Copper River King Salmon

[philadining]

So, what do you think would be an ideal serving size, especially in terms of reacting to the cure, roasting without drying out, etc... 8 oz is still one big-ass piece if fish! But do smaller pieces risk getting dried, or over-cured?

[docsconz]

I get mine from Sea Bear out of Washington state--supposedly 2 days after it's caught.  Really special--better than I've found in stores. Expensive though. Mine will come in mid june.

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Do you have a link?

[Diann]

So, what do you think would be an ideal serving size, especially in terms of reacting to the cure, roasting without drying out, etc...  8 oz is still one big-ass piece if fish!  But do smaller pieces risk getting dried, or over-cured?

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Last night, I cured one six ounce piece for an hour, with Vadouvan's cure, then roasted at 225 for a little over 20 minutes. A little bit of the fat did start to leach out, but I caught it in time and the fish turned out great -- unctuous, silky, tender. I don't know if, say, a four ounce piece would get dried out or over-cured, but six ounces seems to work just fine.

For what it's worth, I brushed teriyaki sauce on the other piece, roasted that too, and the results were equally good.

Edited May 3, 2006 by Diann (log)

[Jeff L]

Approximately how long to slow roast with 1 pound of salmon? I know you said until it flakes, but how much time does this usually take you?

Also, does this method make ordinary salmon taste much better too? I'm not sure I can locate the King around here

I dont know that it makes ordinary salmon taste "better" however slow roasting properly executed allows you to taste unnoticed Nuaces of salmon cooked by traditional methods....in my opinion.

You can find KING at the markets, strangely I was at Reading terminal, Citarella and Chelsea market yesterday and found KING salmon all 3 places.

1lb of Salmon = 16 0z.

That's one big ass piece of fish.

Please note that if you intend to portion this piece of fish, you should do it before you cook it and quite frankly before you cure it.

If you try to cut it after it flakes, its a mess as opposed to a clean raw slice.

ALSO.....

Huge pieces dont distribute cures evenly.

I would do it in maximum 8oz pieces.

1.If your oven is preheated and the fish is from the refrigerator, estimate 20-25 minutes.

2.If your oven is preheated and you bring the fish close to room temp for about 15 minutes

before cooking 15 to 20 minutes....based on your appreciation of sashimi. (best method).

3.If your oven is not preheated..........preheat your oven and refer to #2.

4.If your oven does *not* have convection, add 5 minutes to cooking time.

The Acid Test of slow roasting....

If the white milky proteins are leaching out of the fish. its getting overcooked.

Cheers

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Didn't mean to suggest that I would be scarfing down the entire 16 oz piece. It will serve my wife and daughter too. I was planning on having 3 6 oz portions just to be clear. My oven is not convection and I usually let the fish/meat come close to room temp when possible prior to cooking.

Anyhow, thanks for the tips and I'll check the markets tomorrow.

[tsquare]

Season should be starting May 15. Buy your own here:

ChefShop

[Bobby 2 Shakes]

After reading the Fuji thread, I think maybe that would be the best place to try king salmon.

[docsconz]

While not Copper River King Salmon my wife followed Vadouvan's instructions while slow roasting arctic char for my birthday dinner tonight. It was extraordinary. The char had been in our freezer after purchase from Browne's Trading Co.

[mattkantor]

Im in portland right now....the fish here is amazing (as you would expect). Maybe I'll see some CRS, but I think I may be early by a week. Oh well...

Try POACHING your fish at around 140F....makes for a nice texture...takes about 12-13 minutes for six oz pieces assuming the temp is steady. You can do it in infused oil or olive oil...or stock too but the oil seems to give you a beter product..I think it keeps all the fat inside the meat. I usually do star anise and vanilla bean, but lemon oil is good too...

At Gayle, they make a really good lemon oil and poached tasmanian trout in it. I'll tell you, that is indeed one tasty fish.

[Saara]

I get mine from Sea Bear out of Washington state--supposedly 2 days after it's caught.  Really special--better than I've found in stores. Expensive though. Mine will come in mid june.

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Do you have a link?

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SeaBear

I used to live nearby and they do have excellent products if a little pricey.

[Jeff L]

Approximately how long to slow roast with 1 pound of salmon? I know you said until it flakes, but how much time does this usually take you?

Also, does this method make ordinary salmon taste much better too? I'm not sure I can locate the King around here

I dont know that it makes ordinary salmon taste "better" however slow roasting properly executed allows you to taste unnoticed Nuaces of salmon cooked by traditional methods....in my opinion.

I would do it in maximum 8oz pieces.

1.If your oven is preheated and the fish is from the refrigerator, estimate 20-25 minutes.

2.If your oven is preheated and you bring the fish close to room temp for about 15 minutes

before cooking 15 to 20 minutes....based on your appreciation of sashimi. (best method).

