Baking 101

[Tweety69bird]

Thermometers...which do you use?  I am slightly blistered from trying to dip the meat thermometer in the sugar and waiting for it to spin up. 

Do you use digital?  Use a pot clip to leave the thermometer in the pot?  I saw one with an alarm for every candy stage and a one with a wired probe like I might go measuring radiation.

Mike

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I use a $3 candy thermometer from my friendly Canadian Tire, and I buy them 2 at a time, since they break/crack easily enough and I like to have an extra one on hand. I calibrate them before I use them in boiling water, and they are easy to read. Also, I just bought a whisk from Williams Sonoma that has a thermometer in it, so that will make certain tasks easier once I receive it.

[miladyinsanity]

Does the springback test work for sponge cakes?

I did the skewer one and it was clean, so I double-checked with the springback test. And it did spring, so I took it out of the oven to let it cool.

But now, after cooling and slicing and tasting, I think I underbaked it.

If you need the recipe, it's 4 egg yolks beaten with 2 tablespoons of boiling water and half a cup of caster sugar, then fold in half a cup of selfraising flour and 2 tablespoons of milk and a bit of vanilla extract. I baked it for 23 minutes (the recipe said about 20) at 160C in a loaf pan.

Edited March 17, 2006 by miladyinsanity (log)

[Sugarella]

Does the springback test work for sponge cakes?

I did the skewer one and it was clean, so I double-checked with the springback test. And it did spring, so I took it out of the oven to let it cool.

But now, after cooling and slicing and tasting, I think I underbaked it.

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Why do you say it's underbaked? Is it raw? Soft and gooey? Taste funny?

The tester coming out clean means it's done, provided you used the tester appropriately. Please refer to page 1 of this thread for info about testing for a cake being done.

[miladyinsanity]

Why do you say it's underbaked? Is it raw? Soft and gooey? Taste funny?

The tester coming out clean means it's done, provided you used the tester appropriately. Please refer to page 1 of this thread for info about testing for a cake being done.

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It's not raw, soft and gooey or tastes funny.

And I do know how to use the tester. What you described is the way my mom taught me, and I've been testing and taking cakes out of the oven for her for years without a hitch.

It's just that it sank, becoming wrinkly on top (I did leave it in the pan to cool as the instructions said, but it sank before I took it out of the pan).

[NYC Mike]

I have read many a Patrick or Ling post that is a result of pulling something amazing out of the freezer.

Learning to bake has left me with quite a few extra sweets laying around.

Can someone help with me with basic freezing guidelines?

Thanks,

-Mike

[maui420]

1.is there a big difference in using softened butter vs melted butter in terms of making chocolate chip cookies, basic cakes, and other things. well in what cases would it make a difference?

2.since ive been baking, i never shift the dry ingredients. when i combine all the dry ingredients, i take a whisk and whisk the bowl to make sure all the dry ingredients are dispersed equally. should i shift?

3.after i bake a cake, is it better to leave it at room temp to cool, or can i place the cake in the fridge before i ice?

4...

[miladyinsanity]

1.is there a big difference in using softened butter vs melted butter in terms of making chocolate chip cookies, basic cakes, and other things. well in what cases would it make a difference?

I'm no expert, but yes, there would be, assuming that by softened butter, you mean the creaming method. Most cakes that has butter usually require it to be creamed.

Cookies wise... I might very very wrong, but I think cookies that use the creaming method tend to be have more of a crunch than cookies that don't.

[Wendy DeBord]

Anyone have experience with Pilsbury flour?

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I've used Pillsbury flour (at home)............hum this is a somewhat of a hard question to answer.......... I think it's fine, good flour. I've used it making biscuits and a variety of items.

Flour varies somewhat with-in each individual brand, depending upon the time of year or the type of wheat their mixing/using. I'm by no means a flour expert!!! I'm a pastry chef not a bread baker so I rarely see big effects in flours like bread bakers do. Other then the obvious differences in different types of flour between cake, pastry, all purpose and bread flours.

Soooooo, sometimes I see differences in my baked goods from one brand of flour to another similar type of flour but it's pretty rare. Usually, it's not noticable unless I'm tasting the items side by side. I can detect a difference between bleached and unbleached, definately. But I've yet to see any huge differences in one brand of bleached all-purpose to another brand of all-purpose or unbleached to unbleached, etc...

You can split hairs on all your ingredient choices, if you want. You can use the best ingredients available for everything you make. BUT personally, I think the biggest differences your going to see is, in how well you bake. Hitting each step correctly in each method is going to have the biggest effect on the success of your finished product when your a beginning baker.

