per "se"

[chankonabe]

So, a friend of mine just handed over a menu from Per Se and I just was wondering what was with all of the quotation marks. It made me remember my dinner at The French Laundry where I thought the same thing. Am I being ridiculous? Or is putting "emulsion" in quotes ridiculous. I absolutely respect and admire Thomas Keller's craftsmanship, and attention to detail. I'm just wondering which detail he was paying "attention" to. I mean "oysters and pearls" I can understand, because there aren't really any pearls, dig? Which went along with that whole "macaroni and cheese" thing he was doing, now things have gone too far they've dropped the "kitch" but kept the quote. Every French word on the whole menu is "quotized" and it’s starting to drive me batty, stand back far enough and it resembles arabic for crying out loud. And then I notice that even all of the French and Spanish and Italian words are in quotes, how is "compote" more deserving than the undignified Frisée, I mean it has an accent and everything, or would it just look to funny having them both in quotations along side each other. "Amandine" but not -sautéed-, is it not really amandine? Is "Cuit sous vide" not really cooked sous vide and just a play on the process. I think we all know what a "purée" is by now, no? If not then "coulis" has surely homogenized itself into the English language by now, how about "crouton"? How about "shichimi Togarashi" maybe not, but why the emphasis? Why not - Toasted "Brioche"- or -"Niçoise" olives-? What language is -Ossetra- in while I'm at it, Iranian? And to kick me while I'm down I end up on "Sweetened Salty Hazelnuts" help me out here Tom, what the freak are you up to? I didn't have OCD until I read this menu but now consider myself a victim, starving for a system to make it all make sense. 26 words in quotations on the Chef's tasting menu alone, with no discernable rhyme or reason. Would have liked to have seen: PRIX FIX "150.00" at the bottom just to spice things up a bit, some kind of sliding scale. Around 68 on the regular menu, sixty freakin’ eight words in quotes. It starts to feel like being "shouted" at after a while, did I over do it with the 19 in this post? Or maybe I'm just jealous because my friend went to Per Se and all I got was this stupid menu.

Edited January 30, 2006 by chankonabe (log)

[Fat Guy]

I "agree."

[Sneakeater]

There's a "funny" "joke" on the "menu" of Will Goldfarb's "new" "New York" "dessert" "place", Room 4 Dessert. Look for the "cheese plate".

Edited January 30, 2006 by Sneakeater (log)

[greensNbeans]

I tend to do the samething on my menus, but I do it more to compare the item to a similar one. For example, last week we made coffee infused duck pate "bon bons", and I put that in quotation because of course it is not a real bon bon. I also do it because we do a lot of play on words or puns on the menu - I think it loosens up the guest and lets them see that we are not all serious as things used to be! It's only food after all.

.... cheers

[bigwino]

Unfortunately, it's like some sort of punctuation Avian Flu. The problem is "everywhere." From Per Se-level fine dining down to mid market family joints, everyone's getting the quotation "fever."

I'd love to see a Jeffery Steingarten article on it. I think his comments would be priceless and cutting.

[pedro]

He's undoubtedly catering an old clientele. In these days of SMS jargon, assuming that your audience can interpret the subtleties introduced by quotes is, to say the least, an exercise of naivety.

[docsconz]

Six posts on this thread already and nobody even bothered to "welcome" chankonabe to eGullet? Well, welcome to eGullet Chankonabe, no quotations needed for this welcome!

[Jason Perlow]

I don't "know" but the "rediculous series of quotes" is starting to make this "eccentric foodie bulletin board" look like a "goddamned Zagat entry".

[tan319]

Well, honestly, when you're a chef, and some "jackass" doesn't "get it" when you don't "use the quotes", everybody gets miserable.

The diner gets irate because he or she says " that's not a ("fill in the blank"") which of course, makes you want to "strangle "the imbecile" and.... you get my "drift".

If we were in Europe, would we have to be so "cute" ???

Keller is "pushing" the limit though, 'don'cha think?

[Bobby 2 Shakes]

Seeing as how Keller is a perfectionist and isn't shy about hiring more people to get the job done, why don't you let him know your objection? Maybe he'll hire you as "chef du ponctuation."

