Women Can't Cook

[Laksa]

  So he IS being sexist. Just checking.

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Saying "men can't cook" would be just as sexist. But it won't get anywhere near as much attention.

The reason we get so riled up about Ramsey's statement is because we acknowledge that cooking has traditionally been done by women.

Edited October 25, 2005 by Laksa (log)

[PopsicleToze]

  So he IS being sexist. Just checking.

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Saying "men can't cook" is just as sexist. But it won't get anywhere near as much attention.

The reason we get so riled up about Ramsey's statement is because we acknowledge that cooking has traditionally been done by women.

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I don't know. That's what we've been told, but I'm not so sure. The best (noted) chefs have traditionally been male. I cook to please and nurture people. I'm not sure if the "best" chefs were not taught by their mothers!!

It's very easy for me. If I want someone to feel better, I cook for them. If they already feel good, then that's a bonus. We get to share something very nice. I like that.

Rhonda

[Gifted Gourmet]

  So he IS being sexist. Just checking.

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Saying "men can't cook" is just as sexist.

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Anyone who says anything about one specific gender in these times is branding him/herself as ignorant.

To generalize is the mark of one's personal foolishness .. but it gets more PR for the Ramsay "image", no?

If he cooks so well, why bother with this meaningless argumentative stuff?

[shelora]

Although the Telegraph article points out that the chef's comments "might come as a shock to Ramsay's wife, Tana, who cooks for their four young children in a separate kitchen at home", in fact, Ramsay has been deriding his wife's abilities in the kitchen for years. This from a Telegraph interview in May 2004:

"Tana is banished from his £500,000 kitchen in their Wandsworth home (she has a smaller, MFI version upstairs). Why is that, I ask? "Because she might ruin it! She might burn things. God knows what havoc she could wreak," he says, looking genuinely aghast.

"The next thing you know she would be coming up with recipes for Claridge's menu. It would read: 'Such and such, by Mrs Tana Ramsay.' No f------ way. I am the chef, this is my world. She is a school teacher."

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Wow. I'm impressed. Through and through, a real prick.

[Genny]

I'm not sure I have anything enlightening to add to this discussion, but I'll say this. I have a respect/hate opinion of GR. He is top of his game, abusive, caring, and a total prick. Polarizing is the word. I think that the article was just a bit of fluff to promote his new program. Is he sexist? Sure, why not, he's lots of other uncomplimentary things as well. Is the program going to be successful? Likely. But my guess is that as much of an ass as he comes off here, it is largely the reporter's slant, not a whole lot of this was quoted. Generalizations.

And, if he behaves with the participants in this program the way he has on his restaurant make-over show, the BBC program where he goes and cooks with an experienced home cook, or even as he was with Elsie from Hell's Kitchen, this could be an interesting program that shows his softer side.

So lets not get our collective panties in a bunch. Yes, overall women cook less than their mothers, grandmothers, etc. They don't have to cook now. Goodness knows my mom only did it because no one else would and we couldn't afford to eat out. Yes, it is likely that more men cook at home. It is more acceptable now. Gender roles have changed a lot in the last 30 years. Something to celebrate!

So cook if you want to. Don't if you don't. I don't care, as long as you keep out of my kitchen, 'cuz it's my domain!

[Carrot Top]

I could care less what he does or says. Just as long as he keeps that tongue out of any newspaper I have to look at.

[inny]

I could care less what he does or says. Just as long as he keeps that tongue out of any newspaper I have to look at.    

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Someone should have really posted a warning with that link. It scared me... and I like Ramsay.

[R Washburn]

I always thought women excelled at cooking, but very few of them were good Chefs. Why wouldn't women be good cooks?

[Carrot Top]

I mean really.

I've already learned how to put my own gas in the car.

What more does Gordie want from me?

Tell him to go poach his own damn quenelles.

[BryanZ]

If I may add a little bit more this discussion in Ramsay's defense, let me recount an anecdote from yesterday evening. What follows is an exact transcript of a brief conversation between myself and an otherwise well-rounded, wealthy, and intelligent, Duke student who comes from a relatively large and traditional family.

19 year-old girl: Hey, what'd you have for dinner tonight?

Me: I just broiled a steak I picked up this weekend and ate that with some caramelized onions, aspragus, and spiced glazed carrots.

19 year-old girl: Wow, I had my leftover Domino's pizza and some leftover Chinese delivery. I wish I knew how to cook.

Me: I hate you.