Personally I think the secret to a great biscuit is your technique and your recipe.....with-out both being right on your won't get the best results. Then tweaking the recipe with the ingredients.......well that's definately past 101.

[Wendy DeBord]

Thermometers...which do you use?  I am slightly blistered from trying to dip the meat thermometer in the sugar and waiting for it to spin up. 

Do you use digital?  Use a pot clip to leave the thermometer in the pot?  I saw one with an alarm for every candy stage and a one with a wired probe like I might go measuring radiation.

Mike

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You might want to do a search on the topic of thermometers, you'll find a fair amount of discussion on them here if your looking for which brand to buy. I think CI did a test of brands, you might find that info. on the internet.

I've personally gone thru a fair amount of thermometers over the years. They all break eventually, imo. I choose lower end/lower price thermometers because I find the accuracy to be equal to higher end thermo.s' and it's not as painful to replace them as they break or get ruined.

First thing you need to know is that meat thermometers don't go high enough for most sugar work. Meat thermo.'s go up to 220F and sugar thermo.'s go up to 400F. Meat thermometers don't have clips to secure them to pots, sugar/candy thermo.'s do.

I like the newer types with probes that sound an alarm when you've hit the right temp. or time but I also own the cheapy candy thermometers you can buy at the grocery stores.

[Wendy DeBord]

Does the springback test work for sponge cakes?

I did the skewer one and it was clean, so I double-checked with the springback test. And it did spring, so I took it out of the oven to let it cool.

But now, after cooling and slicing and tasting, I think I underbaked it.

If you need the recipe, it's 4 egg yolks beaten with 2 tablespoons of boiling water and half a cup of caster sugar, then fold in half a cup of selfraising flour and 2 tablespoons of milk and a bit of vanilla extract. I baked it for 23 minutes (the recipe said about 20) at 160C in a loaf pan.

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Yes, the spring test should work fine for a sponge cake.

Theres alot of good and bad recipes for sponge cakes...........and most importantly you need to know and hit proper method to make a good sponge cake.

Your recipe doesn't look familar to me. I haven't baked a sponge cake in a couple months...........so I have to think back. I can't recall off the top of my head a sponge cake recipe that incorporates water into your whipped yolks, seems to me that would deflate your whipping. Also most sponge cakes don't add leaveners (which you get in your self-raising flour). Instead I think you were making a chiffon cake.

A word of advice, if you see a recipe calling for self-raising flour run...........don't use recipes that involve it! You should be adding leaveners according to what you making. You can't be certain that the leaveners in the bag of self-rising flour is distributed perfectly or that things haven't settled in the bag as it goes thru handling.

O.k. so some recipes were created using self-rising flour.........I personally still run from them. That isn't accurate enough for me. Nor am I too dumb or unskilled that I need someone mixing my leaveners into my flour.

[Wendy DeBord]

Learning to bake has left me with quite a few extra sweets laying around.

Can someone help with me with basic freezing guidelines? 

Thanks,

-Mike

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Basic guidelines.......the most basic, you can freeze most baked goods successfully. Wrap them well in plastic wrap and insert them into a ziplock baggie or wrap foil around the plastic so it doesn't come off in the freezer.

Going past basic.........some items batter can be frozen and you can bake the item fresh as needed. Cookies are probably the most often frozen in their raw state. But you can freeze unbaked muffins, scones, biscuits.........and some other things I can't think of at this moment. Hopefully others will chime in with what they sucessfull freeze raw.

How long you can successfully freeze something depends upon how well you wrapped it and how good your freezer is. I often go past the time limits stated on recipes. I've held frozen raw cookie dough for months (like 3 or 4) with-out problems. I've held frozen danish dough for similar lengths. Look for frost bite and if you see signs of it, you've gone too long. Check for smell too. When in doubt throw it out. Sometimes you can hold baked goods for half a year.........it all depends.........

[Wendy DeBord]

1.is there a big difference in using softened butter vs melted butter in terms of making chocolate chip cookies, basic cakes, and other things. well in what cases would it make a difference?

2.since ive been baking, i never shift the dry ingredients. when i combine all the dry ingredients, i take a whisk and whisk the bowl to make sure all the dry ingredients are dispersed equally. should i shift?

3.after i bake a cake, is it better to leave it at room temp to cool, or can i place the cake in the fridge before i ice?

4...

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answers:

1. Yes, you can get a big difference between using melted or softened butter in any/ almost every recipe. When you mix together a cookie or cake often you need to whip air into it and that effects volume and texture. If your butter is melted it won't take whipped air. We intentionally use melted butter and not soft in other recipes. So stick to which ever your recipe calls for.

