Mushrooms in Chinese Cooking

[eatingwitheddie]

I have recently noticed fresh high quality shitake mushrooms in Chinatown. They are exported from China and seem to be a different (and superior) variety than those grown here. They are what the Chinese call 'flower' mushrooms due to the lines and crenellations in their caps (when dried, these sell for a premium over the other types of shitakes). They sell for the reasonable sum of $3-5/lb.

[Jinmyo]

Hua gu (flower mushrooms) are superb. I can't get them fresh in Ottawa unfortunately. But a comrade brings back pounds of dried from frequent trips to mainland China. Some of these fellas grow the size of my hand and reconstitute to about the size of my head. They are tremendous sliced on the bias and grilled with a few lashes of chile oil.

[eatingwitheddie]

jinmyo writes

'Hua gu (flower mushrooms) are superb. I can't get them fresh in Ottawa unfortunately. But a comrade brings back pounds of dried from frequent trips to mainland China. Some of these fellas grow the size of my hand and reconstitute to about the size of my head. They are tremendous sliced on the bias and grilled with a few lashes of chile oil.'

With so many mushrooms the dried variety is often better than the fresh. The ones you're receiving sound great. By the way, in NYC the majority of dried hwa goo come from Japan and Korea. I don't know what you normally do, but try soaking the mushrooms in cold water, not hot, and soak them for an extremely long time: 3-4 days. After they soften just a little, perhaps after an hour or two of soaking, trim away the stems and then return the mushrooms to the water. When you treat the best quality flower mushrooms like this I find them to be vastly better than if they only soaked for an hour or two (forget the 20 minute stuff most books suggest which is fine for a lesser grade but not these). The soaking liquid makes an excellent base for a stock or a sauce. When purchasing flower mushrooms look for ones that are quite thick. These will have a wonderful meaty quality

By the way the fresh flower mushrooms are extremely fragrant. I keep figuring that at some point some of our French chefs will discover that these guys are around and want to use them. They are absolutely excellent!

[Bux]

I see the fresh mushrooms you describe in Chinatown. They seem quite different than the shitake mushrooms I can can get in western markets such as Gourmet Garage or the Greenmarket. The caps are much thicker and they seem to have a much greater moisture content. I've only bought them once or twice and they seem far more perishable than other mushrooms. I suspect it has to do with the moisture.

[eatingwitheddie]

I see the fresh mushrooms you describe in Chinatown. They seem quite different than the shitake mushrooms I can can get in western markets such as Gourmet Garage or the Greenmarket. The caps are much thicker and they seem to have a much greater moisture content. I've only bought them once or twice and they seem far more perishable than other mushrooms. I suspect it has to do with the moisture.

I don't believe they're more perishable, I've kept them for quite a long time, well over a week. I suspect the ones you bought may have been 3/4's of the way through their post harvest life span before you acquired them. A slow boat from China ...............

[Bux]

Prices in Chinatown markets are usually very low. The quality is often good, but not always. Sometimes it is evident that price was a major factor in the marketplace.

[eatingwitheddie]

Prices in Chinatown markets are usually very low. The quality is often good, but not always. Sometimes it is evident that price was a major factor in the marketplace.

Totally true, but since these mushrooms are only sold here, I think it is primarily a question of the supply being limited and what you see is what they got. And yes when they look great the price may be as high as $5/lb (other times it is $2.5-$3.5)

[Jinmyo]

Ed, yes, the soaking liquor from huagu is extraordinary. Reduced and with just a few other touches (dashi, sake, salt and whiite pepper), it makes a wonderful mushroom consomme.

[Ruth]

Ed I did not notice your post before I postedby own not on the Chinese shiiitake on the Chinese ingredients thread. But, one more point: thse mushrooms will disappear from the markets in early summer. They freeze beautifully. Last winter I froze a good supply for the summer - best vacuum packed either raw or partially cooked

[Kikujiro]

Are hua gu/flower mushrooms a different thing from shiitake? From the posts above I was assuming they were, but a search on Google got results suggesting they're the same.

In the shops I looked in in Chinatown, London, both dried and fresh shiitake seem to come from China.

Edit: in Borough Market the mushroom stall was serving 'shit-take' (sic) mushrooms, perhaps a reference to the price.

