Baking 101

[SweetSide]

2.  Freezing Egg Whites-  I have used a ton of yolks lately and am wasting the whites.

I read above about this but I have a use/storage question.  Do I continually add egg whites on top of already frozen ones OR do I have multiple containers with dates and number of whites written on the sides.  When I need to use them do I defrost first, please elaborate about the uses for frozen whites?

Thanks!

-Mike

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Don't waste those whites! They keep a long time. I freeze mine in little 1/2 cup containers, 2 whites to a container. Nothing I make needs less than two. Some people freeze them in ice cube trays (I just don't have a spare), one to a cube. Then pop them out and store the egg white cubes in a bag or other container in the freezer.

You can use them for anything that needs whites -- meringue, buttercream, angel food cake, French macarons, coconut macaroons.

If you don't need them -- send them here -- I'm short about a dozen whites at the moment...

Yolks don't keep nearly as well.

[mrbigjas]

2.  Freezing Egg Whites-  I have used a ton of yolks lately and am wasting the whites.

I read above about this but I have a use/storage question.  Do I continually add egg whites on top of already frozen ones OR do I have multiple containers with dates and number of whites written on the sides.  When I need to use them do I defrost first, please elaborate about the uses for frozen whites?

for freezing egg whites, as i use the eggs i separate them directly on to a piece of plastic wrap--gather up the corners and twist tie shut, then freeze. one or two per piece of plastic wrap. when they are frozen, i put them in another plastic bag. to thaw just take as many as you need out and let them sit in the fridge, or for quicker thawing you can put the wrapped bundles in a bowl of water with the faucet dribbling on them.

[Tweety69bird]

One of my new year's resolutions was to learn how to cook.  I've modified it to learn how to bake since the Mrs. is a kick a** cook and sharp objects are not exactly a match made in heaven for me.  Not to mention early/easy successes has bred enthusiasm!  So Chris, thank you for this thread.

Two questions:

1.  Yeast Types and conversion rates-  Active Dry -vs- Compressed -vs- cakes?

           

Are there different quality characteristics for each or are they generally interchangable and is there a straightforward conversion calculation I can use if a recipie only lists quantity for compressed and I have active dry on hand?

2.  Freezing Egg Whites-  I have used a ton of yolks lately and am wasting the whites.

I read above about this but I have a use/storage question.  Do I continually add egg whites on top of already frozen ones OR do I have multiple containers with dates and number of whites written on the sides.  When I need to use them do I defrost first, please elaborate about the uses for frozen whites?

Thanks!

-Mike

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For your yeast question:

Yeast:

3 Kinds. (1-2-3 rule)

Fresh - 1 part – Always keep in the fridge, max 2 weeks.

Dry Active - ½ part

Instant - 1/3 part

As for the whites, I add new whites onto the already frozen ones, because when I am going to use them, it's all of them (as opposed to 2 or 3 at a time), and they aren't in the freezer for a long time, but I date them too. Better safe than sorry.

Edited to add:

Oh, I don't mark the amount of whites in a container, I use weight to measure them out. 30g per white.

Edited March 15, 2006 by Tweety69bird (log)

[Tweety69bird]

Good grief, I'm in too much of a rush to add my reply!

Uses for whites that have been frozen would be for buttercream... um, basically anything that calls for whites with the exception of meringues. I would use fresh whites for meringues.

[NYC Mike]

Thanks all!

Yeast:

3 Kinds. (1-2-3 rule)

Fresh - 1 part – Always keep in the fridge, max 2 weeks.

Dry Active - ½ part

Instant - 1/3 part

So if it calls for 1oz. compressed fresh a 1/2 oz dry active or 1/3 oz instant? That is nice and clean. Any quality difference between types? Any cases where you might prefer one type to another?

Some people freeze them in ice cube trays (I just don't have a spare), one to a cube. Then pop them out and store the egg white cubes in a bag or other container in the freezer.

This seems slick, would there be taste issues with the whites absorbing freezer tastes etc?

Mike

[sanrensho]

I usually collect my freezer whites as they accumulate, around 8-10 eggs' worth before I move onto another bag.

I've got another egg white question. Some of my frozen egg whites come out murky and coagulated when I defrost them. I'd guess this happens with one out of every 5 or 6 egg whites. Freshness isn't an issue as they usually go straight to the freezer after shelling.

I've been throwing out the cloudy egg whites as a precautionary measure, even though I know they aren't "bad." Does anyone else have this problem?

[Tweety69bird]

So if it calls for 1oz. compressed fresh a 1/2 oz dry active or 1/3 oz instant? That is nice and clean.  Any quality difference between types? Any cases where you might prefer one type to another?