2. Sifting ingredients was begun years ago when the quality of our ingredients weren't as good as they are now. So you can get away with not sifting in many recipes. Personally, I think it's added to too many recipes unneccessarily. BUT occasionally it will be important and it will strongly effect your recipe, so you can't ignore sifting all the time. Theres a huge difference in measuring items that have or have not been sifted, so you might be measuring too much of an item if you didn't sift it when the recipe told you to.

3. When you refridgerate a cake it changes it's texture. Usually making the item firmer. Sometimes the item goes back to it's fresh baked texture after it comes up to room temp. and sometimes it doesn't. A firmer cake is far easier to frost then a delicate freshly baked cake. But a fresh baked butter cake will not taste the same after it's been refridgerated..........so it depends. AND if your icing/frosting is stiff or light and easy to spread then that effects which way you need your cake to be. Some cake recipes tell you to freeze the still hot cake. Sooooo there's not one answer to this question. Typcially, chilling in the cooler won't hurt your product, even if it isn't ideal for that baked good.

[miladyinsanity]

Does the springback test work for sponge cakes?

I did the skewer one and it was clean, so I double-checked with the springback test. And it did spring, so I took it out of the oven to let it cool.

But now, after cooling and slicing and tasting, I think I underbaked it.

If you need the recipe, it's 4 egg yolks beaten with 2 tablespoons of boiling water and half a cup of caster sugar, then fold in half a cup of selfraising flour and 2 tablespoons of milk and a bit of vanilla extract. I baked it for 23 minutes (the recipe said about 20) at 160C in a loaf pan.

←

Yes, the spring test should work fine for a sponge cake.

Theres alot of good and bad recipes for sponge cakes...........and most importantly you need to know and hit proper method to make a good sponge cake.

Your recipe doesn't look familar to me. I haven't baked a sponge cake in a couple months...........so I have to think back. I can't recall off the top of my head a sponge cake recipe that incorporates water into your whipped yolks, seems to me that would deflate your whipping. Also most sponge cakes don't add leaveners (which you get in your self-raising flour). Instead I think you were making a chiffon cake.

A word of advice, if you see a recipe calling for self-raising flour run...........don't use recipes that involve it! You should be adding leaveners according to what you making. You can't be certain that the leaveners in the bag of self-rising flour is distributed perfectly or that things haven't settled in the bag as it goes thru handling.

O.k. so some recipes were created using self-rising flour.........I personally still run from them. That isn't accurate enough for me. Nor am I too dumb or unskilled that I need someone mixing my leaveners into my flour.

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See, I usually don't do recipes with self-raising flour either--don't keep it at home, and for this recipe I'd to go look for a site that offers proportions to mix your own.

But I stumbled on the recipe here, and I had egg yolks to use up.

Let me add that it didn't sink and become a pancake. It was better than edible, and recognizable as a sponge cake. Is it possible, that like a chiffon, that it had to cool WHILE clinging to the pan so that it wouldn't sink?

I didn't follow the instructions to line with parchment, as I'd just run out. I just buttered and floured the non-stick pan.

Thanks Wendy.

[Wendy DeBord]

Let me add that it didn't sink and become a pancake. It was better than edible, and recognizable as a sponge cake. Is it possible, that like a chiffon, that it had to cool WHILE clinging to the pan so that it wouldn't sink?

I didn't follow the instructions to line with parchment, as I'd just run out. I just buttered and floured the non-stick pan.

Thanks Wendy.

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Ahhhh, a couple things I see now that you wrote that.

1. Don't use a non-stick pan for baking a sponge cake. And don't butter and flour the pan either. (you'd have been better to change pans if you didn't have any parchement and choose a pan you could de-pan it from.......like a two piece ring mold.....)

2. It needs to cling to the sides of the pan as it rises in the oven and while it cools.

[SweetSide]

Anyone have experience with Pilsbury flour?

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......

Soooooo, sometimes I see differences in my baked goods from one brand of flour to another similar type of flour but it's pretty rare. Usually, it's not noticable unless I'm tasting the items side by side. I can detect a difference between bleached and unbleached, definately....

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Wendy, I've always been curious about that. I have some recipes that specifically call for bleached or unbleached. I have one that calls for a portion of each (I ignored that one because I don't keep both bleached and unbleached on hand for AP). What are the differences that you see simply based on the bleaching?

Thanks!

[Beanie]

Learning to bake has left me with quite a few extra sweets laying around.

Can someone help with me with basic freezing guidelines? 

