Looking for some American Chinese recipes

[jo-mel]

Mea culpa! Mea culpa! Mea maxima culpa! I am one of the guilty ones who perpetrated this kind of slop shock on our naive, innocent, and unsuspecting gweilo clientele. I did irreparable damage to their taste buds and their perceptions of what is reality in "Chinese" food. May heaven forgive me. I am not worthy.

"Our client, who doth have gelt,

Here be thine Chow mein....

(Proffer me no questions,

But the veggies did not wilt),

Thou hast the money

And I have the wok

In the name of the celery,  the cabbage and the holy sprout.

Ben - That is funny!

I'd like to know, tho ------after being exposed to all that stuff in my early years, HOW did I get beyond it to where I am today?

[hzrt8w]

I'd like to know, tho ------after being exposed to all  that stuff in my early years, HOW did I get beyond it to where I am today?

←

So... what exactly triggered that? Was it the time you read the character

三

on a Chinese menu in a restaurant?

What helped you to distinguish the American Chinese dishes from the Chinese Chinese dishes? Was it those trips you started making in China?

How can one tell the difference if haven't been to that part of the world? There aren't too many TV programs on real Chinese food.

[Dejah]

Tsk ! Tsk ! Tsk !

Being from the "Bronx" & "Brooklyn"

The "ONLY" Pork or Chicken or Shrimp being served in this type of dish was never mixed into the Sautéed Vegetable Mixture that rarely included the Sliced Mushroom Pieces (cheapest canned) reserved for only dishes featuring Mushrooms. Canned Waterchestnuts were a must item.

The Veggies were placed on the bottom of the serving plate, platter or metal covered bowl then garnished with Julienned Chicken, or Julienned Barbecued Pork Slices or Spit Shrimps that covered the top of the Veggies and appeared nice so customers could be sure that they received what they ordered.

The customers were expected to mix the Veggies together with the topping of whatever and then after plating mix again with the crispy chow mein noodles often with added soy sauce and a dash of hot mustard.

Irwin

←

Tsk! Tsk! Tsk! Only in Brooklyn, you say... Never on the prairies, I say.

Mustard? Hmmm, chili sauce maybe...

[wesza]

Tsk ! Tsk ! Tsk !

Being from the "Bronx" & "Brooklyn"

The "ONLY" Pork or Chicken or Shrimp being served in this type of dish was never mixed into the Sautéed Vegetable Mixture that rarely included the Sliced Mushroom Pieces (cheapest canned) reserved for only dishes featuring Mushrooms. Canned Waterchestnuts were a must item.

The Veggies were placed on the bottom of the serving plate, platter or metal covered bowl then garnished with Julienned Chicken, or Julienned Barbecued Pork Slices or Spit Shrimps that covered the top of the Veggies and appeared nice so customers could be sure that they received what they ordered.

The customers were expected to mix the Veggies together with the topping of whatever and then after plating mix again with the crispy chow mein noodles often with added soy sauce and a dash of hot mustard.

Irwin

←

Tsk! Tsk! Tsk! Only in Brooklyn, you say... Never on the prairies, I say

Mustard? Hmmm, chili sauce maybe...

Dejah:

The only codiments offered in East Coast USA Chinese Restaurants traditionally were:

Soy Sauce in a Oil/Vinegar type glass container and a small dish or container of Hot Mustard Sauce. It would be possible to request "Tabasco" or "Ketchup" since most places also offered some American Foods.

The strangest thing was that the Soy Sauce was often called by many diners for some weird reason, "Pigeons Blood". My mother refused to call it anything but Soyu.

Irwin

←

[prasantrin]

Tsk ! Tsk ! Tsk !

Being from the "Bronx" & "Brooklyn"

The "ONLY" Pork or Chicken or Shrimp being served in this type of dish was never mixed into the Sautéed Vegetable Mixture that rarely included the Sliced Mushroom Pieces (cheapest canned) reserved for only dishes featuring Mushrooms. Canned Waterchestnuts were a must item.

The Veggies were placed on the bottom of the serving plate, platter or metal covered bowl then garnished with Julienned Chicken, or Julienned Barbecued Pork Slices or Spit Shrimps that covered the top of the Veggies and appeared nice so customers could be sure that they received what they ordered.

The customers were expected to mix the Veggies together with the topping of whatever and then after plating mix again with the crispy chow mein noodles often with added soy sauce and a dash of hot mustard.

Irwin

←

Tsk! Tsk! Tsk! Only in Brooklyn, you say... Never on the prairies, I say.

Mustard? Hmmm, chili sauce maybe...

←

Some "Chinese" restaurants in the prairies use that crappy fake chicken or pork meat in their "chow mein" (I can think of two off-hand, one in Winnipeg and one in Saskatoon). But of course, in true prairie-style it's mixed in with all the other stuff.

[hzrt8w]

The only codiments offered in East Coast USA Chinese Restaurants traditionally were:

Soy Sauce in a Oil/Vinegar type glass container and a small dish or container of Hot Mustard Sauce. It would be possible to request "Tabasco" or "Ketchup" since most places also offered some American Foods.

[...]

