My underground restaurant

[Daniel]

Can one work in NYC????. My girl and I are planning on starting one in the next couple of months.. How would you do it....300 sq foot living room.. 200 sq foot dining room.. From buying tables and putting them in our living room on.... Help us make our restaurant... Can you have a sucessful place with out the management kicking you out... The key word is underground... Edited November 30, 2005 by Daniel (log)

[Megan Blocker]

Can one work in NYC????. My girl and I are planning on starting one in the next couple of months.. How would you do it....300 sq foot living room.. 200 sq foot dining room.. From buying tables and putting them in our living room on.... Help us make our restaurant...  Can you have a sucessful place with out the management kicking you out...    The key word is underground...

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Maybe follow the StudioKitchen model? Or, at least, what I understand that model to be...have seatings of five to ten people, a couple of nights a week...make it seem like dinner parties.

I definitely think that if anyone can pull it off, it's the two of you. You'd keep the place booked via eGullet alone, dude.

And sign me UP! I want the bacon bread pudding, stat!

[Rebecca263]

Go for it on the QT Daniel!! Call them rent parties if you need to.

[Daniel]

Where do I get good tables?

[goldie]

Where do I get good tables?

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Do you want to buy or rent? What kind of look do you want? How many people per table? What is your budget?

[Daniel]

I want to rent or buy depending on the money... I want to seat up to 20 people.. .My budget is limitless, but an intelligent limitless..I want a relaxed homey feel... It is my home after all..I am not into decore (however, my apartment is gorgeous), I am into the food and the service...

Edited November 30, 2005 by Daniel (log)

[goldie]

Ok- so the better question is what do you have now style-wise and do you wish to continue it?

Are you going to use white table clothes or something less traditional (and who is going to launder them...)? Plates? Two seatings of twenty or just one?

[Daniel]

Ok Goldie.. You are going to have to start answering some questions before I start with your next round...

[goldie]

Ok- so here's what I'm thinking:

If I were to do a restaurant in my home I'd want it to match my decor except I'd rather not pay for tables quite as nice as my diningroom table for example. Also, I'd probably want to do four tops so I could combine them. That would lead me to square tables with table clothes and half way decent chairs (because who wants to sit in a cruddy chair for an hour or two?) From there I'd go to the style question- are you more an Ikea person or a Pottery Barn person? Pick one and go there for your chairs (or check out their imposters- Ballard Designs has some interesting card tables and folding chairs, Target is also intriguing). If it were me, I'd get chairs and tables that either fold or stack because sometimes you are going to want your home to be a home, too. Now, you could go to a Taylor Rental sort of thing, but the chairs seem yucky and I think that would not be cost effecient.

Linens are a pain because they get stained- check out services first because there you might get more bang for your buck because they take them back dirty and then you just rent clean ones, especially if you don't have a washer and drier and don't like to iron.

Then move on to the math- how many dishes and tableclothes and napkins you need is dependent on how many you serve in a given night. Also, don't forget to have an extra table and a few extra chairs for mishaps.

I think it is a fun idea. We served three meals over the course of this weekend totaling up to ninety people fed. We entertain a ton and have sort of streamlined how entertaining works in our home. Fortunately, we have a big dining room and lots of chairs! For our really big groups we don't do formal seating but we are talking about getting a few folding tables and chairs. Storage is the issue. I swap out my linens, so generally I use the drycleaners or launder them myself. We have accumulated too many dishes over the years, so that isn't an issue. But we probably only entertain a total of twenty extra people a month on average, so my issues are different from yours.

[raxelita]

Have you considered tablemats instead of cloth? They are easy to clean on your own and can look chic on a good table.

How about hiring a designer to take care of the whole thing for you? If you do have a budget, this will allow you to spend more time thinking of the food/ wine logistics.

What level are you talking here-- how much money per person?

[herbacidal]

Studiokitchen is definitely a place you'll want to pop in on at least once.

Hopefully, you won't just be blown away by the experience and will notice the details around you.

As far as furniture, I'd have to go with a Target + IKEA + rental supply place combination. Check with the caterers you may know to find who the rental companies are. The only one in Philly that I have a good expectation of working in NYC as well is Party Rental, out of Teterboro, NJ, among other places.

And even if you did, it'd be quite a challenge converting a 20 person dining room to anything close to a standard "common space" arrangement in NYC square footage, when you want to.

FYI, the apartment where Studiokitchen is hosted isn't lived in, it's used soley for the dinners.

[HungryChris]

Daniel,

Before opting for new tables and the like, I think I would take a walk through some of those restaurant supply places down on Bowery. Most of them have used stuff and you would get plenty of ideas from the new items as well. Simple items like a sizzle platters would make food prep more practical and you won't find them at IKEA or Target.

The whole idea is quite interesting and should you pull it off or even attempt to, will make for volumes of interesting reading even though putting the details out on the Web might not be in your best interest. Best of luck in this intriguing endeavor.