Besides my revealing my inherent food snobbery, what does this conversation show? Mainly, it shows that the simple operations boiling and sauteeing vegetables and broiling a steak are outside of the realm of many a well-educated and intelligent young woman. If this is the trend among cultured and well-traveled young women (and men) in America and Europe, then I shudder to predict the cooking prowess of young women who grew up eating McDonalds and think that the epitome of Mexican food is Taco Bell. Perhaps I'm missing something, but Ramsay's statement was 100% accurate.

In reference to Ramsay's banning his wife from his 500,000 euro kitchen, I don't blame him. Would you want some simpleton driving around your $650,000 supercar? I think not. I don't let anyone drive my car, I'm not going to give you free reign over my kitchen (and I assure you neither of those are even remotely close to 500,000 euros).

To the people who get in a hissyfit over Ramsay's supposedly inflamatory remarks, give me a break. He's a guy who tells it like it is, and his standing in his industry gives him just about every right to. The multitude of posters on this board, both men and women, who agree with him are evidence that rationality still exists in this world.

Edited to add: Of the few girls I know who say they can cook, most of them say they learned to do so for their boyfriends (or, even worse, because their boyfriends told them to learn). To me, giving into traditional gender roles is a hell of a lot more sexist and offensive.

Edited October 26, 2005 by BryanZ (log)

[*Deborah*]

In reference to Ramsay's banning his wife from his 500,000 euro kitchen, I don't blame him.  Would you want some simpleton driving around your $650,000 supercar?  I think not.  I don't let anyone drive my car, I'm not going to give you free reign over my kitchen (and I assure you neither of those are even remotely close to 500,000 euros).

To the people who get in a hissyfit over Ramsay's supposedly inflamatory remarks, give me a break.  He's a guy who tells it like it is, and his standing in his industry gives him just about every right to  The multitude of posters n this board, both men and women, who agree with him are evidence that rationality still exists in this world.

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Oh, I see, you are the sort of person who would marry a "simpleton" and let her bear your four children but not drive your car or cook in your kitchen?

Very rational.

[BryanZ]

In reference to Ramsay's banning his wife from his 500,000 euro kitchen, I don't blame him.  Would you want some simpleton driving around your $650,000 supercar?  I think not.  I don't let anyone drive my car, I'm not going to give you free reign over my kitchen (and I assure you neither of those are even remotely close to 500,000 euros).

To the people who get in a hissyfit over Ramsay's supposedly inflamatory remarks, give me a break.  He's a guy who tells it like it is, and his standing in his industry gives him just about every right to  The multitude of posters n this board, both men and women, who agree with him are evidence that rationality still exists in this world.

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Oh, I see, you are the sort of person who would marry a "simpleton" and let her bear your four children but not drive your car or cook in your kitchen?

Very rational.

←

It's a matter of demonstrated ability. If my wife can outcook, outdrive, outanything me, more power to her. But if we are assuming Ramsay's belief that the average woman is not as good of a cook as her mother and grandmother, then I'm going to tell her to relax and not worry about it or, if she wants, work her ass off to learn from me of someone else better than her. I respect my food and the culinary arts and don't intend to eat Domino's and Applebee's Curbside Pick-Up.

[Megan Blocker]

If I may add a little bit more this discussion in Ramsay's defense, let me recount an anecdote from yesterday evening.  What follows is an exact transcript of a brief conversation between myself and an otherwise well-rounded, wealthy, and intelligent, Duke student who comes from a relatively large and traditional family.

19 year-old girl: Hey, what'd you have for dinner tonight?

Me: I just broiled a steak I picked up this weekend and ate that with some caramelized onions, aspragus, and spiced glazed carrots.

19 year-old girl: Wow, I had my leftover Domino's pizza and some leftover Chinese delivery.  I wish I knew how to cook.

Me: I hate you.

Besides my revealing my inherent food snobbery, what does this conversation show?  Mainly, it shows that the simple operations boiling and sauteeing vegetables and broiling a steak are outside of the realm of many a well-educated and intelligent young woman.  If this is the trend among cultured and well-traveled young women (and men) in America and Europe, then I shudder to predict the cooking prowess of young women who grew up eating McDonalds and think that the epitome of Mexican food is Taco Bell.  Perhaps I'm missing something, but Ramsay's statement was 100% accurate. 

In reference to Ramsay's banning his wife from his 500,000 euro kitchen, I don't blame him.  Would you want some simpleton driving around your $650,000 supercar?  I think not.  I don't let anyone drive my car, I'm not going to give you free reign over my kitchen (and I assure you neither of those are even remotely close to 500,000 euros).