Thanks,

-Mike

←

Basic guidelines.......the most basic, you can freeze most baked goods successfully. Wrap them well in plastic wrap and insert them into a ziplock baggie or wrap foil around the plastic so it doesn't come off in the freezer.

Going past basic.........some items batter can be frozen and you can bake the item fresh as needed. Cookies are probably the most often frozen in their raw state. But you can freeze unbaked muffins, scones, biscuits.........and some other things I can't think of at this moment. Hopefully others will chime in with what they sucessfull freeze raw.

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Double crust apple pies (with pre-cooked filling), discussed at length on a few threads that I can't seem to locate.

[Wendy DeBord]

I think unbleached flour gives cakes/items more taste. The bleaching removes some of the taste of the wheat. Also items with non-bleached flour tend to be heavier/denser.

Sometimes that's a good thing and sometimes it's not a good thing for the item your baking. It's alot of personal preference.....

[Lindacakes]

Regarding sifting -- if a recipe calls for it, you should do it. Sifted flour is more aerated that whisked flour. Beware, though, that there's a difference between 1 cup of flour, sifted (measured and then sifted) and 1 cup of sifted flour (sifted and then measured).

I once took a class with Carole Walter and she did a demo of measuring differences -- dipping the cup into the flour gives you more flour than spooning the flour into the cup. Often the author of the cookbook will say in the preface which method was used, and that's the one you should use. I tend to stick with spooning, because I'm not likely to err on the side of heaviness.

Whisking dry ingredients together to mix them is good.

Maida Heatter is a nut for sifting, and I've started to sift everything -- sugar, brown sugar, confectioner's sugar when I transfer it from paper bag to plastic bin. I don't sift the flour, it's going to settle back. Sifting the sugar products keeps weird lumps out of them. Sifted brown sugar is gorgeous.

I would not cool a cake in the fridge, it will effect the moisture content of the cake.

I just tried freezing baked goods this Christmas, because of the calendar and when I was going to visit my parents. I was very unhappy with the results. I layered each baked cookie with waxed paper, wrapped in foil, and then bagged. Defrosted in the wrappings. Cookies were ruined -- not crisp enough, although no one had a problem eating them.

I also have the clip on thermometer for candy and the KA instant read fold-in-half thermometer. Showed up in my Christmas stocking, and boy, is that thing cool. And I have the probe thingy with the magnetic timer that adheres to the oven door. I like all of them for different things.

Baking would be about half as fun without the cool tools.

[miladyinsanity]

Thanks Wendy for your help!

[David J.]

I'm only a moderately experienced baker, but I am a pretty experienced learner. What I try do when delving into some new area is to find someone who has already figured out the basic techniques and knows how to explain them well.

Baking is mostly about technique. Many years ago I tried making a cake with melted butter and discovered that even with good ingredients it was one approach that wasn't going to work .

A cake recipe might simply say "Cream butter and sugar", and assume that you know how to do it. Two people can start with the same ingredients and end up with very different results if they have different ideas of what that means. I think this is what makes baking seem so mysterious and frought with peril.

I just borrowed Alton Brown's "I'm Just Here for More Food" from the library and I have to say that he has the best explanation of mixing techniques I have read to date. When I learn something I want to know the how and why, and Alton does a pretty good job of explaining just what is going on and what you are trying to achieve.

For example he explains that the purpose of creaming is not to soften the butter, but rather to use the sugar to rip into the butter and create billions and billions of micro air bubbles. The sugar cuts holes into the butter which then seal over creating the tiny bubbles. That means you have to have the butter at the correct temperature and gradually feed in the sugar for best results. The idea is to rub the sugar into the butter which is best done with a flat blade beater that can push the butter into the side of the bowl and scrape the sugar across it. Hand mixers with thin beaters throw stuff around, but don't do a very good job of scraping the sugar into the butter. He states that you should be able to get the butter to expand about a third if you do it right, and he explains when to stop. Leaveners then inflate those tiny bubbles, but they don't create them. So if you don't the creaming right you won't get the results you want. I'm going to pay attention to his instructions for my next cake and see if that improves my results. I've been using butter right out of the fridge and that probably hurts. He also adds something interesting. Instead of adding one whole egg at a time he suggests beating them to mix the yolk and white prior to adding it to the fat. The reasoning is that the water in the whites won't mix with the fat until it is mixed with the yolk and that will help the batter come together much quicker.

If you are just starting to bake I'd suggest picking one technique at a time to study, and then practice it until you feel confident. There are hundreds of products you can make but there are only a few techniques you need to do so.

