The merits of chain dining in the Heartland

[Katie Nell]

i was in kci (kansas city international airport) recently and happened upon this. 

←

I'm kind of surprised to see Wolfgang in that category. I have to admit that I don't get annoyed often from over-exposed celebrity chefs, like a lot of egulleters, but... I was a little frustrated at the grocery store the other day when all the lettuces had Emeril's face plastered all over them! Come on... how much does he really have to do with lettuce?

Did you try anything?

[ulterior epicure]

katie:

have seen emeril on lettuces; martha stewart on dishtowels to handmixers; rachel ray on pots and pans; and paul newman on, well - everything!

i steered clear of the "wolfgang puck to go" -which were all pre-packaged sandwiches/drinks/etc... would be interested to hear from those who have tried this pit-stop.

u.e.

[Tess]

I bought a Wolfgang Puck salad in the LA (I think) airport and it had a hair in it. Other than that, I don't recall it looking much different-- I didn't taste it-- than most of the prepackaged food you can buy around airports. I've always thought of WP as being kind of a watered-down brand. He sells frozen food and terrible canned soup as well.

Edited January 10, 2006 by Tess (log)

[jgm]

My husband brought home some Emeril tomatoes the other day.

I don't mind, if the food is of a higher quality than I can buy at that same location. A Wolfgang Puck food stand in an airport would be welcome if I were assured of buying really good food there, especially if the other food available is of significantly lesser quality. Significantly being the most important word in that sentence.

Emeril's vegetables, however, are another matter. It smacks of greed, and of a marketing plan that's out of control. He's well on his way to overexposure. Unless, of course, he somehow manages to offer vegetables that are clearly of a higher quality than the other vegetables available at the same store. I have my doubts.

I think Americans need to learn to "Just say no to marketing."

[jsolomon]

I bought a Wolfgang Puck salad in the LA (I think) airport and it had a hair in it.

←

And it wasn't advertised as hand-made? That should have raised the price by a good $.50

[ulterior epicure]

I don't mind, if the food is of a higher quality than I can buy at that same location.  A Wolfgang Puck food stand in an airport would be welcome if I were assured of buying really good food there, especially if the other food available is of significantly lesser quality.  Significantly being the most important word in that sentence.

agreed, jgm. however, i must admit that i too have tried wolfgang's food (at another airport - l.a.x.) and it wasn't necessarily any higher quality than any of the other "no-name" food stores in the terminal. the advantage of w.p.'s was the name recognition and the somewhat nicer decor (sit-down airport "resto").

I think Americans need to learn to "Just say no to marketing."

←

well, i wouldn't personally say no to all marketing. for me, it's a matter of picking and choosing what type of marketing really is sincere and can offer better products/services.

u.e.

[Zeemanb]

A lot of my friends like to eat out largely to be waited on and have a sense of luxury. If they can go high-end, fine, but if you can't, a chain that offers a certain experience (can you say "hospitaliano"?) may be an alternative. I don't mean to sound snobby about this. I enjoy being catered to as well.

←

I have to add something here re: being catered to. That's a very good point and something that came to mind over the weekend. When it comes to eating out, my dollars dictate that I usually eat at a dependable favorite (or when I try a new place it has come highly recommended from a trusted source). That applies to both ends of the dining spectrum.

On Friday night I went to my "go-to" restaurant (a chain in its own right...there's more than just the KC location) with my girlfriend and parents, and we found out when we arrived that my regular server was out of town. Actually, either most of the regular staff was out that night or there has been some serious turnover recently…my back-up regular server wasn't there either. The service was still good, the food was the same good quality as always, but anyone who has become a serious regular at a restaurant knows what I mean….you miss your server like you miss a friend when they aren't there. They know what food you like, what wine you like, you can bust chops back and forth, and you know each other on a personal level. And when they eventually move on, they know the best replacement to "inherit" your regular business.