Yup, you got it. As for preferrence, fresh would be the first choice, but after that I don't really have a preferrence between instant or dry active.

[SweetSide]

Thanks all!

Some people freeze them in ice cube trays (I just don't have a spare), one to a cube. Then pop them out and store the egg white cubes in a bag or other container in the freezer.

This seems slick, would there be taste issues with the whites absorbing freezer tastes etc?

Mike

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Put the tray itself in a ziplock freezer bag. Or double bag. As they freeze, pop em out and put them in a "collection" container. No, I wouldn't just leave them sitting out there like your ice cubes. Blech.

[SweetSide]

Good grief, I'm in too much of a rush to add my reply!

Uses for whites that have been frozen would be for buttercream... um, basically anything that calls for whites with the exception of meringues. I would use fresh whites for meringues.

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Curiosity -- why the fresh for the meringue. I know there are advantages of using "old" whites for some things and "fresh" for others and not using frozen for some things.

[RuthWells]

Good grief, I'm in too much of a rush to add my reply!

Uses for whites that have been frozen would be for buttercream... um, basically anything that calls for whites with the exception of meringues. I would use fresh whites for meringues.

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Curiosity -- why the fresh for the meringue. I know there are advantages of using "old" whites for some things and "fresh" for others and not using frozen for some things.

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I use frozen whites for meringues all the time with no ill effect -- I'll be interested to hear feedback from everyone on this question.

[Sugarella]

I use frozen whites for meringues all the time with no ill effect -- I'll be interested to hear feedback from everyone on this question.

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I'm very interested that everyone is using frozen whites for meringues.... I previously held some whites in the fridge for a day then tried to make a meringue with them and they just would not whip, even after adding a bunch of cream of tartar. So all this time I've never used whites that weren't fresh out of the shell; looks like I'll have to try this again sometime. Must've had duds that time or something.

[SweetSide]

I use frozen whites for meringues all the time with no ill effect -- I'll be interested to hear feedback from everyone on this question.

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I'm very interested that everyone is using frozen whites for meringues.... I previously held some whites in the fridge for a day then tried to make a meringue with them and they just would not whip, even after adding a bunch of cream of tartar. So all this time I've never used whites that weren't fresh out of the shell; looks like I'll have to try this again sometime. Must've had duds that time or something.

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I'm surprised at this -- perhaps they were somehow contaminated with a trace of fat. Plastic container maybe? Done that ...

I was expecting an answer about FROZEN specifically. In fact, as for the refrigeration, I was taught that eggs fresh from the shell don't whip as well as those that have been hanging out for a day or so. I'd have to go look up the whole science behind it.

[Sugarella]

I'm surprised at this -- perhaps they were somehow contaminated with a trace of fat.  Plastic container maybe?  Done that ... 

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Ok.... I'm an idiot!

(Yes they were in tupperware.)

~ Sugarella, wearing her dunce cap.

Edited to add: For years, YEARS I tell you, I've been throwing out leftover whites since that.

Edited March 16, 2006 by Sugarella (log)

[mrbigjas]

sugarella, i don't know the answer, but i pulled about six egg whites out of the freezer yesterday, defrosted them, added a couple more non-frozen ones, and they whipped up fine for a souffle. but it turned out i thought i made too many, so i added a bunch of sugar to the remainder (i know, real scientific meringue recipe, right?) and kept whipping, and ended up with what sure looked like meringues. of course because i'm not a baker i then let it sit for a little while and it leaked and fell apart, but it looked good before that. and the souffle came out fine too.

[Tweety69bird]

I use frozen whites for meringues all the time with no ill effect -- I'll be interested to hear feedback from everyone on this question.

Just for clarity, I am referring to meringues on pies, not the slow baked meringues. I find that fresh whites whip up nicer, and on the occasions that I've used frozen whites, I've found that they leak. (Like on a lemon meringue pie). Plus, honestly, it's a mental thing also, the thought of eating meringue that was made from frozen whites just doesn't appeal to me very much. At least in a buttercream they're all mixed in, and the same goes for cakes or whatever other uses they will be used for.

[RuthWells]

I use frozen whites for meringues all the time with no ill effect -- I'll be interested to hear feedback from everyone on this question.

Just for clarity, I am referring to meringues on pies, not the slow baked meringues. I find that fresh whites whip up nicer, and on the occasions that I've used frozen whites, I've found that they leak. (Like on a lemon meringue pie). Plus, honestly, it's a mental thing also, the thought of eating meringue that was made from frozen whites just doesn't appeal to me very much. At least in a buttercream they're all mixed in, and the same goes for cakes or whatever other uses they will be used for.