[kitwilliams]

Regarding sifting -- if a recipe calls for it, you should do it.  Sifted flour is more aerated that whisked flour.  Beware, though, that there's a difference between 1 cup of flour, sifted (measured and then sifted) and 1 cup of sifted flour (sifted and then measured).

I once took a class with Carole Walter and she did a demo of measuring differences -- dipping the cup into the flour gives you more flour than spooning the flour into the cup.  Often the author of the cookbook will say in the preface which method was used, and that's the one you should use.  I tend to stick with spooning, because I'm not likely to err on the side of heaviness.

Baking would be about half as fun without the cool tools.

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And the best and coolest tool for baking is a KITCHEN SCALE which also resolves the problem of whether your recipe should be a cup of "dip and sweep" or a cup of "sifted" flour. You don't have to guess when weighing. Nothing beats weighing for accuracy and the most accurate form is the metric system. I can't urge people enough to get a kitchen scale, start converting all your recipes for baked goods to weights (metric preferable but ounces and pounds acceptable) and urge your friends who write baking (and cooking) books in the USA to please, please, please put all measurements in metric weights as well as in volume!

I love my scale. I travel with it. And I am in no way affiliated with any manufacturer of kitchen scales!

[Sugarella]

And the best and coolest tool for baking is a KITCHEN SCALE which also resolves the problem of whether your recipe should be a cup of "dip and sweep" or a cup of "sifted" flour.  You don't have to guess when weighing.  Nothing beats weighing for accuracy and the most accurate form is the metric system.  I can't urge people enough to get a kitchen scale, start converting all your recipes for baked goods to weights (metric preferable but ounces and pounds acceptable) and urge your friends who write baking (and cooking) books in the USA to please, please, please put all measurements in metric weights as well as in volume!

I love my scale.  I travel with it.  And I am in no way affiliated with any manufacturer of kitchen scales! 

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Ditto, but a lot of people can't put out the investment for a scale. Personally, I'd recommend anyone put a scale ahead of a stand mixer on their list of must-haves.

(But DON'T buy one of those cheapo walmart ones or something....a good scale will run you about $130)

Maybe someone should start a thread on scales and recommended brands or where the bargains are......

*****

Question for Wendy or anyone else about the bleached flours though.... did I read somewhere that heavily bleached white flour actually has its proteins broken down by the bleaching process, or am I imagining that??

I personally use unbleached for everything but then I don't make chiffon or sponge cakes very often..... would there be an advantage to using this type of flour for these? Or for anything else for that matter?

[David J.]

And the best and coolest tool for baking

Ditto, but a lot of people can't put out the investment for a scale. Personally, I'd recommend anyone put a scale ahead of a stand mixer on their list of must-haves.

(But DON'T buy one of those cheapo walmart ones or something....a good scale will run you about $130)

Maybe someone should start a thread on scales and recommended brands or where the bargains are......

I have a "My-Weigh 7001DX" which I purchased for a small fraction of $130 and it is an excellet scale. Max capacity is 7000g (15.4 lbs) with accuracy to 1g (0.1 oz), so you can tare up an entire recipie if you want (though the 1 gram accuracy degrades at the higher weights). Also nice is that the weighing modes include pounds, pound:ounces, grams, and kilograms, and it remembers which you used last. That makes using metric or US measures easy. Probably the best thing is that it uses simple AA batteries so you won't have to pay an arm and a leg for replacements. It has a nice flat slimline profile so it isn't likely to get broken as many of the more exotic looking models.

You don't have to choose between a stand mixer and a scale. Get both!

I did a fair amount of research on the web before deciding to purchase this, and I've been very happy with its performance.

[Richard Kilgore]

There are several threads on scales, as well as an eGCI course, the Q&A of which also has a lot of relevant discussion. You can now get a high quality kitchen scale for considerably less than $130. I got a MY Weigh KD600 as a result of the discussions and it has been great. Paula Wolfert got the same one and likes it a lot. It appears the KD-7000 has replaced it, the only difference being the new model apparenty has a beep function of some sort, and it will handle up to 15 lbs instead of 11 lbs. It's still only $44.90 US plus $7.50 for the AC adapter, plus a little for shipping.

eGCI Course: The Kitchen Scale Manifesto

[kitwilliams]

I have the KD-600 as well and it is terrific. Thanks for posting the links for others to check into, Richard, as it is not well known that such reliable, inexpensive scales are available, as prices at all the kitchen supply stores are so outrageous!

And now, let's hope that all the publishers of cook books will see that the baking/cooking public are serious about wanting to see our measurements in weights!!!!!