Whether it's the high waitstaff turnover I associate with mega-chains, a general lack of interest in the food, or the forced/scripted friendliness I've experienced, I can't think of one where I'd bother to cultivate the type of relationship I've got with my "go-to" destinations. Sure, you're always going to run across some outstanding servers at chain restaurants, but the food is what gets my second, third, etc. visits…getting a good, regular server is just an inevitability. I can't argue with anyone who eats at one because they like the food (trust me, I live with one of those people, I've tried..... ), and if they've found a combo of food and service that works for them on a regular basis, that's great. In fact, we both thrive on the familiar. I've eaten enough bad road food to be thankful for an Olive Garden or Chili's when I'm going down the highway, they're usually a safe bet, but when I think of an "evening out" I'm always going to stick to places where I love the food and they know me (whether it's foie gras or biscuits and gravy) or a new place that sounds like it may make it into the rotation.

I know I'm not alone on this. I enjoy being "money in the bank" for my regular restaurants, they serve me good food and treat me well.

[moosnsqrl]

jgm, I think we exchanged PMs a while back about economizing on the day-to-day to support fine dining. That would be my second biggest problem with eating at OG...I find cooking therapeutic so I would rather go home and make fresh pasta (takes about 10 minutes and costs <$1.00 - even with organic flour and free-range eggs) and even if I just adorn it with a splash of good olive oil (from the Napa Valley Manufactory, as often as an obscure Tuscan villa), a clove of garlic and a shaving or two of "the undisputed king of cheeses" (sorry, cracks me up when Mario says that) I am far happier with that than I would be at OG. Essentially two of us eat for a couple of dollars (exclusive of wine, of course) versus, what, $20 or $30? I don't even know what it costs to eat there to be honest. Any time I start to waiver in my resolve, I think about my favorite servers (and chefs) and figure if I stay out of mediocre places 2-3 times, I can rationalize a good meal.

And I personally would go to Angelo's daily because I like it a lot (for what it is, which is ItalAmerican) and the $$ stays in town. Not putting a guilt trip on you. Just me, my taste and my predilection.

[Devotay]

Maybe the chains are beginning to catch on. Witness:

Death of the Food Court: It's time to declare the death of the food court, that convenient but gastronomically dubious Mecca of fast food. As a 'foodie culture' emerges here in the U.S., 2006 won't be about how quickly we can get a burger; it will be about food's richer role in our lives. "Food - how we buy it, prepare it, consume it - has an unmistakable cultural DNA to it," says Gunning. "We're starting to see a much deeper appreciation for the social aspects of dining, not to mention a great desire for more relaxing environments that highlight the freshness of the food and the drama of its preparation." Europeans and Asians have designed their dining environments around this concept for centuries; expect US developers to build more 'slow-food' environments in 2006.

Read the whole article here

If the giant chains begin to make honest food, with fresh ingredients, Slow Food freaks like me won;t feel our ideas are threatened, will just raise a glass and say "welcome to the club, enjoy!"

Edited January 10, 2006 by Devotay (log)

[ulterior epicure]

Any time I start to waiver in my resolve, I think about my favorite servers (and chefs) and figure if I stay out of mediocre places 2-3 times, I can rationalize a good meal. 

←

this is one very large incentive for me to eschew the chains in lieu of cooking at home - not to mention that cooking at home is a sheer delight for me. unfortunately, i know that's not the case with everyone.

[edited to add:] one being constantly on the move, i find it hard to find a place with a kitchen. travelling does take the options out of cooking and/or upmarket dining everyday. even if one does have the expense account/personal resources to support that kind of habit, one's cholesterol, blood pressure, spare tire, and health, etc... are other things to consider. however, on the health point: higher-end establishments, or even locally owned regionally conscious chefs tend to have a stronger emphasis on organic/natural foods and resource wholesome products which are not laden with preservatives/hormone-injections/genetically engineered mutant trains/out-of-season unripeness than chains...

i have got to stop living out of a suitcase!

u.e.

