Kosher question

[jsolomon]

So, I am catering my wedding reception. It's in Nebraska, The Beef State. So, no problem, right?

Well, I have friends who have Wiccan friends with food requirements (nothing that walked on land) and now I have people who also keep kosher.

I am hoping I can kill two birds with one stone. My question is, is milk-poached fish (catfish in this case) kosher? If not, can someone point me to an easy, kosher, fish recipe?

edit: clarification downthread from mizducky, the Wiccans' food requirements may not be related to their religion.

Edited May 4, 2006 by jsolomon (log)

[ronnie_suburban]

I believe that catfish is never Kosher. I'm not certain of that, though.

Here's a link to a good Kosher site's Fish guide.

Congrats, btw

=R=

[KatieLoeb]

I believe that catfish is never Kosher.  I'm not certain of that, though.

Here's a link to a good Kosher site's Fish guide.

Congrats, btw

=R=

←

Catfish is NOT kosher. For a fish to be kosher it has to have fins and scales. Catfish have no scales, hence they don't make the cut.

I'd suggest Red Snapper or Salmon, both are popular and I'm certain any decent caterer has a long list of ways to prepare either that would please your guests.

[Daniel Rogov]

Indeed, catfish are not kosher. The good news is that both trout and bass are and the following recipe can be used with either....

Truite a la Bourguinnone

Trout in Red Wine

4 trout (can use either brown or rainbow trout)

1 bottle good (but not overly expensive) Burgundy red

1 carrot, sliced thinly

1 onion, sliced thinly

1 small bouquet garni

200 gr. small champignon mushrooms

300 gr. baby onions

60 gr. clarified butter

pinch of sugar

20 gr. flour

1 Tbsp. chopped parsley

salt and freshly ground pepper

Trim and clean the fish (your fishmonger can do this for you). Wash the fish in very cold water, making sure no traces of blood or intestines remain. Pat dry with paper toweling.

Grease a gratin dish that is large enough to hold all of the fish in one layer. Season the fish inside and out with salt and pepper and place in the dish. Pour over the wine and place the sliced carrots and onions and the bouquet garni between the fish.

Prepare the mushrooms by peeling and wiping them. Finely slice the stems and put them in the gratin dish with the trout. Reserve the caps for the garnish.

Peel, wash and dry the small onions. In a small saucepan heat the butter and when melted add the onions and sugar and cook until golden brown, tossing often. Add 2 Tbsp. of water, cover and let stand in a warm place.

Cook the trout in an oven that has been preheated to 220 degrees Celsius (425 Fahrenheit) for 10 minutes, basting them with the cooking liquids after 5 minutes. With a large spatula, gently transfer the fish to a serving dish, making sure the fish drain well before setting them on the platter. Cover with aluminum foil to keep warm.

To prepare the sauce, mash together 30 gr. of the butter and the flour. Set the gratin dish containing the cooking liquids from the fish over a low heat and whisk in the butter-flour mixture. Bring to the boil, let the sauce boil gently for 5 minutes, whisking continuously with a wire whisk and then pass through a sieve to a clean saucepan. Simmer (but do not boil) the sauce for 5 minutes and then add the mushroom caps and cook gently for 3 minutes longer. Stir in the remaining butter, add the small onions to the sauce and heat through for 45 - 60 seconds, taking care not to let the sauce boil. Season to taste with salt and pepper, pour the hot sauce over the trout, sprinkle with parsley and serve at once, traditionally with plain steamed potatoes. Ideally served with a medium-bodied Pinot Noir or a cru Beaujolais wine.

[HKDave]

Ronnie is right. For a fish to be kosher it needs fins and scales, and the scales have to be easily removeable without tearing the skin. Details here http://www.kashrut.com/articles/fishfaq/

The fact that it's poached in milk doesn't matter. Fish are not considered 'meat', so they can be cooked with milk.

[Gifted Gourmet]

Indeed, catfish are not kosher. The good news is that both trout and bass are and the following recipe can be used with either....

Truite a la Bourguinnone

Trout in Red Wine

1 bottle good (but not overly expensive) Burgundy red

Having had a kosher kitchen for some 38+ years, I agree .. catfish is never kosher but many fish are fine ..

that said, while I like Daniel Rogov's idea about poaching in wine ... however, please know that the wines must be kosher ...

and as for kosher? there are many variations on what constitutes kosher ... some more and some less stringent ...

[Pam R]

How kosher are these guests? Make sure they'll eat what you prepare, even if the ingredients ARE kosher. Otherwise you're going to a lot of trouble for nothing.

