the single seasoning in the sauce or the dish. Other spices, herbs and garlic often appear in the dish. Overall, when I use curry powder the dish is going to have a French/American nature with perhaps a flavor reminiscent of the Indian subcontinent and will often be a dish with which I choose to serve a chutney or two. One of those might be a West Indian chutney. If my dish has any resemblance to Caribbean food, it's to the food of the French West Indies and similar to what's generally called a "columbo."

I will also use a pinch of curry powder in other foods that I don't want to have any Indian connection. I use the powder as if it were any other powder. I know the taste and use it for the flavor of that taste as I used cumin for that flavor. It's no more a shorcut than not grinding my own paprika.

[Saffy]

I have a jar of curry powder that gets used for one recipe only in this house and that is a meatloaf that my kids like.

I make curry a variety of ways, using a pre packed paste, or from scratch either paste or dry curry too. Depends entirely how much time I have. I do keep a tub of green and red thai curry pastes in the fridge since we have often have a thai curry for a quick dinner.

I am happy to use a quality purchased product, but even more happy if I have the time to create something from the beginning as well.

[frankj]

My experience is that prepared spice mixes in Indian groceries are often great. They save time and, frankly, I don't think I could improve on them no matter how I tried. My only complaint is that they come in little boxes with cellophane packages that don't keep and are less functional than traditional spice jars.

However, my rule of thumb is "never buy anything that has curry in the title." I have yet to find a "curry" blend that I really like. So, if it doesn't say curry, be sure to try it.

[Simon Majumdar]

The real problem with "curry powders" as with all ground spices is that people who do not prepare indian food regularly leave them in the larder for months on end before looking at them again. By the time they do get to them, they are useless and can add a nasty taste to the food.

My suggestion is to mix your own masala from fresh ( where possible ) or newly bought ground spices and put into small plasic bags and pop in the freezer. Not only will they keep but you also have just the right amount for each dish

I keep a few ready prepared masalas in the freezer

Turmeric/Ginger/mustard - For my fish

Cumin/Chilli/Cinnamon/Fenugreek/turmeric - as a general masala for meats and poultry

When added to the longer lasting whole spices ( curry leaves, Cinnamon Stick, Cardamon, Cumin seeds, Kalonji etc ) these can be used for just about every dish.

I never buy "curry powder" and very rarely buy pre-mixed masala. I just don't think the taste is the same

In the end it boils down to your views on cooking. If cooking is a means to an end, i.e to prepare tasty food but not spend forever in the kitchen, then pre-prepared is fine. If however, cooking is the end in itself, what could be better than the taste of food prepared with spices you have prepared and ground yourself?

S

[oraklet]

indian cooking, when done the real way, is very complex and time consuming. so, i don't make real indian meals, only very plain curries. i started out, of course, with the powders, then one day found an indian store with allmost a hundred different pastes. i began using patak's curries, and slowly came to making my own curries. but the kids still prefer it to be based on the powder, only with some coriander and cumin plus canelle(?) and cloves, thus hinting at a rogan josh.

a real rogan josh is fantastic. i have made it once for a globetrotting friend who had not been to india for a while...he was very polite in his critique.

[LaNiña]

Why do you say "real" Indian cooking is complex and time-consuming? There are lots and lots of very real Indian dishes that are neither.

[Simon Majumdar]

I think the correct phrase would be to say "some Indian cooking" is complex and time consuming, but then so can cooking from many other cultures.

I know of Jewish chicken soup recipes which take days and I have spent a week prepping a duck to prepare Peking Style.

There is beauty in both the simple and the complex.

S

[LaNiña]

What "Jewish" chicken soup recipe takes "days?"

[oraklet]

oh. i stand corrected. thanks you, nina and simon.

and i may have to take another look at the indian recipes hidden away somewhere among my cook books.

