Saffron – The Topic

[fatmat]

Fatmat, perhaps if you understood how much labor actually goes into producing a reasonable quantity of saffron, you'd understand why its so expensive.

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I know why it's expensive, does not mean that it's abound with culinary value proportionate to it's cost

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Different people view things differently. Doesn't negate the value or worth of an item. It is what it is.

For me, its worth comes from what it adds to dishes that it enhances most. Its an item to be savored with care. I recognize its value and so act accordingly.

Fleur de sel or sel gris (to use your salt analogy) is expensive and value-laden. You can use regular salt in place of it, but there are times when you want to use its rarefied counterpart.

I don't know about you but if we solely used ingredients that were mundane, the world would be a boring place indeed.

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I use the best ingredients I can possibly afford for any dish I cook. I draw a huge distinction between best and expensive.

I also believe that there is a tendency for cooks to try and make things better by adding expense, when the reality is that the expense is not worth the outcome.

Finally, I don't use Fleur de Sel, as I believe that it is the Emperor's New clothes

[Jason Perlow]

Finally, I don't use Fleur de Sel, as I believe that it is the Emperor's New clothes

Or is it because you're British and the French are a bunch of....

[SobaAddict70]

I use the best ingredients I can possibly afford for any dish I cook. I draw a huge distinction between best and expensive.

I also believe that there is a tendency for cooks to try and make things better by adding expense, when the reality is that the expense is not worth the outcome.

Finally, I don't use Fleur de Sel, as I believe that it is the Emperor's New clothes

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That's fine, but there are plenty of people in the world who view things differently.

What is important is that one should strive to cook using the best ingredients available to them at any given moment, keeping in mind that what one views as "the best" differs from one person to another and also according to circumstance. There are no right or wrong answers.

I know this is not the provocative answer you were looking for, but I really do believe in that ideal.

[Corinna Dunne]

I think you need to go to a reputable vendor to get good Spanish saffron. We buy ours from a Spanish importer in Newark, NJ, and buy a whole tin at a time, for about $40.

This is a picture of the tin that we use. Immediately after opening the tin you get hit with a very intense saffron aroma.

EDIT: Its a one ounce tin.

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Mmmmm... this is what I call feeding your habit. Nice going getting it wholesale at that price!

And while we're at it... let me throw my hat into the Fleur de Sel ring. So sweet and delicate, definitely not emperor's clothes in my book. Not all salts are created equal.. in my opinion.

[TongoRad]

Like JohnL, I use Penzey's Indian Mogra cream saffron, which costs $10.95 per gram. Jason, if I'm reading your post correctly, your saffron costs $10/OUNCE, or about 35 cents per gram (since 1 oz = 28.35 grams -- thank you, gourmetsleuth).

I'm a bit perplexed.

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Pardon my French, but Holy Crap! What a difference!

I get very good quality saffron (whole threads, bright color, fresh aroma) at an Indian market called Subzi Mandi for around $25.00/ounce. It's probably Iranian, not Indian, but I can check when I get home. It certainly suits my purposes and I've been very happy with it.

ETA: I've checked and it is Spanish Mancha Saffron called The Gathering of Saffron on the tin, and it is good until 2010.

Edited January 5, 2006 by TongoRad (log)

[fatmat]

I use the best ingredients I can possibly afford for any dish I cook. I draw a huge distinction between best and expensive.

I also believe that there is a tendency for cooks to try and make things better by adding expense, when the reality is that the expense is not worth the outcome.

Finally, I don't use Fleur de Sel, as I believe that it is the Emperor's New clothes

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That's fine, but there are plenty of people in the world who view things differently.

What is important is that one should strive to cook using the best ingredients available to them at any given moment, keeping in mind that what one views as "the best" differs from one person to another and also according to circumstance. There are no right or wrong answers.

I know this is not the provocative answer you were looking for, but I really do believe in that ideal.

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To avoid wandering off on a debate about cultural relativism, I was only saying that Saffron is good, but not that good. I still maintain that it is given far more press than it is actually worth as an ingredient.

I feel that amongst the culinary world there is a tendency to attach disproportionate value to expensive ingredients - a little like culinary diamonds

[Jason Perlow]

Mmmmm... this is what I call feeding your habit

I know.. it looks like I'm doing something very illegal, doesn't it.

[JohnL]

A gram of saffron can be used to make 10 meduium to large paellas.

at penzey's cost for the best Mogra saffron $10.95 for a gram that's about a buck per use.

Saffron is just not that expensive in the long or short run especially considering its impact on a dish.

My guess is even folks who eat a lot of risotto and paella etc are not spending much on saffron (it ain't seriously impacting very many HH food budgets IMOP).