Edited January 10, 2006 by ulterior epicure (log)

[gmi3804]

Ron, if you ever do find yourself in an Olive Garden, I suggest you try the Toscana soup.  Chicken broth base with potatoes, sausage, and "cavolo greens" (kale), finished off with a little bit of cream.  Simple food, maybe not 3- or 4-star dining, but so far, every time I've ordered it, they haven't managed to mess it up. 

Isn't this consistency of quality at The Olive Garden more a function of boil-in-bag soups, sauces, and salad dressings procured from distibution centers than good cooking from an onsite chef?

[jgm]

Ron, if you ever do find yourself in an Olive Garden, I suggest you try the Toscana soup.  Chicken broth base with potatoes, sausage, and "cavolo greens" (kale), finished off with a little bit of cream.  Simple food, maybe not 3- or 4-star dining, but so far, every time I've ordered it, they haven't managed to mess it up. 

Isn't this consistency of quality at The Olive Garden more a function of boil-in-bag soups, sauces, and salad dressings procured from distibution centers than good cooking from an onsite chef?

←

Perhaps. But it's good soup. And in my opinion, one of the better items on the menu. My point is, not that you should go to OG to get this soup, but if "you find yourself in an Olive Garden"... such as when out-of-town relatives show up and that's where they decide to treat you to dinner, or maybe it's a co-worker's birthday and that's where he or she wants to eat. I've eaten at a number of places where I'm not crazy about the food, but I go because that's where whatever group I'm a part of, has chosen to go. Just because it's a chain restaurant doesn't automatically mean the food isn't good. In a previous post, I spoke of living in a city where sometimes chain food, and the food of this chain restaurant in particular, is among the better food in town. OG is where my elderly parents choose to eat when they visit. (And Judy, while I do also find cooking therapeutic, I do not find cooking for my parents therapeutic, which is why I do not do it. You don't wanna know the details! ) Hence... I eat at OG about once a month.

[ulterior epicure]

Isn't this consistency of quality at The Olive Garden more a function of boil-in-bag soups, sauces,

but, isn't sous vides all the rage now in the u.s.?

and salad dressings procured from distibution centers than good cooking from an onsite chef?

←

actually, i had a friend who worked at an olive garden. he took me back into the kitchen, where microwaves were an integral part of their preparation process... (that was quite a few years ago).

u.e.

[moosnsqrl]

(And Judy, while I do also find cooking therapeutic, I do not find cooking for my parents therapeutic, which is why I do not do it.  You don't wanna know the details! ) 

Nonsense, of course I want to know the details! When my mother was still living I cooked for her a lot and while I enjoyed doing it and she enjoyed eating it, she could never (NEVER) stop saying "you're going to too much trouble" or "I could just eat anything" or the like. She disliked cooking so much that it was absolutely unfathomable to her that I was doing it because I wanted to.

I'm glad your parents are still around and able to enjoy dining with you, even if it means OG. Enjoy it while you can (their company, I mean, not the food ).

[Behemoth]

actually, i had a friend who worked at an olive garden.  he took me back into the kitchen, where microwaves were an integral part of their preparation process... (that was quite a few years ago).

I'm not surprised, it tastes like it to me. On the other hand, I spent the last 2.5 years in a small midwestern town and some of the chains are really the best option in category. Chevy's seems to do decent reasonably fresh mexican food so long as you order intelligently from their menu. (aka probably not the chimichanga...) and Noodles is a decent place that serves (oddly enough) all kinds of noodles, with fresh toppings. Chipotle certainly gets points for using Nieman Ranch Pork. And Steak & Shake makes an undeniably good milkshake. Biaggi's is sort of the expensive version of Olive Garden but considering what passed for Italian food in that town it was usually the safer choice. Normally I would be all for the mom & pop places but we really had a few truly awful (and not particularly cheap!) meals before we found the places we liked. Having said that, why do so many chain dining rooms feel like giant feeding barns? I wish they would shrink the rooms downa little, make the service a little less frenzied.

