One day in Philly

[mrbigjas]

other italian byob possibilities:

pesto is a nice italian byob on south broad street.

porcini is at 21st & sansom.

la baia does a solid if unspectacular job at 17th & lombard.

bronzino is on 17th near spruce.

la viola is on 16th near spruce (good but tiny, packed in tables)

la locanda del ghiottone is down in old city and i had a great meal last time i was there.

trattoria lucca is a byob on passyunk ave just below broad--not sure of the exact address. if you go, get the fried mozz. it's amazingly good. i haven't been back there in a year or so... i gotta do that.

and katie didn't mention the address, but chickie's is at 10th & federal in south philly.

i would have no problem sending a tourist to geno's or pat's. i mean, sure there are better cheesesteaks, but they're not bad at all, and it's all part of the fun of visiting. i prefer geno's for a more consistent product on a regular basis.

[I_call_the_duck]

More Italian BYOs

Valentino’s on Rittenhouse, at 19th just south of Rittenhouse Square.

Valetnino’s at Pine & Juniper. If you're nice, they'll offer you some homemade wine, limoncello and chocolate liqueur.

These are, uncoincidentally, owned by the same people. I’ll admit that the food is not as spectacular as those mentioned above, but you will probably be able to get a reservation there, and the prices are reasonable.

Pumpkin at 17th and South. Not Italian, but a very nice BYO.

My cheesesteak preference is Jim’s on 4th and South.

[herbacidal]

other italian byob possibilities:

pesto is a nice italian byob on south broad street.

porcini is at 21st & sansom.

la baia does a solid if unspectacular job at 17th & lombard.

bronzino is on 17th near spruce.

la viola is on 16th near spruce (good but tiny, packed in tables)

la locanda del ghiottone is down in old city and i had a great meal last time i was there.

trattoria lucca is a byob on passyunk ave just below broad--not sure of the exact address.  if you go, get the fried mozz.  it's amazingly good.  i haven't been back there in a year or so... i gotta do that.

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Actually, my recommendations weren't aiming for Italian.

They were for South Philly.

I'm playing the percentages, and South Philly BYOBs are more likely to be accomodating to a 15 person table on Saturday.

But both Pesto and Lucca can be considerered in South Philly as well, so there's a good chance of getting in there. Also consider Mimosa, on 10th just north of South St.

[Gastro888]

<groan> No res. available for 15 on a Saturday night. <sighs> I tried. Hope spring eternal(ly foolish).

[KatieLoeb]

<groan>  No res. available for 15 on a Saturday night.  <sighs>  I tried.  Hope spring eternal(ly foolish).

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Of course you realize that without a lot of advance notice, a table for 15 is pretty much a no-can-do almost anywhere, right? Especially at prime time on a Saturday evening.

Have you called Ralph's Italian Restaurant? (side note - Warning! The link plays the theme music from The Godfather ) It's not the greatest, but it *is* quintissential red gravy South Philly fare, and they have an upstairs that might be able to accomodate a larger party better than some of the BYOBs mentioned that a table of 15 would literally take up half their seating.

[philadining]

The White Dog Cafe could probably fit a group of 15, even on a saturday, but their dinner menu is a little pricey for what you've defined: entrees get into the mid-20s. (menu at the link above) and they are NOT a BYOB, so you'd be paying for drinks. They have a good beer and wine selection though...

i don't know how they are about last-minute groups, but they have the space...

[Gastro888]

Hi y'all! So, here's a brief report on my trip to Philly.

First of all, major props to herbacidal for being a wonderful and gracious host. Actually, he wasn't going to be our host but he ended up showing all of us a great time in Philly. (His nomination for sainthood should be in shortly...)

So here we go with my food tour of Philly:

Friday night: Pat's King of Steaks

My friend and I chose Pat's over Gino's simply based on the fact more people were eating and waiting in line at Pat's. She commented on how Gino's looks like a casino with all the neon lighting (it's a good thing - made it easier for us to find the location!). We split a mushroom pepper cheesesteak Cheese Wiz with and a small order of fries.