By focusing on the cost per ounce of saffron vs the cost per ounce of other ingredients is a bit unfair--cost per use and the overall impact of the item is IMOP --more valid.

Saffron is used very sparingly in every dish I know of. as noted earlier it is indispensible in a number of dishes.

I appreciate the fact that not everyone likes saffron's taste (I don't like caviar--but I appreciate it and its high cost).

In the end, most American kitchens just don't use a lot of saffron over the course of a year--we are definitely not talking salt here, or sugar or flour or.....--the pleasure (for those who appreciate and like it) provided by a paella or a risotto Milanese and the other dishes that require saffron makes the cost well worth it. (and as noted--that cost really isn't very high).

It is all relative!

[fatmat]

Mmmmm... this is what I call feeding your habit

I know.. it looks like I'm doing something very illegal, doesn't it.

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If you bring out scales, mirrors and razor blades, I'm gonna get worried

[rancho_gordo]

No trick, just commenting on how folks wax lyrical about the great and glorious saffron, when it's ok, but not that great really. Seriously speaking, salt is far more valuable to me as an ingredient, and probably to most folks. I feel that saffron is regarded as a king of spices because of it's price, not it's worth.

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The fact that you don't think it's so great doesn't mean that it isn't worth every penny to those of us who swoon at the first whiff of it. Trust me, the situation is that there is something you don't "get" or understand, not that saffron is an "OK" flavor. And more power to you for not thinking it's such a big deal!

[fatmat]

No trick, just commenting on how folks wax lyrical about the great and glorious saffron, when it's ok, but not that great really. Seriously speaking, salt is far more valuable to me as an ingredient, and probably to most folks. I feel that saffron is regarded as a king of spices because of it's price, not it's worth.

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The fact that you don't think it's so great doesn't mean that it isn't worth every penny to those of us who swoon at the first whiff of it. Trust me, the situation is that there is something you don't "get" or understand, not that saffron is an "OK" flavor. And more power to you for not thinking it's such a big deal!

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It's good, just not that good

Edited January 4, 2006 by fatmat (log)

[Rachel Perlow]

A lot of the quotes above are wrong -- the saffron jason pictured cost $40/ounce or $1.41/gram (not $10/.35 cents). Still, a good price if you are going to use that much saffron. I use a pinch a month or so, before having this big tin, I probably bought two of those itty bitty containers of saffron (available at grocery stores for ~$10) per year

[phaelon56]

I'm not sure what the saffron tastes like that comes from the crokus flowers that grow in Azerbaijan, but the really good stuff comes from Spain.

Some claim that the Iranian variety is even better than the Spanish. I've only used Mexican and Spanish brands so I'm in no position to judge (but the Spanish stuff has more flavor per pistil than the Mexcian or so it appears).

I do know that I love it in paella and notice its absence when I have paella in restaurants that don't use real saffron (meaning the great majority of paella joints in Jersey City's Ironbound section).

In South American cultures Achiote is used as a substitute for Saffron in dishes that call for it, some people actually like it better.

If you're referring to products like Goya Sauzon I agree that it's widely used as a substitute but achiote is typically just for color and MSG provides the flavor component (at least it does with products like Sauzon). I happen to enjoy yellow rice made with Sauzon although I prefer saffron rice when available.

[SobaAddict70]

To avoid wandering off on a debate about cultural relativism, I was only saying that Saffron is good, but not that good. I still maintain that it is given far more press than it is actually worth as an ingredient.

I feel that amongst the culinary world there is a tendency to attach disproportionate value to expensive ingredients - a little like culinary diamonds

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And there are those of us who view that every ingredient has its place of honor at the appropriate time. For this hobbit, it doesn't matter if its a bottle of Mrs. Dash, a bunch of Meyer lemons or a vial of aceto balsamico tradizionale....in my opinion.

To redirect this back to saffron, it could be that you haven't yet had the experience that blows you away. You probably never will, who knows? That's ok though...more for us.

[Jason Perlow]

In case anyone wants to buy some from that vendor, its Ole Ole Warehouse in Newark, NJ. They do a pretty big mail order business.

http://www.oleolefoods.com

We bought that container in 2002, so the price may have gone up.

EDIT: They are actually listing their saffron as "Mancha" grade, which is better than regular Superior grade because it is grown in La Mancha, which is the best region in Spain for Saffron. They sell it in the same tin now for $42.50, which I think is about the same price we paid.