Edited December 31, 2002 by Kikujiro (log)

[Kikujiro]

Are hua gu/flower mushrooms a different thing from shiitake? From the posts above I was assuming they were, but a search on Google got results suggesting they're the same.

Bumped 'cos I still want to know the answer ...

[eatingwitheddie]

Are hua gu/flower mushrooms a different thing from shiitake? From the posts above I was assuming they were, but a search on Google got results suggesting they're the same.

A really good answer to your question should have a scientific basis which I lack.

From an empirical point of view I can tell you for many years when one went to purchase dried shitake mushrooms there were many grades available. The best and most prized mushrooms have always been those with lines and crenellations in the cap, and particularly when they are both thick fleshed as well as large in diameter. In the Chinese language these are called flower mushrooms (hwa goo) while the still good but less expensive varieties with the solid tops are known as winter mushrooms (tung goo). It is my understanding that both these mushrooms are shitakes, but different varieties.

I started this thread because for many years we have had fresh tung goo available but it was only in the last 2 years that I have seen fresh hwa goo in the market. Plus the hwa goo are absolutely superb, better than the shitake we normally use, and half the price!

[Kikujiro]

Ed,

ah. Thanks for the detailed explanation. There are various packs of dried shiitake (with no helpful labels) in Chinatown, as well as some fresh. The dried ones I have are certainly crinkly around the top, but I don't know if that's what you mean.

How big in diameter are we talking about for dried hua gu?

Edit: ah, sorry, I think I found a picture of what you're talking about.

Not what I have, but will know what to look for next time.

Edited January 4, 2003 by Kikujiro (log)

[eatingwitheddie]

Ed,

ah. Thanks for the detailed explanation. There are various packs of dried shiitake (with no helpful labels) in Chinatown, as well as some fresh. The dried ones I have are certainly crinkly around the top, but I don't know if that's what you mean.

How big in diameter are we talking about for dried hua gu?

Edit: ah, sorry, I think I found a picture of what you're talking about.

Not what I have, but will know what to look for next time.

The picture you posted is a photo of (dried?) hwa goo (flower mushrooms).

They needn't be a particular size or thickness to be hwa goo, it's only that the most prized ones are the thickest and widest.

As I wrote in a previous post the flower mushrooms are best when soaked for a long time. I suggest softening them in room temperature water for a few hours and then trimming their stems as close to the base as possible. Then continue to soak them for a couple of days, 3-4 is even better. Store them in a covered container in the frig. Save the soaking liquid and use it for a sauce or braising base.

In a pinch you can soak the mushrooms in hot water and hasten the process. I often cover hwa goo in cold water but then put them in the microwave for a couple of minutes. If I wanted to use them quickly I would trim the mushroom stems as soon as possible and then return the mushrooms to reheat in the microwave. You can reduce the soaking time to a few hours this way, but after a long soak they will have a much superior plumpness and texture.

[Anna N]

As I wrote in a previous post the flower mushrooms are best when soaked for a long time. I suggest softening them in room temperature water for a few hours and then trimming their stems as close to the base as possible. Then continue to soak them for a couple of days, 3-4 is even better. Store them in a covered container in the frig. Save the soaking liquid and use it for a sauce or braising base.

In a pinch you can soak the mushrooms in hot water and hasten the process. I often cover hwa goo in cold water but then put them in the microwave for a couple of minutes. If I wanted to use them quickly I would trim the mushroom stems as soon as possible and then return the mushrooms to reheat in the microwave. You can reduce the soaking time to a few hours this way, but after a long soak they will have a much superior plumpness and texture.

Thanks for this explanation. I recently bought some of these from a small Japanese grocery store thinking they were the usual dried shiitakes. They did not however behave the same way. Even after the usual 20-30 minutes in hot water they remained pretty chewy. Now I know to soak them much longer.

[Stone]

Speaking of mushrooms . . . I always thought Wood Ears were those thin, brown fungus jobs often found in ju shiang -- almost like shavings.

A restaurant out here has a dish with Wood Ear mushrooms, but they're white and ribbony. They look like ribbons of rice noodles that are stuck together at the base. (Sorry, no photo.) They're great, but I've never seen them before.

Are these the same animal.

[torakris]

I currently have both types in my pantry, the brown and the white.

In Japanese the white ones are called shirokikurage, shiro meaning white and kikurage being wood ear.

I don't know if they are really the same thing or not, though they do taste similar.