Cheers,

HC

[lambretta76]

Chilewich placemats are beautiful looking and easy to clean. BO Concepts has nice looking furniture at reasonable prices - plus there's an Overstock sale going on right now. And never underestimate eBay - you can shop locally there, too. Lots of restaurant supply businesses put up auctions there - my friend got a perfect condition glass-doored commercial fridge for $475 there.

Another thing to think about would be what to do with all of this stuff when you're not "entertaining". Perhaps a large communal table would be worthwhile. You could have one commissioned - a large slab with legs that could be attached. You could paint the underside, remove the legs, and hang it on the wall as art when you're not using it. Stacking chairs are always nice - check out ones with that gel material as they're thin but comfortable. Design Within Reach is a good source for chairs.

If you plan on making a go of this, rental prices add up quickly - buying would probably be the best option. (If it doesn't work out, you can always sell them to recoup some of the money.)

[I_call_the_duck]

Daniel,

Great suggestions above. I agree with herbicidal—StudioKitchen is definitely a place you’d want to experience, because it is a great example of what you are trying to do.

The Bowery is definitely a great place to get supplies, though I’d look into the IKEA/Target/Pottery Barn route for furnishings. Before you decide on furnishings, you may also think of the format of the restaurant. If you’re doing separate tables with a few seatings a night, you’d need several tables as opposed to one long table, so that may change where you decide to shop. And on a related note…set menu or a variety of choices? If it’s the latter, you may need extra help in the front of the house so to speak, esp. if you and your girl are going to be sharing the cooking. That’s what I can think of for now, and I must pretend to do some work.

One last thing…the only thing about using a linen service is that if the restaurant is underground, you may not want to arouse suspicion of a truck coming to your apartment x times a week.

I’ve been hoping you’d start something like this! Good luck. Sign me up. OINK!

[AzianBrewer]

Awesome plan..So when is the grand opening party?? I will bring over a six pack of Bud.

IKEA sounds decent but I just dislike to assemble furnitures.

[Megan Blocker]

I agree with herbicidal—StudioKitchen is definitely a place you’d want to experience, because it is a great example of what you are trying to do.

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I sense a Daniel-style road trip in the offing!

[herbacidal]

Chilewich placemats are beautiful looking and easy to clean. BO Concepts has nice looking furniture at reasonable prices - plus there's an Overstock sale going on right now. And never underestimate eBay - you can shop locally there, too. Lots of restaurant supply businesses put up auctions there - my friend got a perfect condition glass-doored commercial fridge for $475 there.

Another thing to think about would be what to do with all of this stuff when you're not "entertaining". Perhaps a large communal table would be worthwhile. You could have one commissioned - a large slab with legs that could be attached. You could paint the underside, remove the legs, and hang it on the wall as art when you're not using it. Stacking chairs are always nice - check out ones with that gel material as they're thin but comfortable. Design Within Reach is a good source for chairs.

If you plan on making a go of this, rental prices add up quickly - buying would probably be the best option. (If it doesn't work out, you can always sell them to recoup some of the money.)

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As far as tabletop, I think you're best off going w/o tablecloths and using either a table surface that is easily cleanable or placemats.

Design Within Reach does have nice chairs, but I don't think they're within reach, price-wise. The idea of the large communal table is nice, but I suspect unworkable in the space.

I do like the idea of a table and legs that are easily assembled and disassembled, and then hung on walls/wherever else.

If you have artist/artisan friends, they may be able to put something together for you.

If you aren't so blessed, I'd go with IKEA for the table, and Target/IKEA for the chairs. Pottery Barn seems expensive for your budget, at this point in time.

(Studiokitchen by this time is fairly established, so he was able to buy 8-10 very nice leather chairs that are lower than most dining room chairs and have a table custom built to their height and width.)

Renting chairs isn't a good idea. I neglected to mention that what I'd suggest as far as rental companies go is getting your caterer friends to check the names on the chairs they rent for parties, and source out where you can buy them from.

Alternatively, you can call Party Rental and ask.

[phaelon56]

Are these going to be tables that can fold up so you'll reclaim some living space when not serving dinners?

My first restaurant job was in a place that used a very nifty and flexible system. They had all square four top tables. And they had a limited stack of round tops that had a square inset underneath and could be dropped directly on to the four tops and convert them to a comfortable table for six or a tight table for eight. It took all of two minutes (literally) for two of us to convert a table in either direction.

[BryanZ]

What a fascinating thread. Is this legal though, don't you have to have like health department licenses and the like to serve food commercially?

Also, one thing Daniel has yet to answer and is highly pertinent, is how much he is looking to charge for a meal. Is this going to be casual, family-style meals, or more StudioKitchen tasting menus. With all due respect, I think trying to put out tasting menus on Shola's level is far beyond the reach of most of the eG community (chefg excluded).

Also, is this meant to be a profit-making venture or simply a side-hobby?