Some people who keep kosher will eat food as long as the ingredients are kosher, others will only eat out of a 'kosher kitchen'.

[Gifted Gourmet]

Some people who keep kosher will eat food as long as the ingredients are kosher, others will only eat out of a 'kosher kitchen'.

←

Which is what I meant by stringent ... do determine the level of kashruth for them to eat first before making final decisions on the food involved ...

jsolomon: as per your request in the initial post:

easy kosher fish recipes

[mizducky]

So, I am catering my wedding reception.  It's in Nebraska, The Beef State.  So, no problem, right?

Well, I have friends who have Wiccan food requirements (nothing that walked on land) and now I have people who also keep kosher.

I am hoping I can kill two birds with one stone.  My question is, is milk-poached fish (catfish in this case) kosher?  If not, can someone point me to an easy, kosher, fish recipe?

←

I see others have tackled the kashrut question already, so I'd just like to offer a point of clarification about the Wiccan aspect of things here.

I have hung with a *lot* of Wiccans/Pagans of all different stripes over the years, but I have yet to hear of any tradition having specific food requirements. Not to question your guests' food requirements, nor to say that there aren't some Pagans out there who have adopted some form of vegetarianism as part of their spiritual practice--hey, the Wiccan/Pagan community is huge and almost by definition extremely decentralized, so anybody could found a "tradition" of their own with practices that have meaning to them. But I just wanted to make it clear that there are no "blanket" Wiccan food practices out there. In fact, I've met all kinds of Wiccans who enthusiastically eat all kinds of critters who have walked on land.

Not that this affects your situation, jsolomon, but like I said, just wanted to clarify in case anyone out there was wondering.

[Gifted Gourmet]

there are no "blanket" Wiccan food practices out there.

←

Thank you, Rabbi Ducky! Where do I sign up to become a Wiccan? Can I get by with Wiccan Gefilte Fish? Are there any dues?

[mizducky]

there are no "blanket" Wiccan food practices out there.

←

Thank you, Rabbi Ducky! Where do I sign up to become a Wiccan? Can I get by with Wiccan Gefilte Fish? Are there any dues?

←

Well, I haven't personally checked out the following book, but according to its description on Amazon.com, you can not only find out some suggested dishes for various Wiccan festivals and special occasions, but also get an intro to the tradition(s) in general:

The Wicca Cookbook

You'll even notice that these modern Wiccan cookbook writers feel free to incorporate dishes from other cultural traditions. No, there's no recipe for gefilte fish, but there is one for latkes.

As a matter of fact--jsolomon, you might find this cookbook useful for your wedding reception. (Be aware that there are some land-critter recipes in there, but there also seem to be fish and vegetarian recipes as well.)

[Swisskaese]

If they are strict Kosher, then you will also have a problem with the plates and utensils. The truth is, if they are strict, they won't eat anything at your wedding.

I would stay away from cream sauces and poaching fish in milk because some people will only use certain milk products.

Salmon is an excellent safe fish. No shellfish. Some chefs, believe it or not, do not know the difference between fish and shellfish. No clams, mussels, shrimp, oysters, etc. Make sure the vegetables do not have meat in them, such as bacon or some sort of pork for flavouring and also make sure that the vegetables, pasta and rice or not flavoured with chicken bouillon or beef bouillon which is not Kosher.

Cheese that is not Kosher are also forbidden. Some people that keep Kosher might eat some non-Kosher cheeses.

If you are serving wine with dinner, you might want to have a bottle of red and white Kosher wine for them. Not Maneschevitz (sp?) concord please!. Hopefully, you can fine Yarden or Barkan cabernet sauvignon and chardonnay. If you have access to more premium Kosher wines, then I and I am sure Daniel Rogov will be happy to help.

Edited May 4, 2006 by Swisskaese (log)

[jsolomon]

I'd suggest Red Snapper or Salmon, both are popular and I'm certain any decent caterer has a long list of ways to prepare either that would please your guests.

←

I'm sure they do, and I'm sure that if I look through my (the caterer's) cookbooks, I do too. It was just that milk-poached catfish was the first thing that came to mind.

I assume that means halibut would be out, too. Can someone recommend a white-fleshed fish? Or something that would be appropriate to be poached in a court-bouillon?

Edit to add: I've already checked on how strict they keep kosher, and I'm in the clear, but I've other diets to maintain, so, again, two birds, one stone.