[eatingwitheddie]

Speaking of mushrooms . . . I always thought Wood Ears were those thin, brown fungus jobs often found in ju shiang -- almost like shavings.

A restaurant out here has a dish with Wood Ear mushrooms, but they're white and ribbony.  They look like ribbons of rice noodles that are stuck together at the base.  (Sorry, no photo.)  They're great, but I've never seen them before.

Are these the same animal.

The item you're referring to is a cousin of tree ears called 'crystal fungus'.

Traditionally its primary use is in 'tong soi', sweet soups that are served either as a snack during midday or at the end of a meal. Crystal fungus is quite inexpensive now, but at one time it was not widely cultivated and was quite dear.

[stefanyb]

I have eaten Silver Crystal Fungus Soup here in New York City at Szechuan Gardens in the early 70's. I got a kick out of it initially just because of the name, but it is light, sweet and refreshing for dessert especially after a spicey meal.

It was the white ribbons described by Torakris in a clear sugary broth.

[eatingwitheddie]

I contributed these mushrooms to the eGullet bread event last Sunday and have had a number of requests for the recipe. Here it is.

Sauteed Fresh Shitake Mushrooms from China

Ingredients:

3 lbs fresh shitake mushrooms

2-3 tablespoons olive oil

1/4 cup minced shallots

salt

black and white pepper

1/4 cup minced scallion tops (green part) or parsley (I used scallions because that is what I had available)

Prepare ahead:

Trim away and discard the mushroom stems (they are good for stock), then clean them by wiping with a damp cloth or if they are very dirty, briefly swishing them in a basin of cold water. Dry the mushroom caps if necessary, then cut into coarse shreds.

To cook:

Put 2-3 tablespoons of olive oil in a preheated saucepan large enough to hold all the mushrooms. Add the shallots and cook for a minute without browning. Add the mushrooms and a little salt and cook over fairly high heat, stirring from time to time to prevent sticking. After a couple of minutes the mushrooms will start to give off liquid, wilt, and decrease in volume. At this point increase the heat and boil down the liquid until it has completely evaporated and the mushrooms have a concentrated flavor. This will take about 5-10 minutes depending upon your stove, the pan you’re using, and how much liquid is thrown off. Next, adjust the seasonings, the mushrooms will be bland without enough salt and pepper, and at the last minute toss in the scallions or parsley.

Note: The quality of this dish is really all based on the terrific quality of the mushrooms. These fresh shitakes from China, known as ‘hwa goo’ or flower mushroom in English, are only available at a few Chinese specialty vegetable shops in NYC’s Chinatowns. In Manhattan I have bought them at a few different street vendors at the corner of Grand and Forsyth/Chrystie Sts.

[helenas]

Thanks, Ed.

Do you think it's not worth to try this recipe with the regular shiitakes? In my farmers market they carry two kinds of shiitakes: regular and thick-capped. I usually slow-roasting them in the low oven, and the result is pretty good.

[eatingwitheddie]

Thanks, Ed.

Do you think it's not worth to try this recipe with the regular shiitakes? In my farmers market they carry two kinds of shiitakes: regular and thick-capped. I usually slow-roasting them in the low oven, and the result is pretty good.

This recipe will work fine with regular shitakes or other type of mushrooms including good old button mushrooms. Go ahead and try it, you'll get a delicious result.

However the mushrooms that you tasted are a different, and to my mind, a really superior variety of shitake. The dish tasted so good because of my cooking, but also because of the flavor and aroma of the mushrooms themselves. They're worth seeking out.

[CathyL]

Ed, thanks for sharing the recipe (and the source!). This was an outstanding dish.

[jaybee]

Thank you, Ed.

[Ruth]

Nice recipe. I shall cook them your way this weekend. Actually I find that the Chinese shiitake can be a great substitute for "wild" mushrooms as they have a much stronger flavor than most of the so-called wild mushrooms we see in the markets and the price can't be beat!

Have you seen the other Chinese mushroom that has appeared sporadically in some of the NYC Chinese markets? It has a long thick stem, similar to that of a porcini, but a tiny cap. The flavor is mild but the texture of the stem is very similar to that of a porcini. They are widely available in the markets in Shanghai. I liked to cook them with the shiitake. No idea whether or not they have an English name. Elizabeth Schneider does not mention them in her mushroom chapter.