[Daniel]

In terms of charging.. We are doing a fixed plate.. Offer four dishes and two desserts most likely.. Low country/American depending on how we feel when making the particular menu.. Certainly not on the level of the Studio Kitchen in terms of price or style.. Have not worked out the liquor yet, but I can see the ATF kicking in my door now.. Basically, I have two apartments I can use.. One is the one I am living in.. And I have an empty apartment I own.. One is a loft with really great space but a crappy kitchen.. And the other apartment has a really great kitchen, but has all my furniture there and also where i live..

Edited November 30, 2005 by Daniel (log)

[Bux]

You're likely to fly well below the ATF radar, but much less likely to avoid city and state agencies. Certainly you'll run afoul of the SLA if word gets out that you're serving alcohol, but there are lesser city agencies that will close you down in a minute with a padlock if neighbors report you, or even if your address appears in public too conspicuously. This kind of thing has been hard to do in NY. You need to be aware of far more things than I can even start to name from the Health Department to the Building Department to zoning code violations to Fire Department regulations to a myriad of other red tape, codes, rules, regulations, laws, etc.

Theoretically, if you were to do this, I'd suggest the Bowery for inexpensive chairs. Diners will sit in the chairs more than they'll look at them. My daughter bought her dining chairs at a restaurant chair place on the Bowery and we've sat through long meals on them. Hers aren't padded. The same model is even more comfortable with a cushioned seat. You'll have to decide if you want tablecloths. The upkeep isn't going to be cheap, but the use of tablecloths with a mat under the cloth will allow you to use cheaper tables effectively. I'd start my search on the Bowery for everything you think you might need and move to other sources only when the Bowery fails. A slight difference in price becomes much greater when you start to buy in quantity and that applies to tables as well as dishes and utensils.

[robert40]

What a fascinating thread.  Is this legal though, don't you have to have like health department licenses and the like to serve food commercially?

Also, one thing Daniel has yet to answer and is highly pertinent, is how much he is looking to charge for a meal.  Is this going to be casual, family-style meals, or more StudioKitchen tasting menus.  With all due respect, I think trying to put out tasting menus on Shola's level is far beyond the reach of most of the eG community (chefg excluded).

Also, is this meant to be a profit-making venture or simply a side-hobby?

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Not to get off topic but you would likely be surprised (I know I was) to know that a few of the very top chefs in the country are members of Egullet other then chefg. They just choose to remain anonymous.

[herbacidal]

You're likely to fly well below the ATF radar, but much less likely to avoid city and state agencies. Certainly you'll run afoul of the SLA if word gets out that you're serving alcohol, but there are lesser city agencies that will close you down in a minute with a padlock if neighbors report you, or even if your address appears in public too conspicuously. This kind of thing has been hard to do in NY. You need to be aware of far more things than I can even start to name from the Health Department to the Building Department to zoning code violations to Fire Department regulations to a myriad of other red tape, codes, rules, regulations, laws, etc.

Studiokitchen is BYOB. Neighbors don't complain because there isn't loud noise playing (usually Miles Davis/Coltrane/soft jazz), no more than 10 guests at a time, and (to the best of my knowledge) currently only 2-3 times a week (formerly, it would have been at most 5 times a week I imagine, and that would be pushing it. More likely then 2-4 times a week.)

Theoretically, if you were to do this, I'd suggest the Bowery for inexpensive chairs. Diners will sit in the chairs more than they'll look at them. My daughter bought her dining chairs at a restaurant chair place on the Bowery and we've sat through long meals on them. Hers aren't padded. The same model is even more comfortable with a cushioned seat. You'll have to decide if you want tablecloths. The upkeep isn't going to be cheap, but the use of tablecloths with a mat under the cloth will allow you to use cheaper tables effectively. I'd start my search on the Bowery for everything you think you might need and move to other sources only when the Bowery fails. A slight difference in price  becomes much greater when you start to buy in quantity and that applies to tables as well as dishes and utensils.

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Interesting idea as far as placemat+tablecloth+table combination as described.

Definitely price everything out and figure out what works best for your situation.

As far as the menu, you could have a set menu per night. No choices, but people know ahead of time. Just a thought.

Since I'm assuming you're doing this as a sideline, start off with once a week or less just to see how you like it.

[Bux]

Just to be clear, I was thinking of a white linen or cotton tablecloth over a felt or other such mat covering the entire table. That way, the table itself could have a rather raw fir plywood top.

I'm a fan of places that serve a set menu. However it offends some others. It's certainly the way to achieve an economy and to offer dinner at a bargain price to those who are willing to pay to basically eat in someone else's home if the food is good enough. There are many of those around and some of them may even prefer the chachet of an underground restaurant.

[johnnyd]

One is a loft with really great space but a crappy kitchen.

Lofts rock. Earlier, you mentioned your budget was not toooo much of a problem. Why not upgrade the gear, dude?