[Devotay]

Having said that, why do so many chain dining rooms feel like giant feeding barns? I wish they would shrink the rooms downa  little, make the service a little less frenzied.

←

They can't do that. They are all about what is refered to in the industry as "turn & burn;" that is, get'em in, get'em out, and raise that app, drink, and dessert total as much as possible (that's where the servers, and the restaurants as a whole make their money). More butts in the chairs, that's all that matters. (thus the comparison above to a feed barn. Not only are you what you eat, but you are also what what you eat eats.

See, it's not about the food, never has been about the food, it's about the finances. If you've got no good places to eat in town, go to the next town, or cook at home. Remember, cooking is NEVER a chore.

As for those above who've said they are after the consistent service, I swear to God if I ever hear "Hi, I'm Buffy and I'll be your server today can I interest you in a bubblegum margarita?" or some such thing again I'll be leaving the restaurant in the back of a squad car.

[Behemoth]

Kurt, you were looking for slow food types in the midwest at one point -- I would like to call your attention to the folks at Blue Schoolhouse farm, who serve the Bloomington-Normal farmer's markets. Such beautiful produce and pure dedication. Also, I think the Garlic Press there has done a lot to increase awareness of something beyond the chains, though sadly it still seems to be kind of "alternative" in that market. Still, the opening of slightly more "upscale" chains seems to indicate that there is increasing awareness of good food, and so there may be some hope for the region yet.

edit: having caught your second paragraph, yes of course you can cook at home (I did almost every day) but if you come home late from work and just want something right away, slow food is just not cutting it. Also, sometimes you just want to go out and see new faces, no matter if they are dressed in those godawful christmas sweaters. Finally, when the next town over is 50 miles away, it is not the most environmentally-kind option either. One does what one can (by the end of it I was on a first name basis with most of the people at the farmer's market, not to mention the local indian and mexican groceries) but this type of attitude that anyone who eats in a chain is an ignorant git is really irritating. My family grows their own olive oil, for god's sake. More slow we really couldn't get.

Edited January 11, 2006 by Behemoth (log)

[Tess]

See, it's not about the food, never has been about the food, it's about the finances.  If you've got no good places to eat in town, go to the next town, or cook at home.  Remember, cooking is NEVER a chore.

In your opinion. I love to cook, but yes indeed, in my experience cooking can be a chore.

I agree with Behemoth. People have all sorts of reasons to want to go out for a meal. Some people don't understand why anyone gets coffee out when you can always make better coffee at home. Some don't understand why people pay the markups on booze and wine in restaurants. Others don't get why anyone eats out, ever. I understand all those points of view on some level. What I don't understand is why anyone thinks their pet one is the only reasonable one.

[ronnie_suburban]

See, it's not about the food, never has been about the food, it's about the finances.  If you've got no good places to eat in town, go to the next town, or cook at home.  Remember, cooking is NEVER a chore.

In your opinion. I love to cook, but yes indeed, in my experience cooking can be a chore.

I agree with Behemoth. People have all sorts of reasons to want to go out for a meal. Some people don't understand why anyone gets coffee out when you can always make better coffee at home. Some don't understand why people pay the markups on booze and wine in restaurants. Others don't get why anyone eats out, ever. I understand all those points of view on some level. What I don't understand is why anyone thinks their pet one is the only reasonable one.

←

LOL! I agree that cooking is -- from time to time -- a chore. And when I'm feeling that way, is when I'm most likely to go out for a meal. In fact, that feeling is one of the two primary reasons why I do go out to eat. Saying that cooking is never a chore may be true for Kurt, but based on the size of the restaurant industry, I'm guessing that he's in a very small minority with that perspective.

=R=

[joiei]

after having worked all day cooking for other people and getting off around 8:30pm, I enjoy having someone else cook for me and am willing to pay for that luxury and pleasure.