←

In Hong Kong, the typical condiment brought out by wait staff during dim sum lunch time is a "dual" of hot mustard and chili hot sauce (yellow and red).

In quite a few New York / California American-Chinese restaurants, the wait staff would bring out a small condiment dish with the yellow and red on it for your fried egg-roll/wonton appetizers. The yellow is hot mustard all right. The red color is... ketchup.

[Pan]

[...]What helped you to distinguish the American Chinese dishes from the Chinese Chinese dishes?  Was it those trips you started making in China?

How can one tell the difference if haven't been to that part of the world?  There aren't too many TV programs on real Chinese food.

←

I can't speak for Joanne, but there were already Chinese restaurants in Manhattan that served more "authentic" fare than American-style chow mein/chop suey in the early 70s, and I presume at least somewhat earlier. So it really depended on when you were living where.

[jo-mel]

I'd like to know, tho ------after being exposed to all  that stuff in my early years, HOW did I get beyond it to where I am today?

←

So... what exactly triggered that? Was it the time you read the character

三

on a Chinese menu in a restaurant?

What helped you to distinguish the American Chinese dishes from the Chinese Chinese dishes? Was it those trips you started making in China?

How can one tell the difference if haven't been to that part of the world? There aren't too many TV programs on real Chinese food.

←

Xiao Leung, -- I bow in awe at your memory!

I really can't pinpoint the exact beginning. Was it the red mandarin pajamas my Mother made ---- or the fact that I always wanted long braids like the pictures, in books, of little Chinese girls?

As a new nurse in NYC, a former patient invited a couple of us to his restaurant in NYC's Chinatown - on Doyer St. (?1954?) No menu, just Chinese characters on the wall, but the owner chose for us. I wish I could remember what it was, but it was not chop suey -- and I was intrigued. Then a Chinese friend of my DH, who knew I was interested, invited me to a banquet in a restaurant uptown NYC. Up the stairs, round tables, all Chinese, and not a fork in sight and a banquet that opened my eyes. Everyone loved the Peking Duck, of course, but it was the other dishes that fascinated me. One was Chinese Cabbage in Cream Sauce. Such a subtle taste -- so elegant, so 'unChinese', but I was completely hooked. So I bought my first cookbook and started on my self-teaching course. My cookbooks became my teachers and my family my testees. Lots of mistakes, but what a fun time learning, and practicing, and my visits to Chinese stores! I was absolutely caught!

The "三" led me to the language, and the trips to China -- and the culture / music / poetry / history. I was totally caught!

The trips to China just confirmed what I was learning from all those great books ----the differences between the Westernized dishes and traditional regional cooking --- and the range of cooking beyond stir/fries.

And all started by a simple dish of Creamed Napa Cabbage!!

[hzrt8w]

The trips to China just confirmed what I was learning from all those great books ----the differences between the Westernized dishes and traditional regional cooking --- and the range of cooking beyond stir/fries.

And all started by a simple dish of Creamed Napa Cabbage!!

←

That's a fasinating story, jo-mel. Tell us more when you have time. I wish I could do the same on other cultures. I found it particularly hard to learn from just reading cookbooks. Most of the cookbooks don't provide pictures. I cannot tell what the finished dish is supposed to look like, let alone what it tastes like.

Did you see dried shrimp or dried ham in the Creamed Napa Cabbage? That's the common way of cooking napa cabbage, but it is typically not found in American-Chinese restaurants.

[jo-mel]

The trips to China just confirmed what I was learning from all those great books ----the differences between the Westernized dishes and traditional regional cooking --- and the range of cooking beyond stir/fries.

And all started by a simple dish of Creamed Napa Cabbage!!

←

That's a fasinating story, jo-mel. Tell us more when you have time. I wish I could do the same on other cultures. I found it particularly hard to learn from just reading cookbooks. Most of the cookbooks don't provide pictures. I cannot tell what the finished dish is supposed to look like, let alone what it tastes like.

Did you see dried shrimp or dried ham in the Creamed Napa Cabbage? That's the common way of cooking napa cabbage, but it is typically not found in American-Chinese restaurants.

←

When I've had it in restaurants, it had ham, but those times were either specially ordered, or in special settings -- not on menus.

The recipes without the ham seem geared to vegetarian foods. I don't think I've ever seen a recipe with dried shrimp. Usually it is with ham, and since the original dish probably used Jinhua ham, I use a Virginia or Smithville ham when I make it. But, I have been known to use plain boiled ham in a pinch. Since I always have dried shrimp on hand, I will try it.

In my classes, I use both to show the difference in intensity of the hams. Some people don't want to bother looking for a good ham just for a cabbage dish. -"----- as if you could call that 'just a cabbage dish'!!!!

[wesza]

The only condiments offered in East Coast USA Chinese Restaurants traditionally were:

Soy Sauce in a Oil/Vinegar type glass container and a small dish or container of Hot Mustard Sauce. It would be possible to request "Tabasco" or "Ketchup" since most places also offered some American Foods.

[...]

←

In Hong Kong, the typical condiment brought out by wait staff during dim sum lunch time is a "dual" of hot mustard and chili hot sauce (yellow and red).