Edited May 4, 2006 by jsolomon (log)

[Swisskaese]

I'd suggest Red Snapper or Salmon, both are popular and I'm certain any decent caterer has a long list of ways to prepare either that would please your guests.

←

I assume that means halibut would be out, too. Can someone recommend a white-fleshed fish? Or something that would be appropriate to be poached in a court-bouillon?

←

Halibut is Kosher.

What do you mean by "you are in the clear"? What type of Kosher do they keep?

Take a look a the link that Ronnie provided. It is correct. I keep Kosher.

The best wedding fish I had was salmon with a pistachio crust. You spread a thin layer on pesto on the fish and then coat the top with chopped pistachios and bake it in the oven. It is delicious.

Edited May 4, 2006 by Swisskaese (log)

[jsolomon]

Indeed, catfish are not kosher.  The good news is that both trout and bass are and the following recipe can be used with either....

Truite a la Bourguinnone

Trout in Red Wine

←

Daniel, thank you for the kind suggestion. Do you have something that would be more appropriately cooked with wine that I am nearly swimming in? I have many bottles of pinot grigiot, and the meal is going to be served Sandhills bourgeois so the drinks are going to be beer and a little champagne. That's why I asked about the halibut.

Ronnie_suburban, thanks for the link. I found that halibut is kosher. I'm thinking halibut or salmon. I also have some smoked trout that might find its way there... I'm not sure yet.

[Swisskaese]

Indeed, catfish are not kosher.  The good news is that both trout and bass are and the following recipe can be used with either....

Truite a la Bourguinnone

Trout in Red Wine

←

Daniel, thank you for the kind suggestion. Do you have something that would be more appropriately cooked with wine that I am nearly swimming in? I have many bottles of pinot grigiot, and the meal is going to be served Sandhills bourgeois so the drinks are going to be beer and a little champagne. That's why I asked about the halibut.

Ronnie_suburban, thanks for the link. I found that halibut is kosher. I'm thinking halibut or salmon. I also have some smoked trout that might find its way there... I'm not sure yet.

←

Do they drink non-Kosher wine? If not, then you can't cook with non-Kosher pinot grigio

[jsolomon]

What do you mean by "you are in the clear"? What type of Kosher do they keep?

←

jsolomon=Methodist

I know kosher like most people know Unix. Not only do I not know what kind of kosher they keep (although I am aware that there are more than one kind) I do not have access to much kosher food. I do not believe that there is a Jewish Temple in my town. I know that where I am from there isn't a Jewish temple for several hundred miles, and where my fiance is from, there isn't one for quite a ways, also.

Also, I do not have access to my oven, as that is being used. Catering for my wedding reception out of my 50 sq foot kitchen is going to be difficult, so at some point I have to cut my losses and only do what I am able.

I am also catering out of my own pocket, which is mostly lint.

They also currently live 800 miles away, so I don't know what kind of wine they drink. But, I will try to keep the kosher/lower cal/conscientious meal option in the realm of very relaxed kosher eating.

I am a stranger in a strange land when it comes to kosher, so ask simple questions. I am trying to learn and be a good neighbor/family member. I'se ignernt, though.

Directions from my hometown to the nearest synagogue. Note the distance.

Edited May 4, 2006 by jsolomon (log)

[Gifted Gourmet]

realm of very relaxed kosher eating.

←

a very good plan ... many people who are Jewish eat only fish and/or dairy items outside their homes .. they are sometimes referred to as "Metrodox" ... they just don't eat meat out ... I am married to one ...

my friend, Binyamin Cohen, explains it here

[Swisskaese]

No problem. You don't need access to Kosher items.

Okay. The easiest thing to do is to buy the throw away aluminum baking pans. The ones you find in the paper plate section of the supermarket. Cook their food in this. This way you don't have to worry about cooking in non-kosher pots.

I would suggest baking something.

Here is a recipe for Tagine Hallibut

Steam some vegetables for them and serve it with a side of roasted potatoes or pasta or rice. You can make a steamer by buying a round throwaway aluminum container, put a few small holes in the bottom and place it over a pot of steaming water.

Bake the potatoes in the oven in one of the throw away pans. Roast them with rosemary or something.

If they don't mind eating off of regular plates, then serve them on whatever you are using. However, if they do mind, you should buy a nice set of heavy plastic dishes. The crystal looking ones that they have at party stores, with heavy plastic knives, forks and spoons. Make sure that you get them cups or plastic wine glasses for their drinks.