[Devotay]

My point is that the American public has been tricked, bamboozled, flimiflammed, sold a bill of goods that says that cooking is a chore, akin to laundry or wasing windows or taking out the trash - something to be avoided if possible then done grudgingly and apathetically when things you'd rather be doing are forced down the list of priorities.

Not so! Approached with a positive mind set, cooking is an enriching, even deeply spiritual act, a way we show our love for our family and friends. Indeed it is the most important thing that distinguishes us from the rest of the living world - no other creature applies heat to its food. How did we let that get knocked down our list of important parts of our lives?

The fast food industry, and by extension the casual chains, bear much of the responsibilty for convincing people to mistake frenzied shortcuts for simple efficiency. Their marketing abilities are extremely powerful and effective, and that is why they are popular - people have become convinced that that is what's good because they've been told over and over not to cook, not to experiment, not to try new things.

The great teaching chef Marcella Hazan said it best - saying you have no time to cook is like saying you have no time to bathe.

[moosnsqrl]

but this type of attitude that anyone who eats in a chain is an ignorant git is really irritating.

I searched and searched on "ignorant" and "git" but didn't find either in the thread anywhere.

My family grows their own olive oil, for god's sake. More slow we really couldn't get.

I think, if you were to start your own sea and wait to harvest your own salt, that might be marginally slower than growing your own olive oil. But I'm confident that someone more scientifically astute will correct me.

Yes, I feel fortunate that I enjoy cooking (and felt all the more-so when we lived in less dining-friendly areas), regardless of my state. If I didn't, I'm sure my idea of what constitutes acceptable destinations would be far, far different.

[Tess]

My point is that the American public has been tricked, bamboozled, flimiflammed, sold a bill of goods that says that cooking is a chore, akin to laundry or wasing windows or taking out the trash - something to be avoided if possible then done grudgingly and apathetically when things you'd rather be doing are forced down the list of priorities.

But what's your answer to those of us who say we enjoy cooking very much but find it a chore at times? Do you think that's just not a reasonable standpoint?

[Devotay]

My point is that the American public has been tricked, bamboozled, flimiflammed, sold a bill of goods that says that cooking is a chore, akin to laundry or wasing windows or taking out the trash - something to be avoided if possible then done grudgingly and apathetically when things you'd rather be doing are forced down the list of priorities.

But what's your answer to those of us who say we enjoy cooking very much but find it a chore at times? Do you think that's just not a reasonable standpoint?

←

Of course it's reasonable, I just think it's unfortunate.

Behemoth, I never called anyone ignorant. Stating my postion forcefully does not preclude other points of view, I'm just not going to equivocate.

And keep in mind, this is a restaurant owner who is saying that people should cook at home far more than they do.

[Behemoth]

It's sort of interesting to me (and if this gets into unacceptably political territory I'm sure I will soon be made aware of it) when a fairly lefty (anti-big-business, in any case) idea like slow food digs its heels so resolutely that it begins to sound so socially conservative. Yes, my grandmother spent loving hours stirring her pomegranate molasses, harvesting olives, raising ten children and a bunch of chickens on homemade breads but frankly that is a life I and most women are not willing to live anymore. I love to cook, make my own bread etc etc but I also enjoy having a job and getting out of the house once in a while. If that means eating out once in a while, even, god forbid, at a non-slow foods approved location then so be it. Have you considered that you are alienating your core audience with this kind of simplistic attitude? I'm sorry but the idea that someone who eats out occasionally because they don't feel like cooking that night somehow doesn't have the brains to withstand olive garden advertising is complete and utter condescending bullshit. Give this crowd a little more credit and maybe less people will be turned off by the message.

edit: kurt, we cross posted. I do get it, I really do, and my comments aren't directed at you specifically. I like forceful opinions as you can probably tell. It's just that after being in the midwest for a few years, I kind of also got a better sense of how the other half lives, and why. It will catch up, it is already starting but it needs time and patient nurturing.

Edited January 11, 2006 by Behemoth (log)