Ooooh...I should've listened to you guys and gone to Jim's. The bread was good but the steak wasn't that flavorful, the veggies not really sauteed and they skimped on the Wiz. It tasted like something I could've gotten at Jerry's Subs (a chain fast food sub joint) back home. (Let the flaming begin!)

However, the fries were tasty. They had some sort of batter on them, like what you would find on an onion ring. Quite good and fresh from the frier.

Saturday morning:

Wawa Kenya AA Coffee and a Wing Wah white lotus double yolk mooncake (only way to go, none of that non-yolk mooncake b.s.). Ai, the coffee was like water. herbacidal mentioned that I might've gone to a bad Wawa.

For lunch, we were blessed with the help of our teammate's father who did the hoagie run for us. He went to Wawa and got an assortment of Italian, turkey, veggie and roast beef hoagies with the works. I had 1/2 Italian and 1/2 veggie.

They were really tasty! I was surprised at the quality. Maybe it was because I was starving but I really enjoyed the hoagies and the pickles on the side. ('Scuse my ignorance as I've no clue what they're called but they were the neon yellow pepper pickles and the sweet bell pepper pickles.) Yum.

Munched on Fuiji appled and preserved plums throughout the day as well.

Saturday dinner:

After some much welcomed help from herbacidal (thank you!) we got the team on its way and some of us went to Porcini for dinner.

DO NOT GO TO PORCINI. To paraphase DonRockwell, they suck ventworm nuts.

Ai ya. First of all, they were 20 minutes late in honoring our (albeit last minute) reservation. And the place is like a shoebox - tiny and cramped.

Second, the service was HORRIBLE. They were so rude and obnoxious and would not and could not do their job properly. Why did we not complain? They were the owners (we think) and it would've been pointless. Also, we were tired and hungry and just wanted to eat. This is the primary reason why I wouldn't suggest this place to anyone.

Example: I politely asked the waiter for water and bread (and explained to him that we were incredibly hungry due to racing) he refused to give us either until we placed our ENTIRE meal order. Also, he refused to place the anitpasti order while we were deciding on our entree. It would be that much harder for you why? He also snapped at my friend when he asked for more water ("YEAH, I'm gettin' to it!" - this was after we placed our order).

Third, the food was mediocre. I expected better quality food for the prices they were charging. ($15.50 for a verison of pasta carbonara and you're being skimpy on the portion? C'mon!). The antipasti was poorly executed - the only thing that saved the mussels were the tomatoes. In fact, the tomatoes were the only good thing about the mussels, the bruchetta, the grilled mushrooms with cheese and the calamari salad. (They should thank their tomato supplier...)

The entrees were better, however, they were incredibly stingy with the portions. I know it's not the norm for real Italian restaurants to serve large portions but Porcini doesn't strike me as a high end restaurant or as an authentic Italian restaurant. So it doesn't have a leg to stand on in that regard. I did enjoy their verison of pasta carbonara - the pasta tasted homemade and was quite light and delicate. The sauce was tasty if a tad heavy on the cream instead of percorino cheese sauce they advertised on the menu.

(Don't bother going there. Go to the sushi place across the street where the friendly 8 year old kid will ring you up after you've selected some great prepacked sushi.)

Capogiro's saved the evening! Woo hoo! Oh wow, that place is great. Everyone loved the gelato and enjoyed their dessert. Around the table we had: Thai coconut, pistachio, burnt sugar, baci, cappucino, apple Caldavas, lemon, and raspberry. Raspberry was the group favorite.

Stay tuned for Sunday's review....

[mrbigjas]

DO NOT GO TO PORCINI.  To paraphase DonRockwell, they suck ventworm nuts. 

ouch. that sucks. i've had several really decent meals there, but the last was probably a year ago. too bad.

[Jeff L]

Hi y'all!  So, here's a brief report on my trip to Philly.