[tan319]

I would say Keller is doing "fine"

w/o a 'chef de puncuation'.

Seeing as how Keller is a perfectionist and isn't shy about hiring more people to get the job done, why don't you let him know your objection? Maybe he'll hire you as "chef du ponctuation."

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[MobyP]

Best - and best written - first post I can think of for an age.

Welcome Chakonabe.

[pork]

This "practice" is not limited to "restaurants." I see flagrant "violations" of the "English" language "everywhere." I, too, "hate" to see "quotation marks" being "misused."

[iheartoffal]

I was always under the assumption that the quotations made the food taste better...

[jesteinf]

This was probably the only thing that bothered me on my only visit to Per Se. I knew I wanted to do the tasting menu no matter what was on it, so I gave up on trying to decipher all of the quotation marks.

Looking back, some of it does seem pretty silly, like:

Snake River Farm's "Calotte de Boeuf Grillee", "Wagyu" Beef Brisket "Hachis Parmentier", Black Trumpet Mushroom "Duxelles" and "Haricots Verts" with "Sauce Bordelaise"

Now, come on. Under what circumstances is Haricots Verts not Haricots Verts?

Edited January 31, 2006 by jesteinf (log)

[artisanbaker]

you should try "emailing" chef and "asking."

[cdh]

Well, the spate of quote abuse does point to a deficiency in standard written English-- lack of an irony mark. When there is not enough context to allow a reader to infer a less than literal intention, how should a writer try to convey a less than literal intention?

We've got ready access to a zillion typefaces and enough random little marks that we encode characters in 8 bits (256 possibilities) for each one. Using something that already has a meaning, like quotation marks, as an irony mark seems silly. Pick a new mark and stick with it.

I nominate the ~ mark... it's wavery and visually implies not exactitude... and in math it actually means "similar to"... and it is already on everybody's keyboard and nobody ever uses it for anything substantive outside of math.

So instead of a "raspberry coulis" it would be a ~raspberry coulis~ ... much prettier, I think.

[oakapple]

Well, the spate of quote abuse does point to a deficiency in standard written English-- lack of an irony mark.  When there is not enough context to allow a reader to infer a less than literal intention, how should a writer try to convey a less than literal intention?

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Like any literary device, irony becomes tiresome when overused. I think quotes work just fine for this purpose, but the Per Se menu has abused the custom, and now it's just a joke.

[Bobby 2 Shakes]

I understand that the FDA is considering the requirement of a warning label on menus with more than 25 quote marks - for the benefit of those who may have used hallucinogens in the past, or especially, the present.

[MarketStEl]

Well, the spate of quote abuse does point to a deficiency in standard written English-- lack of an irony mark.  When there is not enough context to allow a reader to infer a less than literal intention, how should a writer try to convey a less than literal intention?

←

Like any literary device, irony becomes tiresome when overused. I think quotes work just fine for this purpose, but the Per Se menu has abused the custom, and now it's just a joke.

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So here:

Snake River Farm's "Calotte de Boeuf Grillee", "Wagyu" Beef Brisket "Hachis Parmentier", Black Trumpet Mushroom "Duxelles" and "Haricots Verts" with "Sauce Bordelaise"

Ces-ci n'est pas haricots verts?

Ceci n'est pas sauce bordelaise aussi?

[Kent Wang]

Is this why it's called Per Se: when someone asks about the "haricots verts" the waiter responds with "Well, sir, they're not really haricots verts per se."

[akwa]

its amazing that he has reached any level of success in the kitchen without strunk and white

he probably should have sought tenure as times restaurant critic

ouch!

[Sneakeater]

At this exact moment, I think scare quotes around the word "critic" would actually be justified.

[racheld]

Welcome, Chankonabe!! Great first post. Or any post, for that matter. You sure did come outa the gate running.

[Nyleve Baar]

My favourite misuse of quotation marks is on a small ad I have pinned to my bulletin board which reads:

SKY DIVE

from a

"perfectly good airplane"