To the people who get in a hissyfit over Ramsay's supposedly inflamatory remarks, give me a break.  He's a guy who tells it like it is, and his standing in his industry gives him just about every right to.  The multitude of posters on this board, both men and women, who agree with him are evidence that rationality still exists in this world.

Edited to add: Of the few girls I know who say they can cook, most of them say they learned to do so for their boyfriends (or, even worse, because their boyfriends told them to learn).  To me, giving into traditional gender roles is a hell of a lot more sexist and offensive.

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Who are these people? I really know no one in my circle (male or female) who just CAN'T cook. Plenty who don't, but none who can't. There's a big difference. Not sure which is worse, actually...

And why is it sadder if a woman can't cook than if a man can't? The simple fact that we're all waiting longer to get married these days means that, male or female, it's going to mean a lot more Lean Cuisines and take-out if we sit around and wait to get together with someone who cooks better than we do. Sad for all genders, at least those who have to eat.

The conversation you had would be just as sad had it been with a man, yes? And, in my experience, just as likely.

[Daniel]

I mean really.

I've already learned how to put my own gas in the car.

What more does Gordie want from me?

Tell him to go poach his own damn quenelles.

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Mmmmm quenelles.. Might have to make some of those...

[Daniel]

If I may add a little bit more this discussion in Ramsay's defense, let me recount an anecdote from yesterday evening.  What follows is an exact transcript of a brief conversation between myself and an otherwise well-rounded, wealthy, and intelligent, Duke student who comes from a relatively large and traditional family.

19 year-old girl: Hey, what'd you have for dinner tonight?

Me: I just broiled a steak I picked up this weekend and ate that with some caramelized onions, aspragus, and spiced glazed carrots.

19 year-old girl: Wow, I had my leftover Domino's pizza and some leftover Chinese delivery.  I wish I knew how to cook.

Me: I hate you.

Besides my revealing my inherent food snobbery, what does this conversation show?  Mainly, it shows that the simple operations boiling and sauteeing vegetables and broiling a steak are outside of the realm of many a well-educated and intelligent young woman. 

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How does a conversation with one girl show anything about many young women?

Edited October 26, 2005 by Daniel (log)

[wkl]

That's a pretty broad brush you are using after speaking with only one girl.

I also imagine that conversation could have happened with many a guy ona college campus.

[Milagai]

if women can't cook, who cares?

let the men take over.

less work for us.

it can be our turn to sit back and make demands.

milagai

[*Deborah*]

In reference to Ramsay's banning his wife from his 500,000 euro kitchen, I don't blame him.  Would you want some simpleton driving around your $650,000 supercar?  I think not.  I don't let anyone drive my car, I'm not going to give you free reign over my kitchen (and I assure you neither of those are even remotely close to 500,000 euros).

To the people who get in a hissyfit over Ramsay's supposedly inflamatory remarks, give me a break.  He's a guy who tells it like it is, and his standing in his industry gives him just about every right to  The multitude of posters n this board, both men and women, who agree with him are evidence that rationality still exists in this world.

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Oh, I see, you are the sort of person who would marry a "simpleton" and let her bear your four children but not drive your car or cook in your kitchen?

Very rational.

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It's a matter of demonstrated ability. If my wife can outcook, outdrive, outanything me, more power to her. But if we are assuming Ramsay's belief that the average woman is not as good of a cook as her mother and grandmother, then I'm going to tell her to relax and not worry about it or, if she wants, work her ass off to learn from me of someone else better than her. I respect my food and the culinary arts and don't intend to eat Domino's and Applebee's Curbside Pick-Up.

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You're the one who used the word simpleton...nice backpedal attempt, in any case.

[BryanZ]

if women can't cook, who cares?

let the men take over.

less work for us.

it can be our turn to sit back and make demands.

milagai

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I echo these sentiments. It doesn't bother me that women are cooking less much more than it bothers me the average guy can't cook at all.

And to those who believe that I am using a "broad brush", I admittedly am. I was simply citing one example of many in which people (both men and women, mainly young though) express complete bafflement at my obsession with food. Generally, conversations in this same vein include me talking to the frat boy who eat dried ramen and washes it down with beer or the average girl who, in my experience, truly has no experience with cooking food. I am not exaggerating when people say "I can make toast," or "I can boil pasta," or "I love Kraft Easy Mac," or "I can make grilled cheese on my George Foreman Grill."

The only reason that Ramsay's (and my) statement could have been construed as inflammatory is because they generally focus on women. For me, the disgusting thing is women who cook becacuse their boyfriends expect to be served. And, more broadly, that America and Europe are losing out on their culinary traditions because of the movement toward fast/convenience food.