First of all, major props to herbacidal for being a wonderful and gracious host.  Actually, he wasn't going to be our host but he ended up showing all of us a great time in Philly.  (His nomination for sainthood should be in shortly...)

So here we go with my food tour of Philly:

Friday night:  Pat's King of Steaks

My friend and I chose Pat's over Gino's simply based on the fact more people were eating and waiting in line at Pat's.  She commented on how Gino's looks like a casino with all the neon lighting (it's a good thing - made it easier for us to find the location!).  We split a mushroom pepper cheesesteak Cheese Wiz with and a small order of fries.

Ooooh...I should've listened to you guys and gone to Jim's.    The bread was good but the steak wasn't that flavorful, the veggies not really sauteed and they skimped on the Wiz.  It tasted like something I could've gotten at Jerry's Subs (a chain fast food sub joint) back home.  (Let the flaming begin!)

However, the fries were tasty.  They had some sort of batter on them, like what you would find on an onion ring.  Quite good and fresh from the frier.

Saturday morning:

Wawa Kenya AA Coffee and a Wing Wah white lotus double yolk mooncake (only way to go, none of that non-yolk mooncake b.s.).  Ai, the coffee was like water.  herbacidal mentioned that I might've gone to a bad Wawa.

For lunch, we were blessed with the help of our teammate's father who did the hoagie run for us.  He went to Wawa and got an assortment of Italian, turkey, veggie and roast beef hoagies with the works.  I had 1/2 Italian and 1/2 veggie. 

They were really tasty!  I was surprised at the quality.  Maybe it was because I was starving but I really enjoyed the hoagies and the pickles on the side.  ('Scuse my ignorance as I've no clue what they're called but they were the neon yellow pepper pickles and the sweet bell pepper pickles.)  Yum.

Munched on Fuiji appled and preserved plums throughout the day as well. 

Saturday dinner:

After some much welcomed help from herbacidal (thank you!) we got the team on its way and some of us went to Porcini for dinner. 

DO NOT GO TO PORCINI.  To paraphase DonRockwell, they suck ventworm nuts. 

Ai ya.  First of all, they were 20 minutes late in honoring our (albeit last minute) reservation.  And the place is like a shoebox - tiny and cramped.

Second, the service was HORRIBLE.  They were so rude and obnoxious and would not and could not do their job properly.  Why did we not complain?  They were the owners (we think) and it would've been pointless.  Also, we were tired and hungry and just wanted to eat.  This is the primary reason why I wouldn't suggest this place to anyone.

Example: I politely asked the waiter for water and bread (and explained to him that we were incredibly hungry due to racing) he refused to give us either until we placed our ENTIRE meal order.  Also, he refused to place the anitpasti order while we were deciding on our entree.  It would be that much harder for you why?  He also snapped at my friend when he asked for more water ("YEAH, I'm gettin' to it!" - this was after we placed our order). 

Third, the food was mediocre.  I expected better quality food for the prices they were charging.  ($15.50 for a verison of pasta carbonara and you're being skimpy on the portion?  C'mon!).  The antipasti was poorly executed - the only thing that saved the mussels were the tomatoes.  In fact, the tomatoes were the only good thing about the mussels, the bruchetta, the grilled mushrooms with cheese and the calamari salad.  (They should thank their tomato supplier...)

The entrees were better, however, they were incredibly stingy with the portions.  I know it's not the norm for real Italian restaurants to serve large portions but Porcini doesn't strike me as a high end restaurant or as an authentic Italian restaurant.  So it doesn't have a leg to stand on in that regard.  I did enjoy their verison of pasta carbonara - the pasta tasted homemade and was quite light and delicate.  The sauce was tasty if a tad heavy on the cream instead of percorino cheese sauce they advertised on the menu.

(Don't bother going there.  Go to the sushi place across the street where the friendly 8 year old kid will ring you up after you've selected some great prepacked sushi.)

Capogiro's saved the evening!  Woo hoo!  Oh wow, that place is great.  Everyone loved the gelato and enjoyed their dessert.  Around the table we had: Thai coconut, pistachio, burnt sugar, baci, cappucino, apple Caldavas, lemon, and raspberry.  Raspberry was the group favorite.