In quite a few New York / California American-Chinese restaurants, the wait staff would bring out a small condiment dish with the yellow and red on it for your fried egg-roll/wonton appetizers. The yellow is hot mustard all right. The red color is... ketchup.

←

Ah Leung:

You are correct about the Red (Chili) & Yellow (Hot Mustard) being served to customers by the wait staffs in Hong Kong but were you aware that this condiments being offered if used by guests was something provided by the service staff and not provided by the restaurant for customers. If customers choose to use the condiment it is expected by them to ad a additional small salutation in cash in addition to the customary service charge.

When I visited the States from Hong Kong with my kids the first time we ordered "Roast Pork" on the west coast it was served with sesame seeds, red (Ketchup) and Yellow (Mustard) for dipping they were bewildered about being served Ketchup anything at a Chinese Restaurant and confused about the sesame seeds but really bewildered about their first time experience with canned bean sprouts. This was in Palm Springs, Ca.

They also thought that the "Lo Mein" served was actually Fettuccine Pasta.

What proved to have the biggest effect was when my children began commenting about the food together in Hong Kong Cantonese something they did regularly at home had a real effect with the Chinese Staff at the Restaurant who apparently had never heard any American kids speak Chinese previously. They quickly learned that by speaking respectfully in Cantonese at Restaurants it generally resulted in treats.

Irwin

Edited April 29, 2006 by wesza (log)

[hzrt8w]

[...] were you aware that this condiments being offered if used by guests was something provided by the service staff and not provided by the restaurant for customers. If customers choose to use the condiment it is expected by them to ad a additional small salutation in cash in addition to the customary service charge.

[...]

What proved to have the biggest effect was when my children began commenting about the food together in Hong Kong Cantonese something they did regularly at home had a real effect with the Chinese Staff at the Restaurant who apparently had never heard any American kids speak Chinese previously. They quickly learned that by speaking respectfully in Cantonese at Restaurants it generally resulted in treats.

←

Irwin: Thanks for filling in the history behind something that I have always taken for granted growing up. At the 60's/70's (back then there wasn't such customary 10% service charge in the food service industry) it was Red hot chili sauce and Yellow mustard bidding for waitstaff tips. Later it extended to, especially in non-Cantonese eateries, roasted peanuts, pickled mustard greens, pickled leek/garlic, etc..

I had only an one-time encounter having dim sum in a restaurant in San Diego and I saw a thirty-something caucasian lady conversing with the owner in fluent Cantonese. It was just so amazing and I couldn't believe my eyes. Later I learned that this lady grew up in Hong Kong and just moved back to the USA following her spouse. I still have a hard time to get used to having a blue-eye, blond hair lady in America speaking to me fluently in my native tongue, with slang and all...

[wesza]

[...] were you aware that this condiments being offered if used by guests was something provided by the service staff and not provided by the restaurant for customers. If customers choose to use the condiment it is expected by them to ad a additional small salutation in cash in addition to the customary service charge.

[...]

What proved to have the biggest effect was when my children began commenting about the food together in Hong Kong Cantonese something they did regularly at home had a real effect with the Chinese Staff at the Restaurant who apparently had never heard any American kids speak Chinese previously. They quickly learned that by speaking respectfully in Cantonese at Restaurants it generally resulted in treats.

←

Irwin: Thanks for filling in the history behind something that I have always taken for granted growing up. At the 60's/70's (back then there wasn't such customary 10% service charge in the food service industry) it was Red hot chili sauce and Yellow mustard bidding for waitstaff tips. Later it extended to, especially in non-Cantonese eateries, roasted peanuts, pickled mustard greens, pickled leek/garlic, etc..

I had only an one-time encounter having dim sum in a restaurant in San Diego and I saw a thirty-something caucasian lady conversing with the owner in fluent Cantonese. It was just so amazing and I couldn't believe my eyes. Later I learned that this lady grew up in Hong Kong and just moved back to the USA following her spouse. I still have a hard time to get used to having a blue-eye, blond hair lady in America speaking to me fluently in my native tongue, with slang and all...

←

Ah Leung:

Just imagine how it would be coming across 3 blond, blue eyed kids between 8 and 4 years old all familiar with Toysan speaking Cantonese between themselves since Daddy couldn't understand in a matter of fact way in a Chinese Restaurant.

Since it was close to Chinese New Years we decided to put a stop to them since they were encouraging getting Lia-see, acting innocently when receiving "Red Envelopes". They really enjoyed acting as Hosts in our Restaurants during New Years conversing very respectfully in Chinese with customers and enjoying all the gifts but in Hong Kong it was acceptable, even encouraged but in the States it was definitely unusual.

We were not part of a company or government employees so always resided in places occupied by Chinese and Europeans and Americans so our children adapted to speaking Chinese quite young and attended multi-cultural schools initially. My wife learned Cantonese at New Asia Yale College but since my employees were both Cantonese and Shanghai speaking and my lack of aptitude I never learned to speak.

I actually gave up trying to speak any Chinese after attempting several times to ask a server for the check saying "Foki Mai Ton" that sounded in Cantonese like asking for a "Turkey to Lay a Egg".

Irwin (I did get expert in "Eating")