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Ah, so we're really talking about whether frozen whites weep more than fresh when used as a meringue topping? I use a cooked-syrup meringue (using brown sugar - yum!) for lemon meringue pie, so I can't speak to the weeping issue.

As for the mental part -- you're on your own!

[K8memphis]

I'm surprised at this -- perhaps they were somehow contaminated with a trace of fat.  Plastic container maybe?  Done that ... 

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(Yes they were in tupperware.)

Edited to add: For years, YEARS I tell you, I've been throwing out leftover whites since that.

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Baking is such a strange chemistry. You can tweak a teensly thing and get a ginormous different product or no product at all. Or a product so new/different that nobody knows what to do with it yet.

My little Momma wanted to make angel food cakes and she tried and tried and tried and it never worked. Then she caught on and replaced her plastic bowl with a metal one and viola she did it. This like 50 years ago.

For that reason, I am uber weird about egg whites--I usually re-wash every utensil in hot soapy water just before doing any royal icing or whatever egg whitey thing like that.

But yet you can pipe royal icing or meringues out of plastic piping bags and it sets up. I guess it just gets coated inside the bag & it doesn't break it down. But I mean I use parchment anyways.

>>>>>But Mike NYC--try that fresh compressed yeast if you can get it. It is not available in my area, but it smells the best and you have to activate it in water & sugar--you can't use it in a fast rise method where you add yeast to the flour but it's the best stuff!!!!!!

[TMus1111]

Nope, not the way it is out of the oven. Literally upside down -- like the bottom of the pan is facing the ceiling and the cake is "hanging" from the inside of the pan, hovering over the counter.

I've never actually done the toothpick thing (I do it differently), but you would put long toothpicks around the edge of the cake and turn it over on the counter. The picks would be holding the inside of the cake pan up off the counter and the cake would be hanging out underneath.

You don't grease a pan for a chiffon because you want it to cling to rise nice and light. When time to take it out of the pan, you slide a knife around the edge and pop it out.

Wish you could draw in the thread...

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[SweetSide]

Nope, not the way it is out of the oven.  Literally upside down -- like the bottom of the pan is facing the ceiling and the cake is "hanging" from the inside of the pan, hovering over the counter.

I've never actually done the toothpick thing (I do it differently), but you would put long toothpicks around the edge of the cake and turn it over on the counter.  The picks would be holding the inside of the cake pan up off the counter and the cake would be hanging out underneath. 

You don't grease a pan for a chiffon because you want it to cling to rise nice and light.  When time to take it out of the pan, you slide a knife around the edge and pop it out. 

Wish you could draw in the thread...

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OK, I am REALLY a baking dumbass, cause I STILL don't get it. If you turn the pan upside down using either toothpicks or the little feet on the pan (which my pan has but I never knew what for) - wont the cake fall out of the pan and onto the counter?

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Nope -- won't fall out unless it is underbaked (and still too wet and heavy) or you greased your pan (made that boo boo And if you think the cake goes flatter in the right-side-up pan, you should see how flat it goes when it whumps on to the counter!). That's what them little feet are for! The toothpicks are for when you use just a regular round cake pan making layers.

Really -- trust us. Wish I had a picture to show you of the cake hangin' out upside down in there with my daughter peeking up at it the first time saying "ain't it gonna fall out mom?"...

Edited March 16, 2006 by SweetSide (log)

[Lindacakes]

I just happened upon this thread and read the whole thing, so if I can add something non-egg white related, and non-yeast cake related, back to the "I'm a baking dumb ass" point --

I learned to bake by watching my mother, who was a very good baker. I'm a good baker, too. Most of what I know comes from either doing it (absolutely the best way) or reading about it (like we're doing here, and from cookbooks).

There is something about baking that is about feel -- knowing textures, colors, consistencies, temperatures, etc. -- that is practically instinctual. Someone who is good can read a recipe and know pretty much what that baked good is going to taste like, or at least, whether the recipe is a good one or not.

A good recipe is your best ally. Someone made the point that there are many horrible recipes out there, floating around. I've made recipes that other people ooh and ahh over and I think they stink. To find one, you've got to make a lot of the same thing. Then hang on to it for dear life. Because that one recipe represents an investment of a lot of time and effort on your part. Knowing who to trust is essential. Many people disagree about who to trust -- Rose Levy Berenbaum being the most controversial, in my experience. We all have different senses of taste, different sensibilities, so you need to find the baker who fits your style.