Stay tuned for Sunday's review....

←

Sorry you had such an unpleasant experience at Porcini. Although I hate to admit it, it does help to know the owner/brothers who were in fact your servers for the evening. I've been going there since it opened and developed a nice friendship with them. I've also always had decent food but nothing astonishing or even anything I couldn't make at home. Just find it to be a nice local place and we never go on Saturday night.

You should have been warned about the cramped quarters. It is really uncomfortable, esp for a guy my size (over 6 feet) There is never an excuse for rudeness anywhere. They do have a table management issue there with the attitude that you should just want to wait for your table. They usually send people across the street for a drink.

Anyway, sorry you had a bad experience.

[Gastro888]

Thanks for your sympathy. The space wouldn't have been an issue if the service was polite, friendly and competent and the food good. For me, having grown up in the restaurant business and knowing what it takes to run an establishment, I was horrified that Porcini continues to be patronized considering how the brothers run their restaurant.

To be honest, I was afraid for our table to eat our entrees and drink our water after we got snapped at by the waiter. Yes, the service was THAT horrible.

[Jeff L]

Thanks for your sympathy.  The space wouldn't have been an issue if the service was polite, friendly and competent and the food good.  For me, having grown up in the restaurant business and knowing what it takes to run an establishment, I was horrified that Porcini continues to be patronized considering how the brothers run their restaurant. 

To be honest, I was afraid for our table to eat our entrees and drink our water after we got snapped at by the waiter.  Yes, the service was THAT horrible.

←

That is really bad and has never been our experience there. Did you say anything to them after the meal, not that it would change anything, but I always say something.

[Gastro888]

No, we didn't say anything after the meal. One, it would've been pointless as based on their behavior I doubt the complaint would've been well received.

(And I'd been up since 6am that morning dealing with coordinating the race, participating in the race and other stressful issues so I know it wouldn't have been pretty if the server decided to say something smart back to me.)

Two, I'm not a Philly native so it's not like I have to have that restaurant open to me as an option when I'm dining up there. Since it's a local place for you, I can see the benefit of maintaining some type of relationship or vested interest to improve service but for me, I cannot be bothered.

[Kobi]

ouch... hopefully Sunday saw some improvement, Gastro.

- kobi

[Gastro888]

Yeap, it was! Stay tuned...will write more later.

I've got some scallion oil chicken from Ocean City for lunch that I can't wait to try. Oh and I had a dan tat from Saint Honore's (sp?) bakery for breakfast. Yum!

[Daniel]

Out of curiosity. What did you tip the waiter at Porcini who has essentially ruined your meal with his unpleasantness and lack of manners?

Edited October 3, 2005 by Daniel (log)

[Gastro888]

I was tempted not to tip him at all but my foolishness got the better of me and I gave him 10%.

Gah, in hindsight, we shouldn't have tipped him. Ack well.

(I must learn to be more cruel in the future...)

[mrbigjas]

i always wuss out about that too, when i have that kind of experience. it's like, screw me over, will ya? well then you're only getting 16%, ya bastard!

i guess that's not much of a statement.

[KatieLoeb]

Gastro88:

Sorry you had such a bad experience in our fair city. Someone DEFINITELY should have warned you about Porcini being <ahem> cozy. It's like eating with the folks at the next table, whether you know them or not.

I've had some good meals there, with average service, but I can totally believe them copping an atty-tood with you. It's a tiny place that's literally run by the owners. There's probably only 2 or 3 other employees that aren't vested. Counterintuitively, they have chosen to believe this gives them license to be rude rather than be even more vigilant since they're literally on the front lines with the customers. Interesting choice on their part. I hope they have enough regulars to make it worthwhile. Even if other tables weren't treated as badly as yours, in a place that size, everyone saw and heard it. I'd be disinclined to revisit a restaurant I saw couldn't handle themselves civilly, even if it wasn't directed at me.