[cinghiale]

I'm staying in central Vermont at a friend's guest house, and I decide to make us all some curry. Back in Philly, I get fresh, store-made curry powder at the Spice Corner in the Italian Market, and I know I'm gonna have to go w/supermarket bottled powder. No big deal, I thought. At the store, I reach for the venerable Spice Islands curry powder, check out the ingredients, and find the following: "Red Pepper, Turmeric (for coloring)". I check out the lesser brands and find the same contents. Screw it: I'm not paying $6 for a bottle of colored pepper, and I decide to make do with any ancient spices back at the house.

Upon my return to the house, I locate the spices and -- voila -- there's an age-old bottle of Spice Islands Curry Powder. I check the ingredients: "Cumin, Coriander, Fenugreek, Ginger, Turmeric, Dill Seed, Black Pepper, Red Pepper, Mace, Cardamom, Cloves".

So, when did Spice Islands dumb down their curry powder? And why? Is a mix of the old formula that much more expensive? Is it ethical, fair, whatever to market colored pepper as "curry"? At a minimum, Spice Islands has lost me as a customer forever, since I apparently can no longer trust any of their spices to be authentic. Thoughts?

[merstar]

I'm staying in central Vermont at a friend's guest house, and I decide to make us all some curry.  Back in Philly, I get fresh, store-made curry powder at the Spice Corner in the Italian Market, and I know I'm gonna have to go w/supermarket bottled powder.  No big deal, I thought.  At the store, I reach for the venerable Spice Islands curry powder, check out the ingredients, and find the following: "Red Pepper, Turmeric (for coloring)".  I check out the lesser brands and find the same contents.  Screw it: I'm not paying $6 for a bottle of colored pepper, and I decide to make do with any ancient spices back at the house.

Upon my return to the house, I locate the spices and -- voila -- there's an age-old bottle of Spice Islands Curry Powder.  I check the ingredients: "Cumin, Coriander, Fenugreek, Ginger, Turmeric, Dill Seed, Black Pepper, Red Pepper, Mace, Cardamom, Cloves".

So, when did Spice Islands dumb down their curry powder?  And why?  Is a mix of the old formula that much more expensive?  Is it ethical, fair, whatever to market colored pepper as "curry"?  At a minimum, Spice Islands has lost me as a customer forever, since I apparently can no longer trust any of their spices to be authentic.  Thoughts?

←

I posted a response at:

http://forums.egullet.org/index.php?showto...0entry1432330

[waaza]

I'm staying in central Vermont at a friend's guest house, and I decide to make us all some curry.  Back in Philly, I get fresh, store-made curry powder at the Spice Corner in the Italian Market, and I know I'm gonna have to go w/supermarket bottled powder.  No big deal, I thought.  At the store, I reach for the venerable Spice Islands curry powder, check out the ingredients, and find the following: "Red Pepper, Turmeric (for coloring)".  I check out the lesser brands and find the same contents.  Screw it: I'm not paying $6 for a bottle of colored pepper, and I decide to make do with any ancient spices back at the house.

Upon my return to the house, I locate the spices and -- voila -- there's an age-old bottle of Spice Islands Curry Powder.  I check the ingredients: "Cumin, Coriander, Fenugreek, Ginger, Turmeric, Dill Seed, Black Pepper, Red Pepper, Mace, Cardamom, Cloves".

So, when did Spice Islands dumb down their curry powder?  And why?  Is a mix of the old formula that much more expensive?  Is it ethical, fair, whatever to market colored pepper as "curry"?  At a minimum, Spice Islands has lost me as a customer forever, since I apparently can no longer trust any of their spices to be authentic.  Thoughts?

←

looks like you may have misinterpreted the label, does it say 'Spices, chilli, turmeric', this could mean '[many] spices plus chilli plus turmeric'. Maybe they don't want people to know the spices they use, or maybe they vary it for whatever reason. My advice to you is to move on in culinary terms, and start to use the individual spices. That way every different dish (there are hundreds) will taste as it should, not just 'meat and curry sauce' flavour.

And these days, with intentional adulteration possible, do you know what you are getting? Best buy whole spices and grind on demand.

cheers

Waaza