3.If your oven is not preheated..........preheat your oven and refer to #2.

4.If your oven does *not* have convection, add 5 minutes to cooking time.

The Acid Test of slow roasting....

If the white milky proteins are leaching out of the fish. its getting overcooked.

Cheers

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Vadouvan, this is now the only way I will cook salmon. I actually had 2 pieces of regular (not King) salmon my wife got from Genaurdi's that weighed about 1.4 lbs. I cut them into approx 4 6 oz portions and followed your rub and cooking instructions to the tee.

What resulted was the best piece of fish I ever cooked! As Diann mentioned, it was silky and tender. I caught it just before the white proteins came out and it was perfectly cooked. My youngest daughter (19) who doesn't do fish even loved it. My oldest daughter who loves salmon really enjoyed it as well.

My thanks to you kind sir. Heretofor I either grilled or poached the salmon. Grilling indeed dries it out and I could never really master the poaching technique to my satifaction. This way is great.

[Vadouvan]

Quite welcome Jeff......

I have always believed cooking salmon any other way kills not only the flavor but also the texture.

The *only* other better way I have ever had salmon is significantly more complicated, however if you are looking for a good challenge.......

It involves giving it the "Matsuhisa" treatment ......AKA......"Saikyo-yaki"

Charcoal grilling after that...ROCKS.

slow roasting is also awesome.

Marinate 3 days in "Saikyo-Miso" and then finishing on a japanese grill with "Bincho-Tan" charcoal.

It's much easier to accomplish if you are in New york as none of this stuff is availble in philly.

[Jeff L]

Quite welcome Jeff......

I have always believed cooking salmon any other way kills not only the flavor but also the texture.

The *only* other better way I have ever had salmon is significantly more complicated, however if you are looking for a good challenge.......

It involves giving it the "Matsuhisa" treatment ......AKA......"Saikyo-yaki"

Charcoal grilling after that...ROCKS.

slow roasting is also awesome.

Marinate 3 days in "Saikyo-Miso" and then finishing on a japanese grill with "Bincho-Tan" charcoal.

It's much easier to accomplish if you are in New york as none of this stuff is availble in philly.

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I'm not even in Philly, Bucks County to be exact so it won't be happening any time soon. The process does sound interesting though.

I do a lot of smoking - what is Bincho-Tan charcoal? Also, have you ever smoked salmon and if so what is your preferred method?

[Vadouvan]

Bincho -Tan is the rectangular shaped japanese smokeless charcoal used for Authentic Yakitori.

It's a pain in the ass to find in the USA but you can buy it in New York.

Searing heat and beautiful flavor.

I smoke salmon now and then.

My preferred method is "Scotch smoking".

Cure salt and/or sugar

rinse.

Dry under refrigeration till pellicle forms on surface.

Cold smoke.

Control smoke box temperature to bring salmon natural oil to the surface.

Submerge in vegetable oil for 24 hrs.

Remove, dry and slice.

I modified a hot smoker I bought online to cold smoke, its pretty easy, just have to build a remote smoke generator so no heat is transferred.

I also let the smoke pass through a grate filled with ice cubes.

Perfect and ends up costing 2.95 a lb as opposed to 19.95/lb

[shacke]

Mix together.

1/4 cup of Kosher or Maldon salt

1/4 cup Superfine Sugar not powdered 10x......superfine.

The zest of 2 large lemons, removed with a microplane, no other tool.

Rub your boneless salmon filets with this mixture.

About 1 tablespoon for every 8 oz of fish.

Top with one fresh bay leaf and wrap tight in plastic.

Refrigerate for 2hrs max.

Rinse of fish, dry well with lint free cotton or food grade paper towel.

Rub lightly with high quality EVOO.

Bake in a 225 degree oven till it just flakes and no white liquid (coagulated proteins) are oozing out of it yet.

Works great with Char,Ocean Trout, Mackrel, hamachi.

Tried it tonight and it worked out really well.

[Jeff L]

I get mine from Sea Bear out of Washington state--supposedly 2 days after it's caught.  Really special--better than I've found in stores. Expensive though. Mine will come in mid june.

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Do you have a link?

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Today's Inquirer has a great article on Alaskan King salmon. There are also four shippers mentioned that ship direct to consumers. One of the four is Rory Williams of Copper Wild Seafood.

http://www.philly.com/mld/philly/email/ent...ng/14604183.htm

[dagordon]

Vadouvan, you are a genius. We used your method on king salmon that I brought back from Citarella in nyc tonight, and it was amazing. The texture was unlike any cooked salmon I've ever had -- smooth, almost creamy, melt-in-your-mouth. And it really brought out the pure flavor of the fish.