You still have to make it to Tony Luke's for a decent cheesesteak (Pat's & Geno's suck) and the porky goodness of a Roast Pork Italiano! It's right under I-95 so you might be able to do it on your swing out of town.

[Gastro888]

In hindsight, I should've been a complete b-ach and voiced my complaint and not left anything. I need to erase that gene of humanity I have. Dang it all!

[Jeff L]

In hindsight, I should've been a complete b-ach and voiced my complaint and not left anything.  I need to erase that gene of humanity I have.  Dang it all!

←

Isn't it weird how most of us react in similar situations? I have left say a 10% tip in place of my usual 20% or greater when zero tip would have been the correct call. Now is a really good time to remember that tipping is voluntary yet we all feel a stigma about leaving less than we perceive the service merits.

How did the word "TIP" originate? It is "To Insure Promptness". Didn't sound like any promptness was going on at Porcini the other night or any civility for that matter.

In any event Gastro, it is my hope, and I'm sure everyone on this forum, that you not judge our great city based on this inexcusable experience.

[Gastro888]

Wait, wait, wait! I'm not judging Philly based on my @#$! experience at Porcini! No, no, no. I'm judging the restaurant on its own (de)merits and I wouldn't be as ignorant to judge an entire city based on one lousy restaurant.

On the contrary, I enjoyed Philly (mostly b/c herbacidal was a great host!) and had a great time there. I definitely want to come back and have a real cheesesteak and a real hoagie.

[Gastro888]

Philly, continued.

Sunday morning:

After waking up from some much needed sleep, we headed from our hotel to HK Golden Phoenix for dim sum. Originally, some people wanted to eat at 10am but we ended up arriving around 10:30. The thing is with dim sum, ya gotta time it just right - not too early and not too late.

The dim sum was quite good - better than what we have in DC. I really enjoyed the steamed lotus paste buns and the chicken feet. Wow, those chicken feet were tender and tasty. The service was pleasant and my only complaint is that we should've arrived at 11am when the carts started to roll out. Oh and their dan tats fresh from the oven are good! Good grubbin'!

(I would say so far, Kim Phung in Montreal is the best on the East Coast but HK Golden Phoenix is good.)

[Gastro888]

Philly, con't.

Sunday afternoon:

After a good dim sum meal at HK Golden Phoenix, we headed over to a local BBQ shop so one of my friends could purchase roast duck and scallion oil chicken to take home. I can't remember the name of the location but the ducks looked gorgeous. (herbacidal, help! )

We split off into separate groups and hung out in CT. We had bubble tea (again, my memory fails me) and meandered around the streets, stopping at local bookstores. My friend's regular bubble tea with black tea was quite tasty - it was very subtle and it almost looked like it wasn't made with tea at all, the drink was almost white.

We had a late lunch at David's and ate:

Roast pork

Ginger and scallion lo mein

Sauteed ong choi with garlic

Roast duck

Ooooh. Yum. Yum. Yum. It was delish. Shoot, we should've gone to David's instead of Porcini! Dang it all! Everything was great. Simple and well executed.

We then split off again and I went to Di Bruno's near 17th and Chestnut. It's a lovely store but GAH, so pricey. 2.29 for Honest Tea?!?! Holy moly. Lovely to look at but I didn't buy anything there. Well, I lie. I brought a cup of coffee there. It was the complete opposite of the Wawa coffee I had the day before. 'Twas like battery acid, that thing was too strong for me that afternoon. I could've used it Saturday morning to compliment my mooncake that I had for breakfast.

Ok, I admit, I'm like Goldlocks when it comes to my coffee...

Still more to come...

[I_call_the_duck]

Was the duck place on 10th, just north of Arch? All they sell are BBQ meats. YUM!! My fav.

[Gastro888]

Ai, I don't remember, unfortunately. All they had were roasted meat and they did offer Vietnamese rice dishes (com) on the weekdays. It was very small and it was Viet/Chinese. GAH! Bad memory.