For me, it is Maida Heatter. I can make any Maida Heatter recipe and like it. It's a degree to how much I'm crazy about it. I have every single one of her books. She's very much a buttery, French-style baking approach. To me, her stuff is classier without being overly concerned with style at the expense of taste.

I personally have not found a RLB recipe that I like. I respect those who love her, though, because she's right for them.

Once you are armed with a good recipe, it's about technique. There's a "right" way to do most of baking, and that is more or less appealing to individuals. I'm pretty anal, and I like the meditative quality of following a defined trajectory to a defined result. This would spell disaster for someone of another temperament.

Regarding schooling - a short story:

My mother made heavenly pie. I could not, for the longest time, replicate my mother's pie. I tried her recipe, other recipes, artisanal lards, you name it. No luck. Then I took a class with Carole Walter. I knew everything she told the class. Had done it before. We broke for lunch, I sat next to her, and told her my plight. Carole paid special attention to me, stood over me, and showed me the 2 degree difference in a couple of techniques. Then she told me to go home and make at least four pies in the next week.

It took me two or three weeks, but I made the pies, and I dare say, I think mine is better than my mother's.

One of the things I really, really enjoy about baking is that I can keep challenging myself and sort of moving along in surprising directions. It truly is a restorative, regenerating sort of thing for me, because I can apply the principles to other aspects of my life -- keeping an open mind, continual learning, practice, etc.

I applaud anyone who says they are a baking dumb ass, and wants to learn more. That's a very positive position to be in.

And to the person who take photographs of food -- embarassingly, I emptied my camera after Christmas and there were a few photographs of the tree and scores of photographs of everything I'd baked since Thanksgiving. Exceedingly shameful.

[Lindacakes]

One more blither!

I'm a King Arthur flour person -- and I recently bought two five pound bags of Gold Medal because RLB endorses Gold Medal on her Web site and recommends it for her recipes.

Man, did I not like the Gold Medal! It behaved just fine, everything I made was basically the same, but there was something so missing. Something about the density (and I'm talking a very small difference, but discernable) and the taste. There was a sort of refined, chemically taste to the Gold Medal.

Even in the flour bucket, the Gold Medal seemed anemic, shlumpy.

I keep KA cake flour on hand and when I want a "lighter" flour, I mix the two. Always mix for pie pastry (another RLB tip).

[skyflyer3]

One more blither!

I'm a King Arthur flour person -- and I recently bought two five pound bags of Gold Medal because RLB endorses Gold Medal on her Web site and recommends it for her recipes.

Man, did I not like the Gold Medal!  It behaved just fine, everything I made was basically the same, but there was something so missing.  Something about the density (and I'm talking a very small difference, but discernable) and the taste.  There was a sort of refined, chemically taste to the Gold Medal. 

Even in the flour bucket, the Gold Medal seemed anemic, shlumpy.

I keep KA cake flour on hand and when I want a "lighter" flour, I mix the two.  Always mix for pie pastry (another RLB tip).

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I know what you mean. I love KA flour - it's such a high-quality product. One thing I am trying to find is a lesser protein flour for biscuits, scones, etc., and currently I use Robin Hood (Canadian) pastry flour, but I'm thinking about using Pilsbury bleached, since it's rated pretty high by Cooks Illustrated. Anyone have experience with Pilsbury flour?

[NYC Mike]

Thermometers...which do you use? I am slightly blistered from trying to dip the meat thermometer in the sugar and waiting for it to spin up.

Do you use digital? Use a pot clip to leave the thermometer in the pot? I saw one with an alarm for every candy stage and a one with a wired probe like I might go measuring radiation.

Mike

[SweetSide]

For sugar, I have a candy thermometer that clips to the pot so I can see the progress.

For most other things, I have a Thermopen that I love. Stick it in just a small bit, and it reads out in like 5 seconds. Digital. Great for shallow items. Thin needle. Expensive, but one of my best investments. No waiting for a dial to go round and round while receiving steam or sugar burns.

Got mine from Baker's Catalogue Here

All my others mostly just sit in the drawer -- they seem to be multiplying too -- have to keep an eye on them...

[miladyinsanity]

I learned to bake by watching my mother, who was a very good baker.  I'm a good baker, too.  Most of what I know comes from either doing it (absolutely the best way) or reading about it (like we're doing here, and from cookbooks).

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That's how I learnt too, though I guess you'd still call me a beginner. A very ambitious beginner though.

I like to draw an analogy to chemistry for baking.

In chemistry, there's something called an endpoint, which is when a reaction stops.

In baking, it could just be cooking a choux pastry until it's dry enough. Or whipping egg whites/yolks or cream. Or beating butter, with or without sugar.