I just saw that you don't have access to an oven. Okay. so do you have a wok and bamboo steamer baskets? Can you tell I have done this before. You could cook the vegetables, the potatoes and make fish in papillote all in the bamboo steamer.

Edited May 4, 2006 by Swisskaese (log)

[Tapenade]

I think this business of only drinking kosher wine, to say nothing of only cooking with it, is absurd, and is based on rules that originate much later than the main laws of kashrut and are not found in the Torah. I've kept kosher for most of my adult life, but nothing will stop me from drinking wines of whatever provenance, irrespective of whether they were made and supervised by suitably religious Jews. The risk that I'm going to be forcibly baptised, or otherwise transmogrified into a Christian, as a result of drinking wine otherwised used for the sacrament, or that I am going to marry a non-Jewish women because I've been drinking the wrong wine, is infinitesimal to zero. What is even more ridiculous is that I can drink beer, whiskey, vodka, sliwowitz or tequila with, and made by, non-Jews without the slightest ostensible risk or breach of what some other Jews think is an essential law: it's only wine that is restricted. By the way, I know plenty of other people who keep kosher but also think the kosher wine business is humbug. Apparently, paranoia is no longer a deciding factor in oenological taste.

David

Indeed, catfish are not kosher. The good news is that both trout and bass are and the following recipe can be used with either....

Truite a la Bourguinnone

Trout in Red Wine

1 bottle good (but not overly expensive) Burgundy red

Having had a kosher kitchen for some 38+ years, I agree .. catfish is never kosher but many fish are fine ..

that said, while I like Daniel Rogov's idea about poaching in wine ... however, please know that the wines must be kosher ...

and as for kosher? there are many variations on what constitutes kosher ... some more and some less stringent ...

←

[Tapenade]

That's more or less what I do, except that I do eat halal meat, at least if I'm in a Muslim country. After all, Islam borrowed a great deal of its laws and customs from Judaism.

realm of very relaxed kosher eating.

←

a very good plan ... many people who are Jewish eat only fish and/or dairy items outside their homes .. they are sometimes referred to as "Metrodox" ... they just don't eat meat out ... I am married to one ...

my friend, Binyamin Cohen, explains it here

←

[scubadoo97]

From Judaism 101

http://www.jewfaq.org/kashrut.htm

"Grape Products

The restrictions on grape products derive from the laws against using products of idolatry. Wine was commonly used in the rituals of all ancient religions, and wine was routinely sanctified for pagan purposes while it was being processed. For this reason, use of wines and other grape products made by non-Jews was prohibited. (Whole grapes are not a problem, nor are whole grapes in fruit cocktail).

For the most part, this rule only affects wine and grape juice. This becomes a concern with many fruit drinks or fruit-flavored drinks, which are often sweetened with grape juice. You may also notice that some baking powders are not kosher, because baking powder is sometimes made with cream of tartar, a by-product of wine making"

[Pam R]

First - I think it's wonderful that you're trying to accommodate everybody who attends your wedding. I don't think it's something that should make you crazy - you should be able to enjoy the day!

If your kosher guests are terribly religious, going to a town for a wedding where they know there are no kosher sources - I'm sure that they'd mention this issue to you. And if they ARE strictly kosher, believe me they'll research the food sources before travelling. They may just travel with their own food.

It would be nice if you could have some kosher wine - but if it's not something that's available, don't worry about it. There will be beer. Or ... heaven forbid, water (soft drinks and juice are also options).

Other suggestions have been given for fish - salmon, halibut, sole, haddock, tuna, walleye, seabass etc. If any of this fit into your plans, great. Hopefully your guests will eat up and enjoy.

The only additional suggestion I have is to have some raw fruits and vegetables. I've known some rabbis who wouldn't eat cooked foods in restaurants but would have a salad.

At the end of the day, I hope you are able to have a relaxed, enjoyable wedding. Mazel Tov!

[jsolomon]

For the salad, there will be a reasonable amount of coleslaw, probably from Marlene's recipe and clearly marked "for those with dietary considerations" or some such thing.

Does anyone have a good court bouillon recipe, or should I just use the one from "Joy of Cooking"?

[Swisskaese]

For the salad, there will be a reasonable amount of coleslaw, probably from Marlene's recipe and clearly marked "for those with dietary considerations" or some such thing.

Does anyone have a good court bouillon recipe, or should I just use the one from "Joy of Cooking"?

←

Martha Stewart has a nice recipe for a court bouillon. Poached Halibut in Warm Herb Vinaigrette.

Edited May 4, 2006 by Swisskaese (log)