Trust me, there is NOTHING more attractive than a woman who can cook and who owns the kitchen. She cooks because she can and loves the sensuality of food, not because she thinks she has to subscribe to traditional gender roles But, unfotunately, women like this at my age are, in my experience, completely absent. eGullet is an exception but, even so, I don't know of any truly active college-aged female posters.

To each woman (or man) her own. Cook if you like, or don't. But I think that women who choose not to are missing out a big and rewarding part of life.

Edited to add: I did not use simpleton to imply that women are simpletons. But personally I wouldn't want some putz (man, woman or otherwise) using anything that I highly value without close supervision.

Edited October 26, 2005 by BryanZ (log)

[Laksa]

You know, I wonder how many young women of an earlier generation were experts in the kitchen pre-matrimony, and how many actually learnt to cook after getting married?

Edited to remove point already made.

Edited October 26, 2005 by Laksa (log)

[BryanZ]

You know, I wonder how many young women of an earlier generation were experts in the kitchen pre-matrimony, and how many actually learnt to cook after getting married?

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Probably not many, but raising a family necessitated that many women learn. Additionally, they probably had more experience in the kitchen, simply learning from their mothers.

There seems to be a major disconnect now, with big time push in convenience food that actually tastes [cringe] not [cringe] that bad. To me this seems counterintuitive since now one is able to procure better ingredients that were previously completely foreign only 10 years ago, but that is neither here nor there.

edit: I'm so enthralled with this discussion that my typing accuracy has rapidly degraded; sorry for all the edits, they're superficial typing changes.

Edited October 26, 2005 by BryanZ (log)

[Laksa]

I've been told by relatives that my mum was taught most of what she knows by her mother-in-law, but that's probably something unique to certain cultures, and it's a rarer occurrence today even in our culture.

[Rinsewind]

I have no scientific discoveries to back this one up, but here goes. I am a college professor. I spend a lot of time dealing with young adults. When I compare the basic life skills I had as an 18 year old compared with this group, I am often surprised. I left home with basic cooking skills-- and my mom hated to cook. I also knew how to do laundry, vacuum, dust, balance a checkbook, take out garbage, change a tire, mow the lawn, and so forth. I'm not saying I was perfect at any of these, but I had some basics, as did most of my friends, both male and female.

Many of my students don't have these skills. Why not? I can think of a number of reasons which may be a factor. First, children now spend WAY more scheduled time outside of school-- sports, playdates, all kinds of things. They often have relatively few responsibilities doing "chores"--which is how we learn many of those basic life skills. Second, you've heard of parents who seem to run all aspects of their kids lives, that's not everyone, but Lord knows I have plenty of students whose PARENTS call me when their kids get bad marks. In COLLEGE. Most of the parents I know with teenagers do nearly everything for them so they will "succeed"-- which ultimately handicaps them. Third, fewer people do much home cooking, so there's fewer opportunities for both young men and young women to see it in the first place.

I don't know if there's a difference between young men and young women in this-- but I have been told by male students that learning to cook really impresses the women, so they learn to do it. For young women, why should they learn a skill which they feel ties them to the traditional life in the home, when they are in school to learn a career? Finally, as someone mentioned above, I think there IS something to the fact that men, who are not thought of as home cooks, get accolades when they do cook (or take care of kids, clean the house, or take on other domestic responsibilities), when women seldom receive accolades for the same work. They are only noted when they don't do domestic work. There's something to be said for perception instead of actual facts.

BTW, as a (female) college professor who mostly socializes with other two career professional couples, pretty much no one cooks, even if they are able. There's a lot of take-out going on. I love to cook, but will confess that once or twice a week, when the kids need to be fed and both my husband and I do not get home until close to dinner time after picking up the kids, we get take-out or make something that involves a prepackaged item. Not proud of it, but that's just the way it goes.

[BryanZ]

Thank you, Rinsewind. I concur with most of your observations from my own personal experiences.

[Tess]

And why is it sadder if a woman can't cook than if a man can't?  The simple fact that we're all waiting longer to get married these days means that, male or female, it's going to mean a lot more Lean Cuisines and take-out if we sit around and wait to get together with someone who cooks better than we do.  Sad for all genders, at least those who have to eat.

The conversation you had would be just as sad had it been with a man, yes?  And, in my experience, just as likely.

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Exactly.

Hey, some people don't like to cook. And as weird as it seems in this day and age, the article and some of the posts here demonstrate that in some circles women are still *expected* to cook and men are not. Until those expectations become equal, I think women who refuse to get interested in cooking may be exercising some healthy self-preservation.