Saffron at OleOleFoods.com

[JohnL]

A lot of the quotes above are wrong -- the saffron jason pictured cost $40/ounce or $1.41/gram (not $10/.35 cents). Still, a good price if you are going to use that much saffron. I use a pinch a month or so, before having this big tin, I probably bought two of those itty bitty containers of saffron (available at grocery stores for ~$10) per year

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my point exactly!

Saffron overall, as a commodity, is expensive (for the reasons given re: production etc).

However-on a per use basis, saffron goes a long way.

and it is absolutely indispensible in many dishes.

The flavor is quite pungent and unique so I can understand that some won't like it or find it obtrusive, though in a paella or risotto it is not IMOP --when used properly--overwhelming.

Much as I love it in rice dishes--I do not like it in many soups--chicken soup for eg.

[Beanie]

This thread prompted me to order an ounce of Iranian saffron from this company. Looks like a great deal. $35.95 ounce; free shipping; free 2 oz. bottle of pure vanilla extract; free bar of saffron soap

[Jason Perlow]

This thread prompted me to order an ounce of Iranian saffron from this company. Looks like a great deal. $35.95 ounce; free shipping; free 2 oz. bottle of pure vanilla extract; free bar of saffron soap 

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That does sound like a good deal.

Iranian Saffron has a higher coloration strength than Spanish saffron -- it tastes a little different, not necessarily better, just different. I've had it in ice cream flavored with Saffron and rosewater, it adds a nice flavor to it.

[ronnie_suburban]

My spice-savvy friends tell me that Saffron can be stored for up to 7 years with very little or no quality loss. So, stock-up!

=R=

[docsconz]

Speaking of storage - how do you store yours? We keep ours in the freezer. I can't remember where I got that advice, but it hasn't hurt our stock.

[Beanie]

This thread prompted me to order an ounce of Iranian saffron from this company. Looks like a great deal. $35.95 ounce; free shipping; free 2 oz. bottle of pure vanilla extract; free bar of saffron soap 

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That does sound like a good deal.

Iranian Saffron has a higher coloration strength than Spanish saffron -- it tastes a little different, not necessarily better, just different. I've had it in ice cream flavored with Saffron and rosewater, it adds a nice flavor to it.

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I'll report back when I receive it. I've been meaning to order from that web site for quite some time.

[Jason Perlow]

Speaking of storage - how do you store yours? We keep ours in the freezer. I can't remember where I got that advice, but it hasn't hurt our stock.

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We keep ours in the tin in the baggie in our cupboard. Hasn't affected potency in the 3 years we've had it. I would imagine though you want to keep the saffron dry, not moist.

[scott123]

just commenting on how folks wax lyrical about the great and glorious saffron, when it's ok, but not that great really.

That's your opinion and you're entitled to it. Me, I am -majorly- disappointed when I dine at a Spanish restaurant and I have a Paella or Arroz con Pollo and discover that they didn't use saffron and used something like tumeric. Its enough to turn me away from a place completely.

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Jason, I think Fatmat brings up an interesting point. I know this is an extremely rhetorical as well as a subjective area, but imagine a world without saffron and a world without salt. A world without salt would be catastrophic, would it not? Yes, there are a handful of dishes where saffron plays an integral part, but would losing saffron be even a fraction of the loss that salt would be?

I think you could take this discussion even further than saffron and salt. Imagine, if you will, a world without pepper. A world without paprika. Nutmeg. Cumin. Cinnamon. Cinnamon certainly has a devoted following, but you don't get the same reverence for cinnamon that you find for saffron. And yet, within the bigger culinary picture, losing cinnamon would involve a far greater hit than losing saffron.

If one were to look at saffron's indispensibility as compared to other ingredients, even the biggest saffron devotee would rank a substantial number of ingredients higher. Ingredients, that, although not as expensive, deserve proportionate praise.

If saffron were cheap, would it be referred to in the same lofty tone? I, personally, think not.

[Jason Perlow]

Scott, but the thing is, we don't have a world without saffron or a world without salt. We live in the world we live in.

If saffron were cheap, would it be referred to in the same lofty tone?

Salt is cheap and I speak of it loftily. So is bacon and pork fat.

By the way, there was a time when salt was NOT cheap. Entire empires, such as the ancient Lebanese sea traders and the entire port nation of Sicily was built on it. Same with black pepper.

Cinnamon certainly has a devoted following, but you don't get the same reverence for cinnamon that you find for saffron. And yet, within the bigger culinary picture, losing cinnamon would involve a far greater hit than losing saffron.

Tell that to the Spanish!!!

[fatmat]

If saffron were cheap, would it be referred to in the same lofty tone? I, personally, think not.

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I agree - tumeric has a great colour and flavour, yet where is the reverence?