I did, however, experiment with an extra piece of salmon that we had cooked your way that was left over -- I seared it on an incredibly hot cast iron skillet for like a minute on each side. The outside got nice and crispy, but the inside texture remained largely undisturbed. You might think that this is blasphemy, but we were very happy with how it turned out. The contrast b/w the texure of the surface and the inside was really nice.

[Vadouvan]

Thanks Mr Gordon.

No it isnt blasphemey, I do it all the time.

The pan just has to be superhot and you have to do it quick.

the cure will also give it a darker color since residual sugar will caramelize.

[DivineMsN]

I got some at Wegman's and BBQ'd it with a soy/brown sugar glaze and it was yummy

[Alex]

Yesterday was the last delivery day of the season to our local supermarket. We rubbed it with olive oil and baked it at 200F but w/o Vadouvan's cure, which we used last week (twice!) and loved. We finished it with fleur de sel and French walnut oil. The sides were buttered boiled redskins and roasted local asparagus with truffle oil. The wine was a young French red Burgundy. Good, good stuff.

[orion]

There was Copper River sockeye at the terminal market yesterday for $12.99/lb. (The fishmonger closest to Arch St, by Metro and Fair Foods) I was a little confused, since I thought the season ended a month ago, and prices are usually twice that, but I guess both can be attributed to the fact that the fish must have been frozen for a month? Or is there another explanation?

I'm not a huge salmon lover, but this being the first time I've seen CR salmon in Philly, I picked some up and used Vadouvan's now famous method (for king salmon, I know) and it was indeed the best salmon I've tasted in my limited experience, with the creaminess and nuance of flavor mentioned by others.

Vadouvan, since you explicitly specified King salmon for the slow-roast technique b/c of its higher fat content...is there an alternative treatment you prefer for Sockeye?

(Incidently, hello everyone, I've been lurking since the Maraschino discussion last summer and was finally lured out of the shadows by my questions above...)

[Vadouvan]

Vadouvan, since you explicitly specified King salmon for the slow-roast technique b/c of its higher fat content...is there an alternative treatment you prefer for Sockeye?

I personally never cook sockeye salmon , I find it too dry because of it's low fat content.

it dries out quickly and just doesnt have that umamilicious taste of king or even scottish/atlantic.

I have done it Cured/slow roast, grilled, pan roasted, misoyaki, teriyaki, shabu shabu.

It's just dry..........

HOWEVER....There are two dishes in my bag-o-tricks that I use sockeye for.

The fish aint the main attraction though.

Both take advantage of its lovely bright orange color.

1. I cure it with the "aforementioned cure", rinse and dry it in the fridge uncovered for 1 day.

(requires a monk-ishly clean refrigerator)

I then slice it superthin about as wide as a sheet of pasta and use it to wrap a salmon tartare

made with king salmon, lemon oil, yuzu......so it looks like a canelloni after you trim the edges.

It is served with a fennel salad and granny smith apple chips.

2. I cure it with "ze cure" plus fennel seeds and then confit in duck fat at 62C for 12 minute per

4oz.

It is served with a Crisp pork belly, sauerkraut spatzle and long pepper jus and a fried quail

egg on top of ze fish.

A bit ambitious for the home cook ....... but quite tasty indeed.

[orion]

Thanks Vadouvan...

I was pretty shocked at how not dry the Sockeye was with the slow-roast method actually. I'm going to have to try with wild King salmon now.

Those two techniques you described are very intriguing, but realistically unlikely for someone of my limited skills and ambition. (And my refrigerator is far, far from monkishly clean.) My anal nature appreciates your explicit instructions though, and the "salmon tartare canneloni" especially sounds pretty bangin'.

[Diann]

I have done it Cured/slow roast, grilled, pan roasted, misoyaki, teriyaki, shabu shabu.

It's just dry..........  

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Shabu-shabu salmon: I'm picturing superthin slices of salmon, cooked in dashi. Can you do that? Does the fish hold up? (I mean, wouldn't the fish fall apart while you swished it?) My initial reaction was "yuck! boiled fish" but then I guess it's kinda like poaching.

[Vadouvan]

Shabu-shabu salmon: I'm picturing superthin slices of salmon, cooked in dashi. Can you do that? Does the fish hold up? (I mean, wouldn't the fish fall apart while you swished it?) My initial reaction was "yuck! boiled fish" but then I guess it's kinda like poaching.

Tsk...tsk.....Diann

You know me better than that......

The Salmon is put in a shallow bowl.

Sudachi lime is grated on top, sesame seeds, sansho and hijiki.

HOT dashi is poured over lightly.

Bring the bowl to your face as the japanese do and eat it.

[dagordon]

Wegmans has fresh Alaskan King for $20/pound. It's beautiful, and delicious.

OK, I'm going to stop posting about Wegmans for a while. If Jamon Iberico de Bellota suddenly shows up at the Cherry Hill store, you won't hear it from me.